HD-200 1080HD stutters using Network via Powerline

[redman]

Hi,
I have the HD-PVR recording 1080 files onto the server.
One HD-200 is connected at 100MB directly through a hub and plays the files with no problem (so therefore my server looks like it can manage to get them playing).

Upstairs I have installed LAN over powerline, and am getting a very strong signal (it says 135MB). But any playback on this unit stutters every second or so for a fraction. Basically making in unwatchable.
Any recording setting below 1080 is fine through this network.

Has anyone got HD 1080 streaming on LAN over powerline?
Any settings or things I can set to help the buffering, etc on the other box?

Any other advice or suggestions for stuff to look at?

Cheers
Chris

[tedson]

I'm starting to think the problem with powerline and wireless N isnt the through put but the stableness of the connection. Those types of connections have a lot of jitter (the packets don't arrive in a steady well times stream.) Usually, streaming applications have good sized jitter buffers to take care of that problem, but I'm starting to think Sage doesn't.

Anyway, the net result is you can get really good throughput and still have a pretty unstable connection.

[Narflex]

We've got pretty good buffering on the HD200; so there shouldn't be a problem playing stuff back if the throughput is there. Have you checked to see how much bandwidth is actually being utilized by looking at the TaskManager on your server while its streaming?

Also; make sure you're using a V6.5 server. We significantly optimized the streaming to extenders/placeshifters in that version compared to V6.4. The new code deals with latency issues in connections much better (although there really shouldn't be any on a LAN....unless it's dropping a lot of packets and not retrying them quick enough....but that's an OS thing....I know Vista used to have issuse with that)

[redman]

Hi Narflex,
I am running the latest 6.5.3 beta, and have updated to the 20081219 0 firmware on the HD-200 units. I have them both set to PAL (but have tried also on NTSC setting)

On m Server (XP) I am utilizing about 6-7% of the LAN, and about 1-3% of CPU. My router also shows no dropped packets.

The recordings play fine when connected directly through the hub, its only through the lan over powerline i have the problem, although it tells me I have a 135MB connection.

Is there anyway to find out what network bandwidth and throughput is being experienced by the HD-200? i.e. to find out what is happening on the client side of the connection?

Cheers
Chris

[stanger89]

You might want to try iperf and see what kind of throughput you actually get.

[wayner]

I tried powerline networking but I was never able to get sustained speeds above 5Mbps. Can you try putting a laptop where your HD-200 would go and transfer a large file watching Task Manager - this should give you an idea how fast you can get.

I will be returning my powerline adapters as I have bought some ethernet over coax adapters (Motorola NIM-100 - I got 3 adapters for $88) on eBay and this is supposed to be much more reliabe.

[Sparhawk6]

This is disappointing to hear. I am renting a 100 year old house that is not wired with Cat5. I have considered purchasing the HD200 and using powerline adapters, but I keep hearing that they just don't do the job. I don't want to experience ANY skipping while watching TV. Bummer.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

This is disappointing to hear. I am renting a 100 year old house that is not wired with Cat5. I have considered purchasing the HD200 and using powerline adapters, but I keep hearing that they just don't do the job. I don't want to experience ANY skipping while watching TV. Bummer.

You should consider wireless-N bridges. I'm in an old apartment building, and didn't think powerline adapters would do the job. I picked up a couple 5ghz wireless N bridges and they work pretty well.

[redman]

I used jperf to monitor network between sage server and the end of the powerline network (actually using Aztech) as stranger89 suggested.

You could see right away that the TCP test was dropping the transmission every 1.5-2 seconds down to 0, then back up.
If i did the same test with UDP as the protocol, then it didn't drop the transmission at all, although there was some jitter.

Is there any way to get the HD-200 to use UDP instead of TCP? Is this something that might make a difference, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

[stanger89]

Actually I'm guessing the same problem exists with UDP, just isn't evident. UDP doesn't have the "acking" to confirm that packets are recieved. It's probable that stuff is getting dropped with UDP just like TCP, but UDP just doesn't "know" it, and keeps on blindly shoving data down the pipe.

[mdnttoker]

This was my problem with Powerline.

I actually sent in some network traces of my MVP booting over powerline to Sage, and the end verdict was that some critical packets were getting corrupted, and killed the bootup.

Watching videos over powerline worked fine, as the small amount of corruption wasn't that noticeable (would boot over wireless, then connect powerline for higher video throughput).

Ended up going with NIM100's, which so far don't work that well with HD...back to the drawing board....

-M

[redman]

Okay, stranger; that makes sense.
Makes me wonder why 720 recordings can stream ok, if it is dropping the connection (or whatnot), rather than just a max out of bandwidth. Wouldn't this be noticeable for all recordings then?
Is there something different between 720 files and 1080 files apart from size?

Cheers
Chris

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by redman

Wouldn't this be noticeable for all recordings then?
Is there something different between 720 files and 1080 files apart from size?

The lower the bitrate, the more of the stream you can send/buffer in any given time period. Probably just a case of 720p being just enough smaller to fall under that critical threshold.

[tedson]

I'm using GenfenTV ethernet over Coax boxes and they work well even for HD. There are two extenders on my coax network and I can run HD streams to both of them at the same time. However, our house is new and all the coax comes back to a box near the server, so I'm sure my coax lines are very clean.

[RedCoat999]

I use the powerline option and was not having any issues playing mkv, mp4 etc movies until I tried the Movie Showtime plugin and watched a couple of 1080P trailers which had stuttering. 720P are fine for me. Now seeing this thread I know why....nuts

[redman]

Still trying to figure out a way to get video working anyway except via direct cable.

I think i have reached my own tech knowledge with this question: If I had 2 powerline adapters connected to a server hub, and two reciprocal adapters connected to a client hub, which was also connected to an HD-200.

Would the HD-200 share the 2 powerline connections to the server hub and thus the bandwidth would be shared between them, or would it only select a single powerline connection?

Cheers
Chris

[stanger89]

Only if you got some really nice switches that support port bonding. That would cost more than getting someone to run a wire.

[redman]

OK.
So final outcome: With current technology, etc. Only real option I have right now, is to copy shows i want in the other room to a portable HDD, and then use the HD200 in standalone mode.
Not optimal, (60% WAF), but better than nothing.

Thanks all.

[davephan]

You might also check to make sure the needed ports are open between the upstairs HD 200 in the hub, if the hub is really a switch. If I do not have the needed ports open for my MVP units, sometimes I have intermittent stuttering (I do not have HD 200 units, maybe they also have port requirements) .

Another thing you could try if you have a long cable is to try running a long cable to the upstairs HD 200 to find out if that eliminates the stuttering on the upstairs HD 200. Or, swap the two HD 200 units and see if the replaced upstairs HD 200 unit still stutters, to help verify that the powerline network device is causing the stuttering.

Dave

[redman]

SOLVED!!
After pretty much trying everything i could think of, and then giving upwith the above solution; i had an idea yesterday to try something.

I switched the device to a different point upstairs, and amazingly, I am now streaming 1080 full HD from the HD-PVR to the HD-200.

...and there was much rejoicing...


thanks everyone for their suggestions. Cant believe the solution was the simplest.