System control help (Remotes)

[stanger89]

Ok, so I've been muddling along for a while with a multitude of remotes for my HT system:
Anthem AVM20 remote
BenQ W5000 remote (behind)
Streamzap remote
STP-HD200 remote
Pioneer DV-C36 remote
Xbox 360 HD DVD remote
Lutron IR Dimmer remote (behind)

And thus far it's "worked", I can pile all the remotes around me and I know what to use to do what operations. I'd like to simplify it but so far it's not been required.

Well all that is changing, I'm building some cabinets for the back part of my theater which will become part of a "bar" area and I'll be moving all my equipment that is no in front, under the screen, into the cabinet, probably in a Middle Atlantic SRSR rack (that's the plan at least).

Obviously this will cause a problem because not only will the equipment be behind the seating area, there will be no line of sight to it. Thus controlling the system will be impossible with the current "pile-of-remotes" method.

So, I'm looking for suggestions for a solution.

Bare minimum, I could probably get away with an IR distribution system and my current remotes, but if I'm going through the effort might as well consolidate everything.

Harmony's are basically out. I've tried them in the past and I don't like them. I think I could deal with the software programming, but they just feel "cheap". I don't like the tiny plastic buttons, and they layout is not very good. The only one that looks like it might "feel" OK is the One, but it's not RF so I'd need to add another $100-200 in IR distribution to it's cost...

Next option is maybe a URC Digital R50+IR repeaters. On the plus side it's a URC, and I've heard nothing but good things about URCs, the layout looks good, but it doesn't seem to leave much room for expansion. And I'm not sure about the on-remote-programming.

Only other option I'm really considering is an MX-880/900/980 with an RF module or maybe an MSC400. I think this woud be the ideal solution, since my AVM20 and W5000 both support serial control (which the MSC400 supports).

The biggest issue is it seems to be rather iffy getting the URC software. Anyhoo, enough rambling, time to open it to the audience for comments

[KarylFStein]

Well, I went with the Harmony 890 because I didn't like the other RF remotes at the time, (and I got a really good deal on eBay for a new one). It has stood up to the abuse of two kids really well except recently I had to take it apart to clean dried (sticky) apple juice off the contacts. I haven't really tried any other remotes, though, except for way back I had a Firefly and Girder. Compared to that setup, the Harmony is a dream to configure and use. But again, I haven't used any of the others you mentioned.

[Para]

I use a URC RFS200 PowerPak Bundle w/ MasterControl which would easily do what you want.

But.... it is not as sexy as the R50 digital . I looked up the 50 and I like the looks.

The price on the RFS200 is about half of the R50 though, so you might give it a look. I have been very pleased with it.

Amazon has them on sale every now and then:
http://www.amazon.com/RFS200-PowerPa.../dp/B000FL9E6U

[jptaz]

I just got a the Harmony 890 and it has worked pretty well. It was easy to configure and I have several one click button activities for watching Sage or Cable on either my TV or projector.

Once in a while it has trouble turning on the media extender, but it has a really nice on screen help system for getting the components corrected. I don't think that I have the IR repeaters place in the right spot on some of my devices. All of the devices are in my cabinet so I am using the extender. I got it at amazon, of course their was a $50 rebate when I ordered mine:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmo...0823051&sr=1-1

John

[w84no1]

I went the cheap route to start out with. I use the triangle ir extenders like these X-10 POWERMID REMOTE EXTENDER

It allowed me to get the equipment in the other room with out having to buy a remote right away. After I got all of it working with my pile of existing remotes, I purchased a learning remote. Now I have everything working with a URC9960 - Kameleon. I have less than $50 invested in the remote and the ir extender. And I still have the freedom to select another IR remote when I can afford one !

The only downside with the cheap ir extenders is that they are very ugly.

[stanger89]

Thinking about it some more, I mostly use the remote for the source I'm actively using, but there are a few commands that I need to punchthrough always, those are volume on my AVM20 and the various AR modes on my W5000.

So thinking about it, I guess I'd design my conceptual remote like this:

• Watch TV/Videos
  • Switch to HD200 Inputs
  • Switch to HD200 remote config (with punchthrough for AR/Volume)
• Watch Blu-ray
  • Switch to HTPC inputs
  • Switch to HTPC/Streamzap remote config (w/ above punchthrough)
• etc...

One thing that always kills "universal" remotes for me is having to constantly switch which remote it's emulating (like having to switch from source to projector to change AR).

[jptaz]

Stanger,

The harmony 890 does not emulate just one remote at a time...For example in every activity the volume, mute, etc always hits my receiver, while the other buttons are mapped to the logical device for the activity. Each activity can have all the buttons mapped to any device and function. I am assuming you are more referring to the simple universal remotes.

John

[KarylFStein]

Originally Posted by jptaz

Stanger,

The harmony 890 does not emulate just one remote at a time...For example in every activity the volume, mute, etc always hits my receiver, while the other buttons are mapped to the logical device for the activity. Each activity can have all the buttons mapped to any device and function. I am assuming you are more referring to the simple universal remotes.

John

FYI, the Harmony *can* be used in "device" mode too. So if you really want to change the volume level on a device then you can. But in normal "activity" use, hitting the volume always controls my receiver and hitting aspect controls the display (no aspect button, but you can put what you want in the LCD menu).

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Thinking about it some more, I mostly use the remote for the source I'm actively using, but there are a few commands that I need to punchthrough always, those are volume on my AVM20 and the various AR modes on my W5000.

So thinking about it, I guess I'd design my conceptual remote like this:

• Watch TV/Videos
  • Switch to HD200 Inputs
  • Switch to HD200 remote config (with punchthrough for AR/Volume)
• Watch Blu-ray
  • Switch to HTPC inputs
  • Switch to HTPC/Streamzap remote config (w/ above punchthrough)
• etc...

One thing that always kills "universal" remotes for me is having to constantly switch which remote it's emulating (like having to switch from source to projector to change AR).

I know you tend to dislike the Harmony remotes. One of the things you need to get used to is that it is activity-based. Check out the Harmony One. That actually has a better design and better buttons. If you use the device button you can treat it like any other remote and choose your device and choose exactly what command you're using. But the whole point of activity-based is choose what you want to do(Play DVD or Watch TV). Watch TV and it will talk to the devices it needs to. Watch TV turns on the TV and sets it to Input 2, turns on the receiver and sets it to TV, turns on the HD200. Now it controls the HD200 but hit volume up/down and it is controlling the receiver. Play DVD sets it to Input 1 on the TV, turns on the Blu-Ray, switches receiver to DVD input, turns off the HD200. (Or not turn it off-up to you and how you want to use it.) Sometimes the configuration software can be a PITA but if you have the timing correct (delays between the command) it will work fine. I have it down to about a 5 minute config and maybe one or two test tries after the config on a new remote or adding a new device. And that's between the 880, the 520 and the 550. It's the pre-planning and the configuration that will get you thinking and pay off in the end. I know-I have to set it up for the wife to use. Her biggest issue is in keeping the remote pointed at the devices long enough to finish its sequence. I have her set the remote on the arm of the couch and leave it there as she presses the Watch TV button. I tell her not to touch it until you see the SageTV screen come on.

Gerry

[hockeyfan]

Man that's a lot of remotes. I was getting irritated having 3.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jptaz

Stanger,

The harmony 890 does not emulate just one remote at a time...For example in every activity the volume, mute, etc always hits my receiver, while the other buttons are mapped to the logical device for the activity. Each activity can have all the buttons mapped to any device and function. I am assuming you are more referring to the simple universal remotes.

John

Yeah, I understand that, I did actually have a Harmony 360 at one time. That comment wasn't specifically for Harmony, but more general. Most cheap universals just condense multiple remotes into one hardware device, and I know the harmony isn't like that.

But (and this is beside the point because I don't like the feel of Harmony's) but can you stick arbitrary "buttons" from any device into one particular activity? I know volume always has punchthrough, but could you, for example, add an AR mode toggle button that always controls the projector from any activity?

Originally Posted by gplasky

I know you tend to dislike the Harmony remotes.

I really want to like them, but I've never been satisfied with the feel of them. They just don't make you want to use them, at least not to me. I don't like the tiny plastic buttons for example.

One of the things you need to get used to is that it is activity-based.

That's really what I'm looking for, but I'm not sure (in their current form) if they're configurable enough (arbitrary punchthrough for example).

Check out the Harmony One. That actually has a better design and better buttons.

Yeah, I saw that, the biggest problem with the One is that it's not RF, so I'd need to add an IR repeater system to the cost of the One, which gets it really close to the cost of (for example) an MX900+MRF350 combo.

Of course the other issue is my projector and lights are behind the seating area, so that makes controlling them via IR rather difficult since you have to point the remote behind you.

If you use the device button you can treat it like any other remote and choose your device and choose exactly what command you're using. But the whole point of activity-based is choose what you want to do(Play DVD or Watch TV). Watch TV and it will talk to the devices it needs to. Watch TV turns on the TV and sets it to Input 2, turns on the receiver and sets it to TV, turns on the HD200. Now it controls the HD200 but hit volume up/down and it is controlling the receiver.

Yup, that's the theory I'm trying to impliment, just trying to figure out how to do that with the complication that none of the devices are within line of sight of the seating position.

Play DVD sets it to Input 1 on the TV, turns on the Blu-Ray, switches receiver to DVD input, turns off the HD200. (Or not turn it off-up to you and how you want to use it.) Sometimes the configuration software can be a PITA but if you have the timing correct (delays between the command) it will work fine.

Yeah, that was one thing that sort of bugged me when I've used macro-capable remotes in the past, having to keep the remote pointed after hitting the command. Something RF would solve. If the One were RF like the 890, I'd probably be trying one right now.

Originally Posted by hockeyfan

Man that's a lot of remotes. I was getting irritated having 3.

Well, I'm usually only using my AVM20 remote and HD200 remote

[Djc208]

I have the an older version of the RFS200 though I don't use the RF portion. It's a solid remote, and while harder to set up than a Harmony (got my parents one and it works OK), it is basically infinitely flexible.

You can attach macros to any button and even attach a command and a macro to the same button. This is great for your device buttons. You can press the button and switch to that devices controls, or you can attach a macro with a beginning pause so that if you hold the button down for a second you can activate a macro to set up your system for the device.

I would however suggest you go with the MX version for it's software programming. To really get the most from your setup you'll want to make sure your macros use discrete codes. The built in codes don't always support discretes and without computer programming you have to use a fairly convoluted method to program discrete codes into the URC.

As for punch through and multiple setups one option with a URC is either to program the other codes into the universal buttons or you can set up one of the unused devices as a duplicate but with the different punch through.

I set up mine the second way so that if I'm watching TV and want sound through the receiver vice just the TV speakers I hit a universal button labeled "surnd" and it runs a macro that turns on the receiver to the correct input, shuts off the TV's internal speakers and switches to the "other" TV remote where the volume buttons are punched through the receiver. It also has an extra "page" of universal buttons to control certain features of the receiver.

[jptaz]

Stanger,

I just checked the software and confirmed that every button is customizable for activities. So every button on the remote can be mapped to any device and any button. The wizzard defaults it to the most logical based on your settings...i.e what controls volume, etc. At first I was not a real fan of the button positions and size but I did get used to quicker than I thought I would and now I am pretty conformatble with it.

John

[stanger89]

Well, almost three months later, and I finally did something.

Just bought a MX-880+MRF-260. I stopped at one of the local HT shops and took a look at what they had. They had an 810 on hand, and I really liked the feel of it. The 810 is nearly identical in layout to 880. I talked to them a bit and they confirmed that the 880 is a much better remote. The 810 uses wizard-based programming while the 880 uses the "full featured" programming.

They've got to bring the 880 in from another store, so I guess we'll see how it goes when they get it in next week.

[stanger89]

Well after a bit of shipping trouble and mixups in the availability of the 880 from the other store, I finally got my 880, and an MRF-350:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...7&postcount=60