New User Questions vs. SnapStream, client functionality, etc.

[Mike Boulanger]

OK - new user here looking for some info. I've been testing BeyondTV for a couple of weeks and have been pretty happy with that software. Great interface, etc...

I'm now looking at SageTV and have a few questions I'm hoping someone can help me with.

1 - The interface for SageTV 1.4, quite honestly, stinks. It doesn't seem intuitive to me, and it's not very pleasing to my eye. Everything I hear says 2.0 is far better, but I can't trial 2.0 which I think is kind of silly. Is it safe to say that the SageTV 2.0 interface is as good and intuitive as BeyondTV, or do people still find it lacking? Screenshots I see for 2.0 look good, but aren't overly revealing.

2 - I know there's no real accurate answer to this question, but how close is 2.0 to final release? Are we talking weeks or probably months?

3 - I currently only have 1 tuner card in my HTPC and tried installing the client on another PC with no tuner card installed. When both are running, I can't change the channel on either the server or the client. If I exit the client, I can again change channels on the server. Is this normal? Don't quite understand why that would be.

4 - How do multiple tuners work? Is one used for live TV while others for scheduled recordings? Is it pretty seamless for the user, or is it a hassle to manage what tuner is used for what function? If I have 2 clients with no tuners and 3 tuners in the server, will each client get it's own tuner for live TV? This whole concept is kind of a blur to me...

5 - If I have clients with tuners on my network, will they be utilized for scheduled recordings? Or should I be throwing all my tuners on my server?

Thanks so much in advance. I've been searching and reading all morning, but these are some things I can't seem to locate straight answers for - hopefully someone here can help.

Thanks again,
Mike

[mlbdude]

1, 2. Don't know when release will be but most of us are running with the current Beta. The default interface supplied by Frey is quite a bit better than 1.4. It has more functionality than BTV but whether it looks better will be up to you.

3. Client should be able to change channel on server as long as server is not using it. I have 3 tuners so I can't remember exactly how one worked.

4. You can watch or record one show per tuner from either the server or a client. 3 tuners means 3 shows can be recorded and watched. Live TV is really just a manual recording underneath it all and acts the same.

5. I run 2 tuners in the server and 1 in a client. You need SageRecorder though to set it up as a network encoder.

[Opus4]

Originally posted by Mike Boulanger
2 - ... how close is 2.0 to final release? Are we talking weeks or probably months?

Yes -- days, weeks, months. Somewhere in there would cover it.

3 - I currently only have 1 tuner card in my HTPC and tried installing the client on another PC with no tuner card installed. When both are running, I can't change the channel on either the server or the client. If I exit the client, I can again change channels on the server. Is this normal? Don't quite understand why that would be.

Are both watching live TV? It probably wouldn't let you change it on one, since it is in use for live TV on the other. Can you image that you are watching live TV in one room & someone else is watching live TV in another room... and you are both constantly changing the channel on each other. That would be like 2 people watching the same TV with dueling remotes.

4 - How do multiple tuners work? Is one used for live TV while others for scheduled recordings? Is it pretty seamless for the user, or is it a hassle to manage what tuner is used for what function?

It is pretty seemless. You simple mark the shows you want to record & it does it... unless you try to record more shows than you have tuners for at the same time. As for live TV, with my 2 tuners, I can watch separate live Tv channels on my server & client.

5 - If I have clients with tuners on my network, will they be utilized for scheduled recordings? Or should I be throwing all my tuners on my server?

You can use the tuners on the network for recording in SageTV by using SageRecorder. SageTV would then control what SageRecorder records on the networked PC.

- Andy

[Mike Boulanger]

Are both watching live TV? It probably wouldn't let you change it on one, since it is in use for live TV on the other. Can you image that you are watching live TV in one room & someone else is watching live TV in another room... and you are both constantly changing the channel on each other. That would be like 2 people watching the same TV with dueling remotes.

Actually, it wouldn't let me switch on either unless exited live TV on the server, which I thought was weird.



One other question - when multiple tuners are installed, how do you choose which one to watch? Or, if multiple shows are being recorded, how do you choose one from a client?

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Mike Boulanger
Actually, it wouldn't let me switch on either unless exited live TV on the server, which I thought was weird.

Since you were watching LiveTV on the server that tuner is in use and therefore the client can't watch something else on it. If you're watching LiveTV on the server, do you really want someone on a client somewhere else changing the channel on you.

One other question - when multiple tuners are installed, how do you choose which one to watch? Or, if multiple shows are being recorded, how do you choose one from a client?

You don't have direct control over the tuners, Sage just uses whatever tuner is available for whatever needs to be done. So if you're on the client and want to watch LiveTV, Sage will just start using an unused tuner. I think multiple tuners show up as Sage1, Sage2... in SageGuide if I remember correctly.

[fidget]

Originally posted by stanger89
I think multiple tuners show up as Sage1, Sage2... in SageGuide if I remember correctly.

This is true under version 1.4, but in 2.0 things are different. The recorded programs do not currently display in the SageGuide (although I suppose that technically the SageGuide does not currently exist under 2.0). The naming convention used in the scheduled recording list is the name that you see when display the list of tuners (something like "Hauppauge PCI PVR #1," only longer). I would like to see it go back to SAGE 1, SAGE 2, SAGE N.

[Mike Boulanger]

First off, thanks for the helpful replies...

Since you were watching LiveTV on the server that tuner is in use and therefore the client can't watch something else on it. If you're watching LiveTV on the server, do you really want someone on a client somewhere else changing the channel on you.

I understand the reasoning. But, I would have assumed that the server would still maintain control over the channel, but I found the fact that neither the server or the client could change the channel a bit odd. I certainly wouldn't want someone from another room logging in with the client and causing me to lose control over changing the channels.

You don't have direct control over the tuners, Sage just uses whatever tuner is available for whatever needs to be done. So if you're on the client and want to watch LiveTV, Sage will just start using an unused tuner. I think multiple tuners show up as Sage1, Sage2... in SageGuide if I remember correctly.

Just trying to get a sense of how this would work.

So, let's say I have 2 tuners and they are both being used to record shows. If I log in with a client, it will just randomly show me what is being recorded on one of the tuners? What if I want to watch what's being recorded on with the other tuner? Let's say both are recording and I want to watch some live TV with tuner 2 (because tuner 1 is recording a show I really want recorded). Is that possible?

[Opus4]

Originally posted by Mike Boulanger
So, let's say I have 2 tuners and they are both being used to record shows. If I log in with a client, it will just randomly show me what is being recorded on one of the tuners? What if I want to watch what's being recorded on with the other tuner? Let's say both are recording and I want to watch some live TV with tuner 2 (because tuner 1 is recording a show I really want recorded). Is that possible?

In Sage 2, there are at least 3 ways to see what is currently recording:

1) Sage Recordings -- the current recording seems to be listed at the top of the list & has a yellow border. Select it to watch it.

2) LiveTV Guide - Currently recorded shows have a yellow border. Select it to watch it.

3) Display the list of scheduled recordings. Choose one that is at the top of the list & currently recording to watch it.

Oops - they don't always have a yellow border: my currently recording favorites still have a white border.

Want to watch a previously recorded show instead? Simply select a recorded show & watch it on the server or any client. _That_ is where a product like this shines. DON'T bother with live tv -- just set up your scheduled recordings & watch them later, at your convenience. I think that is the part that hasn't fully sunk in to you yet: once you get used to this, you won't care what happens with live tv. Live TV is irrelevant.

But, if you have an unused tuner & you want to watch live TV, it will be used to watch live tv if you insist.

- Andy

[Mike Boulanger]

I think that is the part that hasn't fully sunk in to you yet: once you get used to this, you won't care what happens with live tv. Live TV is irrelevant.

I do get it, as I've been a TiVo user for years and 95% of the time you're right. However, I tend to do things like watch the news in bed at night. I want to make sure live TV works well from a client since my bedroom would be a client.

Thanks again...

[stanger89]

Originally posted by Mike Boulanger

I understand the reasoning. But, I would have assumed that the server would still maintain control over the channel, but I found the fact that neither the server or the client could change the channel a bit odd. I certainly wouldn't want someone from another room logging in with the client and causing me to lose control over changing the channels.

I think it is the same thing happening, since something else is watching LiveTV, Sage won't interupt it. This is essentially uncharted territory, nobody else has done this before. My guess is Jeff/Dan were faced with the question "What should Sage do when two clients are watching the same show?" The only options would be:

• Change the channel - which would ruin the experiece for the other client
• Ask the other client if it's OK - which would also ruin the other client's experience
• Do nothing - Leaves the other client alone (good)

And they decided (rightly so IMO) that interupting any other client, even the "server," is unacceptable. However, it sounds like it would be nice if Sage prompted the user that it was unable to comply, something like "All tuners are busy now" similar to how it prompts you if you try to start LiveTV but the tuner is recording something else.

This probably hasn't come up yet since it seems most people here just add more tuners when they start running into conflicts.

I'd bug this but I don't run clients so I don't know if this has changed in 2.0.

[Opus4]

Originally posted by Mike Boulanger
I do get it, as I've been a TiVo user for years

Great! I guess I'm used to new forum members sometimes getting a little hung up on live tv w/o realizing you can simply record everything w/o watching it live. There is at least one difference with SageTV, though: everything you watch 'live' is actually recorded & currently, once you start live tv, it keeps going until you close or sleep SageTV.

Anyway... if you want to watch something not currently recording & there is an unused tuner, live tv won't be a problem on your client.

- Andy

[Mike Boulanger]

There is at least one difference with SageTV, though: everything you watch 'live' is actually recorded & currently, once you start live tv, it keeps going until you close or sleep SageTV.

Not quite sure I follow... Do you mean that it's recording everything, even if you change channels? Like TiVo except it's not limited to 30 mins and it keeps the previous channel recording?

I'm assuming you can set limits so you don't run out of disk space?

[stanger89]

That's correct, if you don't sleep sage, it doesn't know you've stopped watching LiveTV and keeps recording.

Sage doesn't use a buffer like other products, it records each show individually, the merits of this have been debated a number of times here, and it is unlikely to change. However, based on the number of requests, I would guess that before 2.0 goes gold it will have the option to limit the amount of space it uses for LiveTV.

In detailed setup there are options for Use All/Use X Gb/ Leave X Gb free, but my advice would be to give Sage it's own partition/disk to play with.

[mlbdude]

I have not seen anything in the works in regard to limiting LiveTV storage. What does happen now is that these files have the lowest priority and are deleted first when it comes time for Sage to delete a file to make room for another show.

[Mike Boulanger]

What does happen now is that these files have the lowest priority and are deleted first when it comes time for Sage to delete a file to make room for another show.

So what if you change to a show and watch 10 minutes of it? Does it save that? Or do you have to watch an entire show in live TV for it to save it?

[mlbdude]

It is stored on file, but deleted when needed. Partial recordings are only visible if you go to the file system. As far as Sage is concerned they are temp files to be deleted as soon as needed.

The good thing about this is if you are switching channels, then come back to a channel it will continue with the old file appending to it. This way you have a buffer of what you were watching before if you wanted to time-shift for some reason.

[Mike Boulanger]

Cool, thanks guys for all the help...

I sure wish I could test out 2.0 though, since it seems to be considerably better than 1.4.

If it was BeyondTV vs SageTV 1.4, I would probably choose BeyondTV because of the interface. SageTV 2.0 makes me want to go with SageTV, but it would be nice to actually see the product first...

[mlbdude]

The screen shots of 2.0 are basically what you get with the included Frey UI. Keep in mind that others will come as user created interfaces are released to suit just about every taste. The functionality of 1.4 and 2.0 is almost identical. I own both BTV and Sage. I like them both, but a "pretty" UI only lasts so long before you want the features.

At some point a trial of 2.0 will be available it might be worth waiting before making a decision.