SoCal HD (OTA vs QAM) questions...

[S_M_E]

I live in SoCal and there are a number of OTA sources available according to antennaweb.org (40 yellow, 15 green) but I also have basic cable (no STB) through Charter which will offer some QAM channels too but I have no idea which or how many. I still have an old, medium sized, directional VHF/UHF antenna on the roof from the pre-cable days but I'm not sure which, if either, is better. I just found my lost Pinnacle-HD USB tuner and I thought I'd give HD a shot instead of using it for analog like I did before.

If I go QAM I just need to split my cable to my new tuner and set it up but if I go OTA, then I have to run more coax to the Sage server from the roof. So...

Is OTA better than QAM or vice-versa?

Is there any other reason to pick one over the other?

Are people in SoCal having better luck with one or the other?

Any other tips or suggestions?

TIA...

[pjpjpjpj]

The questions you have to ask are:
1) What QAM channels do you get vs. what OTA channels? (check QAM here: http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels )

2) How is your OTA reception, keeping in mind that the longer your run of coax, the more reception loss you will have)? Have you tested it at all? Also realize that some channels may be moving (VHF->UHF or vice-versa) next month, so your reception may change.

3) How is your cable signal strength? Most people don't realize that cable isn't always "fully powered" (and that splitters lose signal), and many QAM tuners need more signal than the local split to the tuner card. In other words, you might need to add an inline amp in your cable, near where it enters your house (before splits). Search around here and you will find a few threads where people hooked up QAM and did not get a reliable enough signal for their tuner.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

The questions you have to ask are:
1) What QAM channels do you get vs. what OTA channels? (check QAM here: http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels )

Digital Antenna: 67 programs
Digital Cable: 75 programs
Interesting enough, the main channel that I was hoping to get in 1080 is only broadcasting in 720 but 720p is better than SD so watching 24 will be nicer.

2) How is your OTA reception, keeping in mind that the longer your run of coax, the more reception loss you will have)? Have you tested it at all? Also realize that some channels may be moving (VHF->UHF or vice-versa) next month, so your reception may change.

I haven't tested it with digital reception, the old analog reception was fine back in the day. Most stations are ~30 miles away.

3) How is your cable signal strength? Most people don't realize that cable isn't always "fully powered" (and that splitters lose signal), and many QAM tuners need more signal than the local split to the tuner card. In other words, you might need to add an inline amp in your cable, near where it enters your house (before splits). Search around here and you will find a few threads where people hooked up QAM and did not get a reliable enough signal for their tuner.

I've never tested it for TV but when I've had to call support for internet they've always said it was strong. I do have a few splitters but I've also added an amp. If anything the signal might be too strong and adding another or larger splitter probably won't hurt. My picture from my analog tuners is good.

So, I've never tested either but QAM would be easiest to hookup so I'll probably go that route instead of running more coax, unless there's a reason OTA might be preferred.

Thanks for the input...

[Beefcake550]

OMG - OTA would be better for sure (hopefully)

Forgetting signal strength (since that will NOT effect the picture you get, it will only effect whether you get the channel at all. The REAL question is how much compression your cable company is doing. Is it more or less that what you can notice? The OTA signal is pure, untouched HD. Don't be mad about 720p. CBS, NBC, and WB do 1080i while FOX and ABC do 720p.

1920x1080x30fps = 62208000 pixel changes/second
1280x720x60fps = 55296000 pixel changes/second

So, 720p has 11.11% less pixel updates/second. Some argue it's better/worse for sports/movies/etc, but the point is it's the same no matter where you get it from and there's nothing you can do about it.

Anyhow, if you don't notice artifacts or compression, stick with QAM. If you don't like the artifacts/compression, then at least try out OTA. Personally, I'd at least TRY out OTA and see how it goes. If it looks/feels better, make that setup permanent.

[sandor]

just remember that OTA (ATSC) from your affiliates and QAM HD from the cable company *both* get the content from the same source. Typically the ATSC broadcast has more available bandwidth (approx 19 mbps per channel) than what the cable company gives a single channel. Comcast (cable here in Philly) has been rumored to only be giving each HD channel about 12 mbps - thus they are compressing the same HD feed the ATSC affiliates receive, resulting in image degradation.

[S_M_E]

The question now seems moot in my case. I tried QAM but I had zero signal strength on all channels, OTA worked with a tiny telescoping antenna indoors (signal was still a bit weak) so I'll be running coax from the roof soon. I wont get the same channels (like TBS) that I would have had with QAM, if it had worked, but I will be able to get FOX-11 to watch 24 in HD.

Thanks...

EDIT:
I ran my new coax to the old rooftop antenna but now I get no signal at all so the antenna must be bad. The little antenna that came with the tuner is too weak so I'll either have to buy a new antenna for the roof or spring for STBs.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I ran my new coax to the old rooftop antenna but now I get no signal at all so the antenna must be bad. The little antenna that came with the tuner is too weak so I'll either have to buy a new antenna for the roof or spring for STBs.

1) Do you have a usable attic? If you can get OTA solidly with an antenna in the attic, you avoid not only weather issues (the damage that being outdoors can do to antennas, cable, etc.), but also having to worry about properly grounding that lightning rod, er, antenna.

2) How long is your coax from your (roof/attic) to the tuner? What kind of coax are you using? Make sure it's good-quality RG6.

3) Have you checked www.tvfool.com for your reception map? Specifically, are all the channels you want to receive coming from a single direction? Or from various directions? This will (should) determine the kind of antenna you want to get. Or, um, make? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw)

[S_M_E]

The attic space is tiny, less than 2 feet at the peak, and a PITA to navigate but the old antenna was on the roof for ~40 years so I'm not worried about putting another up there and the higher the antenna the better. They are ugly though. I could mount a small amplified antenna on the inside roof of the garage but I don't know if that woud be good enough and antennaweb.org suggests not using an attic which is basically the same thing.

50 feet.

I checked antennaweb.org and 99% of the channels are basically in the same place. ~30 miles away and ~5 degrees North.

I might try bypassing the amp on the cable source to see if my zero signal is because of too much amplification for QAM.

Thanks again...

[pjpjpjpj]

I recommend using www.tvfool.com instead of antennaweb because they have better terrain mapping data (more reliable in terms of whether there are hills blocking your reception, more reliable at getting the base elevation of your house correct).

Definitely use a directional (reflected) antenna. You probably don't need anything more than this: http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...2202934&sr=8-3

But with 50 feet of coax, you are going to lose several dB of signal in the cable, so maybe try one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...2202934&sr=8-1
or
http://www.amazon.com/Antennas-Direc...2203158&sr=1-8

[sandor]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

But with 50 feet of coax, you are going to lose several dB of signal in the cable, so maybe try one of these: ...

with 50 feet of a decent rg-8 (such as belden 9913) signal loss over 50 ft is less than two-tenths of a dB (0.2dB).

while signal loss is something to consider, it certainly should be nowhere near "several dB"


http://www.ocarc.ca/coax.htm

[S_M_E]

I'm not even worried about the .4dB loss using 50' of RG6, I'm pretty sure it's the 40 year old rusty antenna. I'm also confidant that a 50 dollar replacement would work pretty good but a 20 dollar Radio Shack amp might work/help too.

I still may bypass the amp on the Charter cable to see if QAM would work with less power but it might be my USB tuner too.