Remotes: Harmony seems slow... alternatives?

[greggerm]

First, the setup:

SageTV, USB-UIRT, EventGhost, Harmony One

The Harmony One is set up per Scat's guide. I used a surrogate device (the same one mentioned in the guide) as a "source" for IR codes, and I used EventGhost + SageTV plugin to bind event commands to the remote keypresses.

It functions, but there's a hiccup. Read on!

Observations:

I noticed that SageTV's response to the remote control was significantly slower than what I had when using a Hauppaugue remote on my old HTPC, which has gone to the great theater in the sky at this point...

As a singular example of the problem that occurs with ANY remote control inputs to Sage, if I hit the up arrow three times in very rapid succession, the program guide of Sage goes up a line....up a line....up a line. On my previous HTPC, and when using the keyboard now, it was a very bang|bang UP.UP.UP experience. Along with these delays, I have noticed that the USB-UIRT receive light is blinking in concert with each line moving up.

I can hit the remote in rapid succession and sit back and relax as the remote transmits the signals one after another.

I then compared my Harmony with the television remote, and watched the USB-UIRT light to see what happens. (The Harmony does have my television programmed in as a device, so it is a theoretical 1:1 map)

If I click a button on my television remote, the USB-UIRT lamp illuminates quickly and goes out in concert with my keypress. If I click the same button on the Harmony, the USB-UIRT lamp illuminates longer and tends to flicker, with a noticably longer timespan - almost as if it is sending more commands.


Hypothesis:
After testing my actual television remote vs. my Harmony television remote, I can see a delay/slowness in the USB-UIRT receive LED when using the Harmony. I presume this translates into the problem I am experiencing.

The Harmony remote is sending more signals or slower signals to the systems, and this is the root cause of my slow response in Sage. It's not bang|bang'ing out the keypresses.

Question:
Have any of you experienced a similar issue?

Since I am within my window for returning the Harmony, are there any alternative remotes that are known to not have this type of hiccup?

There are settings to adjust some of the Harmony's IR delays, however none of them seem to make any difference in the response of the remote.

Thanks!
Your collective input is, as always, greatly appreciated!!!

-Greg

[gplasky]

Go into the Harmony software app. Look in the help section about the commands running slow. There is an option in the Harmony device to change the speed. Or just update the device with no changes and tell it it is NOT working right. It will give you some choice to pick from. One of them has to do with the speed of the commands.


Gerry

[greggerm]

I did make some adjustments to the timings... here's a cut and paste of the help file from the "Adjust the response times (delays)" configuration settings found in the device area...

Which of these entries do you think are the one(s) worth paying attention to?

Power On Delay. When a device receives a PowerOn command, it takes a certain amount of time to "warm up" the device and resume normal operation. For most devices this happens very quickly, but for some devices, such as televisions and receivers, it can take up to 3000 milliseconds (three seconds).

Inter-key Delay. When a device receives an infrared command the device is considered"busy" while it processes the command. The amount of time required before the device will respond to another command is known as the inter-key delay, and normally ranges from zero to 300 milliseconds. Devices with long inter-key delays take longer to respond to multiple infrared commands (e.g., when changing television channels).

Input Delay. When a device switches inputs (e.g. goes from Video 1 to Video 2) the device is considered "busy" while it processes the command. The amount of time required before the device will respond to another switch input command is known as the input delay, and normally ranges from 500 to 3000 milliseconds. Devices with long input delays take longer to change inputs.

Inter-Device Delay. When an infrared command is sent for a particular device, each device in your system will receive the command, but only one will respond to it. The other devices will ignore the infrared command. Sometimes, when this happens, a device will ignore the infrared signal and then stop accepting infrared commands for a period of time. This period of time is known as the inter-device delay. During this time no infrared signals are generated by the remote. In rare cases this delay can be several seconds.

I have adjusted the "inter-key" delay from 500 to 100 to 25, but that had zero bearing on the problem. These are the only timing/delay settings I have found in the Harmony system.

Editing to add:
There is another help file which talks specifically about the inter-key delay needing to be divisible by 100. I might set this delay to zero when I get home from work to see if that cleans up the issue. Until then, all other opinions and ideas are welcome!

Thanks,
-Greg

[CollinR]

You have EventGhost just use hatever remote feels good in your hand. EventGhost is only a million times more configurable then a Harmony.

For a suggestion though... Might look at a Snapstream Firefly, fully supported by EventGhost and RF based works everywhere in my house and ost of my property. You would want to run or relay IR to the TV to get it to turn that on/off as it doesn't transmit IR at all.

As a bonus it has a bunch of buttons that are more PC related stuff like mouse L click and mouse R click, min/max and some extras like ABCD you can do as you want with.

[redondo_se]

I had the exact same problem with my Harmony 550. I use girder, not event ghost, but I'm sure that doesn't matter.

I was originally trying to use my IR keyboard reciever for input, but the IR codes being sent by the harmony remote exibited the exact same behavior you are describing. Very slow and keypresses would be "buffered" and sent delayed. I tried tweaking all the harmony delays, but none of them made a difference. The problem is the IR codes that the remote is trying to send.

I switched to a serial IR receiver from an old packard bell remote, and tried different devices to use for source IR codes until I found one that worked well. I ended up using the Motorola PVR (DCT-6412) as my source device. Now the IR codes are sent very snappy. Try using that device.

[greggerm]

I ended up using the Motorola PVR (DCT-6412) as my source device. Now the IR codes are sent very snappy. Try using that device.

Good stuff.

If the timing adjustment fails (which I presume it will), I'll try that device as my surrogate SageTV device. I also have a remote/model number with me from a device at work - the only problem is that it is also a Panasonic, which is the same brand as the device I just configured as a surrogate.

We'll see!
-Greg

[greggerm]

Looks like it's a strikeout on both fixes...

Setting the timings to 0ms or 100ms had no effect on the remote's response.

Trying a few other vendors and types of surrogate devices to act as the SageTV infrared library of commands did not make any difference either. I attempted several Motorola, Samsung, Panny, and Toshiba devices, only to get the same results.

In all cases, I could wail on some of the Harmony buttons, and watch as the remote slowly sent the keypresses one after another, as evidenced by the USB-UIRT receive light blinking away well after I finished pressing any buttons.

She's getting boxed back up now.

Any recommendations for another better performing (fast response time) universal remote?

Thanks,
-Greg

[QueOnda]

Call Harmony Support. I had a problem, which they had a beta firmware fix. Also, they are able to tweak some settings which you are NOT able to do in the software.

[greggerm]

I really need to learn to step back, assess the situation, and then take another look at things.

QueOnda's post didn't get me to call Logitech for support, but it did make me realize that I hadn't done one of the most obvious things in the face of such a problem...

...Google...

(duh.)

I looked up my problem and discovered a wealth of other users with the same complaints, and also discovered another setting which could very well contribute to my problem. I unboxed the remote, set aside the receipt, and went back to work.

The "repeats" setting is buried inside a troubleshooting section and unavailable to the user in the normal settings areas. After taking the key delay down to 0ms again, I visited the repeats area and set it from the default of 3, down to zero.

After re-synching the remote, I gave it a shot.



While it is not perfect, and the response time is noticeably slower than the instantaneous response the Hauppaugue remote would get, it is much improved and now firmly into the usable category.

The Harmony's styling AND its hidden capabilities are magnified tenfold when paired up with the USB-UIRT and EventGhost. The trio work together perfectly as a great control method for SageTV.

Next steps? Working with EventGhost to attempt to control things like WinAMP and PowerDVD...

..but not before I enjoy my television while firmly planted on my couch.

Thanks for all the help, everyone!
-Greg

[QueOnda]

greggerm, Can you supply the link to the website you landed on??

[greggerm]

There were several...

Searches..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...ne&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...earch&aq=f&oq=

The primary helpful one...
http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/comm...-response.html

Others...
http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...hread.cgi?3939
http://forums.logitech.com/logitech/...hread.id=16535

[scat]

Originally Posted by greggerm

Next steps? Working with EventGhost to attempt to control things like WinAMP and PowerDVD...
-Greg

Greg


I have updated my guide to include the following
adding plugins, dragging and dropping commands,
copying items from some else's file, with SageTV and PowerDVD examples,
just download version 2 of the guide.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25448

Scat