WHS and lots of storage options?

[PLUCKYHD]

What are you guys doing for WHS and 9tb of storage situations? The way I see it to have everything backed up I will have to have 18tb of total storage with windows home server correct?

The case I am looking at has enough room inside for 6 internal hard drives so that takes care of the first 9tb by using 1.5tb drives.

What external enclosures are you using that will hold six drives? hoping esata as I don't know that usb drives would fit my needs?

Thanks

[mikejaner]

Here's a product for starters:
http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sata_enclosures/scsat84x.asp

All you need is a 4x multilane SATA cards etc.......

[PLUCKYHD]

Man that is nice but sure is pricey

[PLUCKYHD]

A couple more questions.

Can someone explain the "pool" more to a whs newb. Is this drives that are included in the data reduncy? Is it a 1:1 ratio in other words do I need 2tb of storage for 1tb of availabilty.

I am wanting all my pics, music, a couple of apple computers, and my movies (aboot 6tb) in the reduncy check where if a drive fails I don't lose the information.

Thanks again.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

A couple more questions.

Can someone explain the "pool" more to a whs newb. Is this drives that are included in the data reduncy? Is it a 1:1 ratio in other words do I need 2tb of storage for 1tb of availabilty.

The pool itself is nothing more than an abstraction layer that makes all the disks appear as one volume. In addition to that WHS has the capability to duplicate data to multiple disks. If you enable it for a folder, all data in it is written to two disks.

So as you note, if you want all your data redundant using the WHS pool, then you have to turn on duplication for everything and then everything you write to the pool gets writen twice, meaning you need 2x the drives vs no redundancy.

I am wanting all my pics, music, a couple of apple computers, and my movies (aboot 6tb) in the reduncy check where if a drive fails I don't lose the information.

Thanks again.

Yeah, for that you'd need 12TB of disks using WHS duplication.

Another option would be to use RAID-5 or RAID-6. This only "costs" you one (two for RAID-6) drives worth of space, so you only need one extra drive.

[PLUCKYHD]

Yeah I use raid in work enviroment but I really want to stick with WHS version of "raid" if you will for it's ease of setup and use. But maybe Raid would be a better/cheaper option.

[DOS64K]

I'm using this (AMS T-4S) for additional storage on my WHS setup. It comes with a PCI-Ex1 eSATA card with two connectors (allowing you potentially use two of these rigs) and I use it in a JBOD mode with 4 X 500GB Spinpoints. The vendor does have a list of compatible 1TB drives (it's a short list), but it may be an option for you. WHS recognized the drives immediately once configured in the vendor's GUI.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Yeah I use raid in work enviroment but I really want to stick with WHS version of "raid" if you will for it's ease of setup and use. But maybe Raid would be a better/cheaper option.

Duplication gets very expensive, very quickly with large quantities of data. And then there's the logicistics as well, like powering and storing tons of drives.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Duplication gets very expensive, very quickly with large quantities of data. And then there's the logicistics as well, like powering and storing tons of drives.

Oh I agree but after taking the time to rip my 1000 dvd collection I don't want to have to do it again

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by DOS64K

I'm using this (AMS T-4S) for additional storage on my WHS setup. It comes with a PCI-Ex1 eSATA card with two connectors (allowing you potentially use two of these rigs) and I use it in a JBOD mode with 4 X 500GB Spinpoints. The vendor does have a list of compatible 1TB drives (it's a short list), but it may be an option for you. WHS recognized the drives immediately once configured in the vendor's GUI.

Where did you buy these from?

[S_M_E]

Is your server running headless in a closet or in the garage, perhaps?

If so, you can just get another case/PSU to hold your hard drives and run the cables from one case to the server or you could replace your current server case with one better suited for your needs. A 6 drive case really isn't made for your storage requirements.

The other question is; do you really have 9T now or is that what you're expecting to have sometime in the future? 2T drives are already out and while they're expensive now, the prices will drop and larger drives will come out. 2T drives will mean you need less drives. If you can start with 1.5T drives and add 2T (or larger) drives later, you might not need as many drives as you think.

The route I would go is a case designed to hold more drives or a second "cheaper" case to hold the extras.

EDIT:
A case like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811128020
Is 86 dollars and holds 9 drives. (9x2T=18T)

[Trepidati0n]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Duplication gets very expensive, very quickly with large quantities of data. And then there's the logicistics as well, like powering and storing tons of drives.

A decent 8 channel RAID card is $400+. If you want 16 channel...grab ankles. RAID is not easy for expansion (takes a ton of time) and rebuilds with consumer drives suffer from a high probability of a URE which means a failed rebuild. RAID5/6 should only be used if you need "uptime" and not data integrity/safety.

Powering the drives these days is a joke. You can easily buy a very good 750W PSU for $70 (like PCP&C). That can easily handle 20 drives w/o flinching. Today's "green" drives PEAK at 15W during startup.

You can get a Norco 4020 which can hold a ton of drives and all hot swap --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811219021

If you need more ports, buy the supermicro 8 port non raid controller (it will fit in PCI slots) for $100/pop

In short, a Norco 4020, 2 supermicro cards, with an ATX mobo (need PCI slot for tuners for some people), and 750W supply will provide pretty much all you need for a long time.

I have seen way too many RAID5 fail in the past 3 months w/ consumer grade equipment to even remotely recommend it to the home user. It is just not worth the grief.


EDIT: People with large servers and nice TV's in their house should really check the electronics coverage in their home insurance. Most times that is limited to only a few 1000.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Trepidati0n

In short, a Norco 4020, 2 supermicro cards, with an ATX mobo (need PCI slot for tuners for some people), and 750W supply will provide pretty much all you need for a long time.

I have seen way too many RAID5 fail in the past 3 months w/ consumer grade equipment to even remotely recommend it to the home user. It is just not worth the grief.


EDIT: People with large servers and nice TV's in their house should really check the electronics coverage in their home insurance. Most times that is limited to only a few 1000.

I agree on all counts. 20 drives is probably more than is needed for WHS but not the record.

[bhyman1]

Originally Posted by DOS64K

I'm using this (AMS T-4S) for additional storage on my WHS setup. It comes with a PCI-Ex1 eSATA card with two connectors (allowing you potentially use two of these rigs) and I use it in a JBOD mode with 4 X 500GB Spinpoints. The vendor does have a list of compatible 1TB drives (it's a short list), but it may be an option for you. WHS recognized the drives immediately once configured in the vendor's GUI.

These work great. I've used three of the Sans Digital version of these. They work perfectly with the WD 1TB Green Drives too.

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Where did you buy these from?

I think Newegg has them.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Oh I agree but after taking the time to rip my 1000 dvd collection I don't want to have to do it again

Note I said "duplication", not redundancy. I completely understand the value of redundancy, my point was as storage requirement grow, the cost of "redundancy by duplication" goes up very fast.

"Redundancy by parity" (eg RAID-5) has a higher cost of entry, but it's cost is fixed and doesn't really increase as capacity needs grow (that is assuming you chose the right components to meet your eventual needs in the first place, eg number of ports).

Originally Posted by Trepidati0n

A decent 8 channel RAID card is $400+. If you want 16 channel...grab ankles. RAID is not easy for expansion (takes a ton of time) and rebuilds with consumer drives suffer from a high probability of a URE which means a failed rebuild. RAID5/6 should only be used if you need "uptime" and not data integrity/safety.

The cost of duplicated drives can easily exceed the cost of a good RAID card. The line today is probably around 6TB, after which the extra drives required for duplication cost more than the RAID card and one extra drive for RAID. Besides there are options like unRAID, and FlexRAID which use parity based redundancy, but with the benefits of no expensive RAID card and arbitrarilly sized drives.

Powering the drives these days is a joke. You can easily buy a very good 750W PSU for $70 (like PCP&C). That can easily handle 20 drives w/o flinching. Today's "green" drives PEAK at 15W during startup.

Powering is easy, startup is what's hard, without staggered spinup at least. 750W is basically required to spool up 10 drives simultaneously. The WD Green Drives (the large ones) pull a peak of about 1.75A on the 12V rail, more standard drives are over 2A. All I know is I've got about 11 drives in my server (no staggered spinup) and a 650 wasn't enough.

You can get a Norco 4020 which can hold a ton of drives and all hot swap --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811219021

If you need more ports, buy the supermicro 8 port non raid controller (it will fit in PCI slots) for $100/pop

In short, a Norco 4020, 2 supermicro cards, with an ATX mobo (need PCI slot for tuners for some people), and 750W supply will provide pretty much all you need for a long time.

I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to spool up 20 drives on a 750W PSU without staggered spinup.

I have seen way too many RAID5 fail in the past 3 months w/ consumer grade equipment to even remotely recommend it to the home user. It is just not worth the grief.

I'm not sure what you consider "consumer grade" but that's why I always discourage the use of stuff like Highpoint, Promise, Raidcore, etc.

My 3ware card has been flawless for four years now, and saved me twice with drive failures.

I'd hate to try and manage another 7 drives in that machine.

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I agree on all counts. 20 drives is probably more than is needed for WHS but not the record.

20 drives is not that unrealistic if you've got on the order of 10TB you want rendundant. And 10TB isn't all that much anymore.

[DOS64K]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Where did you buy these from?

Newegg.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by bhyman1

These work great. I've used three of the Sans Digital version of these. They work perfectly with the WD 1TB Green Drives too.

Do they work with 1.5T or the new 2T drives? Will they be updated to support larger drives in the future?

If not, I'd avoid them. I'd rather just use a case that holds all of my drives than those, personally. 4 drives using one USB or eSata port gives me pause too.

[something fishy]

I use a coolermaster stacker full tower case and 3x "5 in 3" sata backplanes.
That leaves me with two 5-1/2 inch bays free that are filled with
- a separate hot swappable sata drive (which I use for backup of really important stuff)
- an ODD

This gives me:
2 system drives (Raid1 using a Sil 5744 port multiplier)
11 pool drives
2 sagetv recording drives (mine are separate as they came from a prev install)
1 (mostly removed and held offsite) backup HDD

In my case a 650watt single rail PS powers this lot (I use PCP&C and I've never had any problems spinning up fully loaded). It is built on a Gigabyte mainboard which has 8 sata ports and one parallel port to which I've added 4x 2 headed sata cards in the pci-e slots (including the graphics slot). This leaves me all three normal PCI slots free for tuners.

Its (just) quiet enough to leave in the corner of my office (but you wouldn't want it in your living room).

Eric

[bhyman1]

I'm doing something similar right now.

Big Cooler Master case that has 9 5.25" bays when you take out the control panel thing.

It's going to have 4 of those 5 in 3 SATA hot swap bays for up to 20 drives. I'll be using the 4 built in SATA ports, and then two Supermicro 8 port SATA cards. Then 3 recording drives (outside the whs pool), 1 OS drive, and the rest for the WHS storage pool.

I grabbed a Corsair 850 watt single 12v rail PSU to power it all. Plenty of power for this.

There's a guy over on [H]ardforums who builds gigantic servers every year it seems. This year he went with the above mentioned Norco case, and some of the Corsair 750 watt single 12v rail PSU's. He's had ZERO problems. If you happen to be a member over there do a search for "Galaxy 5.0".

edit: here's the thread for those interested in really big WHS installs. http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1251660

[TallMomof2]

My server isn't as big as yours but I have an Antec Three Hundred case with 6-3.5" bays. Those are currently full. My plan is convert the 5.25" bays to 3.5" and add 3 more drives (and a sata/esata card) when the 2TB drives drop in price. Right now I have 5TB (4 Samsung 1TB and one WD Green 1TB) in the pool and it's getting a bit crowded.