WHS and lots of storage options?

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by Trepidati0n

You can get a Norco 4020 which can hold a ton of drives and all hot swap --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811219021

I was just getting ready to mention this case myself. At some point I plan on moving my stuff into one (I'm using a Chenbro server case right now, with 2 of the 4 bay raid cages, works great, just not terribly expandable).

[crarbo1]

Eric,
Do you mind letting me know what parts you are using in your server? I know you give general items but I would like to know more specific model numbers for the following:

Originally Posted by something fishy

coolermaster stacker full tower case

Originally Posted by something fishy

3 x "5 in 3" sata backplanes.

Originally Posted by something fishy

650watt single rail PS

Originally Posted by something fishy

Gigabyte mainboard which has 8 sata ports and one parallel port

Originally Posted by something fishy

4 x 2 headed sata cards in the pci-e slots.

Thanks,
Chuck

[something fishy]

Craig

Coolermaster stacker 810 (I actually have an earlier version with no windows, this looks the closest currently available)
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16811119093

3 in 5 Sata backplanes
http://www.icydock.com/product/mb455spf.html

650watt single rail PSU
PC Power and Cooling. I’d have bet money on it being 650 watt but they no longer list one of that capacity – maybe it’s discontinued. This 750 watt one should do the job
http://www.pcpower.com/power-supply/...uad-black.html
Its only drawback in my opinion is non detachable cables

Gigabyte mainboard (probably no longer available now)
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/...ProductID=2535
(as many Sata ports as I could find with integrated graphics)

Sata expansion cards
I have a mix of cards based on Sil chips and Marvell chips. In my system I can’t select the Sil ones as boot devices so for choice I’d go for Marvell.
The link is to something that looks identical apart from PCB colour (I guess they are using a reference design)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815280009

[crarbo1]

First off, thanks for all of the links. It is a good reference as to what I need for expansion.

Originally Posted by something fishy

Coolermaster stacker 810 (I actually have an earlier version with no windows, this looks the closest currently available)
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16811119093

That particular case was deactivated but I found a reasonable alternative. The COOLER MASTER Centurion 590 found here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119152 Do you think this would be ok?

Originally Posted by something fishy

3 in 5 Sata backplanes
http://www.icydock.com/product/mb455spf.html

That is a great find. I didn't know about that one. I noticed that they have a revised back panel which uses 3 standard power supply connectors. If I get the case described above with 9 free slots, I would need 3 of these backplanes to give me 15 hard drives (probably all I will ever need). However, that would make me needing 9 standard power supply connectors. Most of the power supplies that I saw (including the one you suggested) only had 8 but did have sata power connectors that these backplanes no longer use. Any ideas on how to overcome this obstacle?

Also, did you buy from one of the 6 places that they listed to buy from? Where did you get it from? The reason I ask is that I have gotten burned by buying items from unknown places before so I would rather buy from someplace known to be good.

Again, thanks for all of your help.

Chuck

[bhyman1]

For the 5-in-3 SATA backplanes, I prefer the Supermicro models. They're $100 - $130 on Newegg. Just search for Supermicro SATA.

For SATA PCI cards, I realy like the 8-port model from Supermicro. It's $100. Works just fine in a 32-bit slot. I have two. Again, Newegg has them. It'll come up in the search "Supermicro SATA".

Also, Corsair PSU's are really solid and reasonably priced. My new server (20 drives) has an 850 watt Corsair single 12v rail PSU.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by bhyman1

For the 5-in-3 SATA backplanes, I prefer the Supermicro models. They're $100 - $130 on Newegg. Just search for Supermicro SATA.

bhyman1,
Thanks for that sugguestion. It looks like a good option and a little less expensive too!

Originally Posted by bhyman1

For SATA PCI cards, I realy like the 8-port model from Supermicro. It's $100. Works just fine in a 32-bit slot. I have two. Again, Newegg has them. It'll come up in the search "Supermicro SATA"..

It looks like those are just for PCI-X and I don't think my current motherboard has that option. I may get a new motherboard anyway but may not right now.

Originally Posted by bhyman1

Also, Corsair PSU's are really solid and reasonably priced. My new server (20 drives) has an 850 watt Corsair single 12v rail PSU.

I looked at the Corsair PSU's already and they do look like a good alternative as well.

Again, thanks for the input!

Chuck

[CollinR]

I would go RAID10 with a nice hardware card in a big ol server case. I wouldn't use duplication in WHS.

Even still RAID doesn't replace backups, so you still need to put all this on tape or optical which will ruthlessly suck.

[bhyman1]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

It looks like those are just for PCI-X and I don't think my current motherboard has that option. I may get a new motherboard anyway but may not right now.

Those cards work just fine in a plain-jane 32-bit PCI slot. That's what my two run in. No need to get a fancy motherboard with PCI-X slots.

Just make sure there's clearance for the rest of the pci connector thingy on your motherboard. Sometimes MB components will get in the way.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by bhyman1

Those cards work just fine in a plain-jane 32-bit PCI slot. That's what my two run in. No need to get a fancy motherboard with PCI-X slots.

Just make sure there's clearance for the rest of the pci connector thingy on your motherboard. Sometimes MB components will get in the way.

Thanks for that info. However, that still doesn't help much since I only have 2 PCI slots and those are currently for my tuner cards. It's always something

Chuck

[something fishy]

Craig
The case you link to will hold 3x 5 in 3 backplanes but nothing else - you could attach a ODD separately or via USB but I would find it a PITA.

Also even with nice thin sata cables the inside of a mid-tower case holding 15 HDDs is going to get very full. If you can for a system this size I would recommend a full tower case. I built a WHS/Sage system for a friend using a mid tower case with 2x 5 in 3 backplanes (10 drives) and it was very successful however.

For the molex vs Sata power issues I would just use splitters. In fact I didn't hit this problem (my backplanes are a mixture 2x old design, 1x new design).

The only requirement for the sata cards IMO is that they need to be bootable and (assuming that you're going to be using the Sil 5744 to put Raid1 on the system disk) port multiplier aware just in case the Sata ports on the mainboard aren't. Supermicro though has an excellent reputation and the 8 port card linked to would be an elegant solution.

This goes for the sata backplanes too. I have no particular allegiance to icydock but it was all I could get. I presently live in Hong Kong and the server was built when i lived in Singapore. Despite the perception that these are shopping paradises you guys in the US have much (much!) more choice and better pricing (which obviously means sorry no recs for where to buy).

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by something fishy

Craig

I think you were addressing my questions but my name is Chuck, not Craig. I'm not offended but just wanted you to know.

Originally Posted by something fishy

The case you link to will hold 3 x 5 in 3 backplanes but nothing else - you could attach a ODD separately or via USB but I would find it a PITA.

I was aware of the case only having 9 5.5" drive bays but I couldn't find one that had more that was in my price range. What do you mean when you say "ODD"? Not familar with that.

Originally Posted by something fishy

The only requirement for the sata cards IMO is that they need to be bootable and (assuming that you're going to be using the Sil 5744 to put Raid1 on the system disk) port multiplier aware just in case the Sata ports on the mainboard aren't. Supermicro though has an excellent reputation and the 8 port card linked to would be an elegant solution.

I have the port multiplier on order. Ordered it on Sunday, didn't ship until Tuesday and it still hasn't gotten here. I hope everything is ok. Fed Ex tracking info hasn't been updated since Wednesday. The Supermicro card does look good but as my previous post stated I can't use it because my only two PCI slots available are being taken up with my TV Tuner cards. I may just have to upgrad my motherboard

Originally Posted by something fishy

This goes for the sata backplanes too. I have no particular allegiance to icydock but it was all I could get. I presently live in Hong Kong and the server was built when i lived in Singapore. Despite the perception that these are shopping paradises you guys in the US have much (much!) more choice and better pricing (which obviously means sorry no recs for where to buy).

Thanks anyway. Newegg does carry it but was a little more expensive than the suggestions on their website. Just thought you may have used one they suggested. I may go with the supermicro version. From the best I can tell from the pictures Newegg has, it only used two 4 pin molex connectors for the power for all 5 hard drives. I may be mistaken though. If that is true then I should have to worry about the power supply connections since I would only need to have 6 available for the 3 backplanes I would be using.

Like always, thanks for your input.

Chuck

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

However, that would make me needing 9 standard power supply connectors. Most of the power supplies that I saw (including the one you suggested) only had 8 but did have sata power connectors that these backplanes no longer use. Any ideas on how to overcome this obstacle?

Use these: http://cooldrives.stores.yahoo.net/4mooufrsapoc.html

Gives you 3 Molex from 1 Sata.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by heffe2001

Use these: http://cooldrives.stores.yahoo.net/4mooufrsapoc.html

Gives you 3 Molex from 1 Sata.

Thanks for that link. They should work fine!

Chuck

[S_M_E]

Why go for a 4 drive case for 60.00 plus 3 icydocks (15 drives in 9 bays) at 100-130 each when you can get a 20 drive case cheaper? The more I look at that Norco 4020 case the better I like it, even if I never fill it up.

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Why go for a 4 drive case for 60.00 plus 3 icydocks (15 drives in 9 bays) at 100-130 each when you can get a 20 drive case cheaper? The more I look at that Norco 4020 case the better I like it, even if I never fill it up.

Thanks for the suggestion. I first thought that it wasn't an option since Newegg had it not accepting a micro ATX motherboard but per the manufactuerers website it does. Also, I wanted a tower style case due to the fact that it can be conscealed in a computer desk and with the door closed, help with the noise. Once of the things that did have me a little concerned is that some of the reviews said it was "quiet for a server". Not sure how quiet that would be and especially if I have to have it exposed on the computer desk rather in the tower location where mine currently resides. It does look good though and I may go with that since it is ultimately cheaper like you said. However, my initial cost would be less because I would only purchase the tower and one sata backplane wich would only be around $150 start up cost instead of the $290 price for the Norco, well at least the price on newegg. I'm torn right now and probably won't make my decision until I use up the remaining slots I have available, which is 3 more HDD's. So I have a little time to decide.

Thanks,
Chuck

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Also, I wanted a tower style case due to the fact that it can be conscealed in a computer desk and with the door closed, help with the noise.

That doesn't seem like the best idea, HDDs need to be kept cool, and stuffing a bunch in a closed cabinet is a recipie for trouble.

Once of the things that did have me a little concerned is that some of the reviews said it was "quiet for a server". Not sure how quiet that would be and especially if I have to have it exposed on the computer desk rather in the tower location where mine currently resides.

The number one enemy of HDDs is heat, they need to be kept cool if you want them to last. A couple drives you can usually get away with basically passive cooling in a normal case. But when you start craming three, four, five, ten, fifteen drives in a case, all mashed right next to each other, you need to have some significant active cooling on the drives.

There's just no way a 20-drive server is going to be quiet, not if you want the drives to last a while.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

Also, I wanted a tower style case due to the fact that it can be conscealed in a computer desk and with the door closed, help with the noise.

Not many desks will hold a full tower server case. The 590 is mid tower but it's still slightly bigger than the Norco. (The Norco is deeper though) 17.32" x 20.08" X 8.27" (cooler master) vs 16.9" x 25.5" x 7.0" (norco)

Once of the things that did have me a little concerned is that some of the reviews said it was "quiet for a server". Not sure how quiet that would be and especially if I have to have it exposed on the computer desk rather in the tower location where mine currently resides.

If you plan on having more than a few drives I don't think you'll ever get it to be truly quiet. It's hard enough to get desktops quiet. You'd really be better off putting it in a closet or garage depending on your climate and house, (I wouldn't want it in my living room either) it is a server. The Cooler Master case won't be quiet (nor cool) with that many drives either; at least the Norco was designed to deal with the heat of 20 drives.

It does look good though and I may go with that since it is ultimately cheaper like you said. However, my initial cost would be less because I would only purchase the tower and one sata backplane wich would only be around $150 start up cost instead of the $290 price for the Norco, well at least the price on newegg.

I'd look at long run needs/requirements/costs over start up. You'll also need a slim DVD drive (or an external) for the Norco case.

I'm torn right now and probably won't make my decision until I use up the remaining slots I have available, which is 3 more HDD's. So I have a little time to decide.

With larger drives available; 3 drives could be a week or two.

Good luck either way...

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by stanger89

That doesn't seem like the best idea, HDDs need to be kept cool, and stuffing a bunch in a closed cabinet is a recipie for trouble.

The number one enemy of HDDs is heat, they need to be kept cool if you want them to last. A couple drives you can usually get away with basically passive cooling in a normal case. But when you start craming three, four, five, ten, fifteen drives in a case, all mashed right next to each other, you need to have some significant active cooling on the drives.

There's just no way a 20-drive server is going to be quiet, not if you want the drives to last a while.

stanger89,
Thanks for your input. You have very valid points. So far my server tower I has 4 drives stacked over each other with fans blowing directly on them. They stay cool, at least I think so (34 C is the worst) and not to loud. I know the more fans you have the more noise but I just wasn't sure how loud it would be.

Thanks,
Chuck

[crarbo1]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Not many desks will hold a full tower server case. The 590 is mid tower but it's still slightly bigger than the Norco. (The Norco is deeper though) 17.32" x 20.08" X 8.27" (cooler master) vs 16.9" x 25.5" x 7.0" (norco)

If you plan on having more than a few drives I don't think you'll ever get it to be truly quiet. It's hard enough to get desktops quiet. You'd really be better off putting it in a closet or garage depending on your climate and house, (I wouldn't want it in my living room either) it is a server. The Cooler Master case won't be quiet (nor cool) with that many drives either; at least the Norco was designed to deal with the heat of 20 drives.

I'd look at long run needs/requirements/costs over start up. You'll also need a slim DVD drive (or an external) for the Norco case.

With larger drives available; 3 drives could be a week or two.

Good luck either way...

S_M_E,
Thanks for the reply. I think I could fit that tower in my desk but it would only be needed to help with noise some.

I know nothing like that would be truely quiet but I didn't want it to sound like a jet engine. I won't have this in my living room. This will be in my office and I don't want it to be too loud due to phone calls.

I will probably go with the norco once I truely need it but that will be some time off. I'm not adding that much data to need it in a few weeks but months is somewhat possible. Just in the planning stages now, so when it is time to do this I will be prepared.

Thanks for the input!

Chuck

[something fishy]

The Norco case looks attractive in my opinion. If I could have sourced it (or something comparable) locally I would certainly have considered it. The all in cost is certainly good measured against a Stacker full tower case and 3x Sata backplanes (sata backplanes offer low perceived value IMO)

As it is I’m very happy with my coolermaster stacker – all drives that I can monitor temps on (some of the Sata controllers don’t pass SMART info) run at acceptable and extremely stable temps and the full tower form (on casters which are important given the weight of this thing) fits my needs.

I mentioned that the Stacker’ noise levels were acceptable for it to live in the corner of my office. That doesn’t mean that it is quiet (logistics mean that it has to be in my office so "bearable" is probably a better description) and I wouldn’t want it on or under my desk. It has high speed fans on each of the three backplanes, two 150mm exhaust fans on the back (reasonably quiet but far from silent as they run relatively fast) and one 80mm exhaust fan on the top (ditto). Add to this the PSU fans and it’s not by any stretch of the imagination a quiet PC.

BTW I wouldn’t stick it in a small cupboard/closet; it raised the temperature of my office appreciably over the short Hong Kong winter (the room is about 15 by 8 feet).