Hard drive size for WHS

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Any share that is duplicated on a multi-drive WHS is safe. If it's a one-drive system, no. If duplication is off and data is on D, no. You can sometimes (not always) lose some backups if any drive fails but there's an add-in to backup the backups too.

I hope this is not a stupid question, but if you want your data duplicated on a multi-drive WHS system then you're going to have to have at least as much free space available as you have files you want to back up right? So if I have 1TB of saved tv shows and movies, then I need at least 2TB just for that and then enough for the OS. So does that mean I'd need about 2.5TB just to start, and then on top of that double whatever spare recording capacity I want?

[S_M_E]

Yes, assuming that you want everything duplicated. Conventional wisdom is to disable duplication on the WHS recording share due to performance reasons but I'm currently experimenting with enabling duplication for that too.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Yes, assuming that you want everything duplicated. Conventional wisdom is to disable duplication on the WHS recording share due to performance reasons but I'm currently experimenting with enabling duplication for that too.

But if you don't duplicate the recording share, then, assuming you are only using the WHS server for Sage TV, what else would be left to duplicate (other than maybe the OS and the SageTV software, which you can reinstall anyway)?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

But if you don't duplicate the recording share, then, assuming you are only using the WHS server for Sage TV, what else would be left to duplicate (other than maybe the OS and the SageTV software, which you can reinstall anyway)?

The OS doesn't get duplicated (although I do back up the Sage dir), only shares in the pool get duplicated. I don't use WHS for *just* SageTV but I do duplicate my music, photo and imported video shares which are mapped to Sage.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

The OS doesn't get duplicated (although I do back up the Sage dir), only shares in the pool get duplicated. I don't use WHS for *just* SageTV but I do duplicate my music, photo and imported video shares which are mapped to Sage.

I guess I am really concerned about backing up as one of the many reasons I am switching to SageTV is that currently I can only back up my SA8300HD PVR by using my DVD recorder. Also, the programs, whether HD or SD, can only be backed up in SD format. And, then, to top it off, the backing up takes as long as the show is long.

As such, given the hassle, I never backed the SA up. And I've already had my previous external cable box PVR drive die already once, along with over 200 hours of programming on it.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I guess I am really concerned about backing up

Then enable duplication on shares with important data. Most people don't worry as much about TV because much of it can be recorded again or it gets deleted after it's watched anyway. Ripped DVDs, CDs (because of the time it takes to rip) and photos are usually considered more critical. If you're worried about TV too, enable duplication on your recording share and see if performance is an issue or move important archived shows to another duplicated share.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Then enable duplication on shares with important data. Most people don't worry as much about TV because much of it can be recorded again or it gets deleted after it's watched anyway. Ripped DVDs, CDs (because of the time it takes to rip) and photos are usually considered more critical. If you're worried about TV too, enable duplication on your recording share and see if performance is an issue or move important archived shows to another duplicated share.

In SageTV, can you record different shows to different shares and then just make sure the critical shows are being recorded to the shares that are being duplicated?

[S_M_E]

I don't think you can specify by show but you can manually move important shows anywhere you want. For example you might record to a "SageTV" share and move archived TV to an "ArchivedTV" share while storing your ripped DVD (etc) movies to the WHS default "Videos" share. You can make it as complicated or simple as you want.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I don't think you can specify by show but you can manually move important shows anywhere you want. For example you might record to a "SageTV" share and move archived TV to an "ArchivedTV" share while storing your ripped DVD (etc) movies to the WHS default "Videos" share. You can make it as complicated or simple as you want.

Except for stuff I really like or reference material, 99% of the time I'm a watch once and return to the rental store type of guy when it comes to DVDs (as I am with books, which is why I only ever get them from the library). I guess maybe I'll go for the duplicate all on the recording share option, as 1TB is under $100 USD these days and I do delete most shows.

But now I am thinking, is it possible to enable duplication to a separate drive? Because, if not, then if the share and its duplicate are on the same drive and the drive fails then you lose your only copies.

[S_M_E]

You can enable duplication on all shares, maybe there won't be any performance issues now. I'm still testing. It used to be that the disk migrator service affected performance but there have been changes to the way it works and now we can use 64K clusters which helps too.

WHS duplication always puts the duplicate on another drive, that's why you need at least two drives to use it.

[jack_leach]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

Yes, assuming that you want everything duplicated. Conventional wisdom is to disable duplication on the WHS recording share due to performance reasons but I'm currently experimenting with enabling duplication for that too.

S M E, have you done any more testing with duplication enabled on your WHS recording share? I'd really like to do this but I don't want to run the risk of messing up the quality or stability of my recordings.

[briands]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

I think you mean RAID 1. That "external device" is the only RAID that I would even consider for the WHS system drive but even still I'm not ready to recommend it myself. Not without a few more tests that I'd like to see anyway.

I used to suggest that only the additional pooled drives be converted but now I believe that the benefits of converting the D partition (not C) outweighs the downside if used with Sage for a number of reasons.

Dragging out an old thread... anyone care to share what the "external device" RAID 1 solution referenced here?

[gplasky]

What he is referring to is an external device that will hold 2 drives and all the RAID 1 mirroring is done internal to the device. When plugged into WHS it would only appear as a single drive. I have actually worked with a device that holds 2 x 2.5" drives and does hardware RAID1 (or JBOD) and plugs into a SATA port. As far as WHS is concerned it sees it only as a single drive. Both drives are hot swappable and will notify you of a failure of either drive and rebuilds in the background. I may be able to find you the info later tonight.

Gerry

[PhilH]

Originally Posted by gplasky

What he is referring to is an external device that will hold 2 drives and all the RAID 1 mirroring is done internal to the device. When plugged into WHS it would only appear as a single drive. I have actually worked with a device that holds 2 x 2.5" drives and does hardware RAID1 (or JBOD) and plugs into a SATA port. As far as WHS is concerned it sees it only as a single drive. Both drives are hot swappable and will notify you of a failure of either drive and rebuilds in the background. I may be able to find you the info later tonight.

Gerry

I'd be interested in that also.

Thanks

[gplasky]

This is an internal version that fits in a 3.5" bay.

Sans Digital InstaRAID

Newegg carries it. Last time I looked it was $99. Or buy direct. Stick a couple of 2.5" 320 GB drives (or smaller) and you begin to overcome WHS limitation of backing up it self. Mirroring isn't a substitute for backing up. You still want to back up the OS but chances are you won't have both drives dying at the same time. Buy your drives from different vendors so you don't have a sequentially built pair. Less chance of the same thing going ewrong on both of them. You could also stick a couple of SSDs in there if you wanted.

Gerry

[PhilH]

Originally Posted by gplasky

This is an internal version that fits in a 3.5" bay.

Sans Digital InstaRAID

Newegg carries it. Last time I looked it was $99. Or buy direct. Stick a couple of 2.5" 320 GB drives (or smaller) and you begin to overcome WHS limitation of backing up it self. Mirroring isn't a substitute for backing up. You still want to back up the OS but chances are you won't have both drives dying at the same time. Buy your drives from different vendors so you don't have a sequentially built pair. Less chance of the same thing going ewrong on both of them. You could also stick a couple of SSDs in there if you wanted.

Gerry

Thank you for the info.

[mguebert]

On my homebuilt whs server I used a usb stick to download the ICH10r drivers, created a Raid 1 pair out of two 120gb laptop sata drives (so it would fit in the top of my norco case).

Booted into whs using the F6 to load the ICH10r drivers and proceeded to install WHS normally. There was a workaround I cannot remember that I used to size the C partition larger (I used 100gb / 20gb) to prevent space becoming an issue for applications.