HD200 Output Overscan

[swats]

Is there a way to set overscan for the video output of the HD200? I have changed the setting in the Setup, but it seems to only affect the UI...

[Slack]

Originally Posted by swats

Is there a way to set overscan for the video output of the HD200? I have changed the setting in the Setup, but it seems to only affect the UI...

+ 1 for this. I noticed exactly what you described. The network 'bug' always seems too far to the edge(s) when I compare it to my Sage server which is connected to a Plasma via DVI. My extender is connected to CRT via component.

[m1abrams]

This does not answer or solve your issue. However wanted to add my name in the list of people needing this feature.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39729

This could be solved if they would also let us define our own zoom levels, I know I can ADD zoom levels but I do not need the 4 default ones and would not want to have 5 or 6 that makes the issue of having so many worse.

Ideally though we should be able to define a global overscan to match out display. On my display non-HD content that is recorded by my HDHomerun I get the CC data at the top of the screen.

[Taddeusz]

Apparently this depends on how your HTDV handles YUV and RGB inputs from HDMI or DVI. I found this out after going back and forth with support for a long time on my HD100.

With the latest beta firmware for the HD100 they made a change so that if the TV says that it is capable of YUV over HDMI it will default to that versus RGB. Previously the HD100 was fixed to RGB. They made this change for video output quality reasons. TV video is YUV so there is a color conversion happening to output it to RGB. Obviously if the video stays in YUV it is going to be of slightly higher quality.

The reason a "problem" came up is that my HDTV treats YUV and RGB differently and it actually makes sense to me why. On my TV if the input is RGB the image is fit to the screen with no overscan. However, if the input is YUV the TV applies overscan and cuts the outside edge of the image off. I understand the reason for this. If the input is RGB then it is most likely a computer which you're not likely to want overscan on but if it's YUV it's mostly likely TV and should have overscan applied to cut off the CC garbage and such.

Now that I understand what's going on I actually prefer it overscanned since I no longer see the CC garbage on the top of the screen or the yellow line down the left side on one of the local networks. I like it so much that it ticks me off that my cable box outputs RBG and I don't see any way to switch it. So I'm stuck seeing the CC garbage if I watch live TV.

[m1abrams]

Well you bring up a good point that I will test when I get home. My TV supports either RGB or YUV. However it is a manual setting per input. I will try switching that and see if it makes a difference.

[Slack]

My extender is connected via component to a crt TV (not a monitor). What exactly does this mean to me? Just deal with it? Seems as though some adjustment would be nice.

I also have an xbox running XBMC on this display, and the overscan adjustment on it works for more than just the user interface. Maybe it's the craptastic nature of the display. Specifically, a 16:9 HD CRT from 'Insignia'. Yeah, try not to laugh.

[m1abrams]

Well I was playing around with my TV's settings last night. And one thing I noticed was I had the input for HDMI1 labeled "PC" because I use to have my Sage Server running as a client connected to this input. Now I had already disabled the PC setting for the input (separate setting) however when I changed the LABEL to anything other than "PC" the lines (CC data) at the top of the screen went away. I find it odd that my TV changes its settings based on input label, particularly when their is a separate setting just for making ANY input as a PC input. BTW the other PC setting adjusts the white level range.

FYI- My TV is a Samsung LCD if anyone is interested.

[ma22xx]

Did you ever find a fix for this? I'm seeing the same issue on both my tvs with the hd200. It's not the worst thing in the world but coming from a pc client that showed the full picture it's an annoying bug.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by ma22xx

Did you ever find a fix for this? I'm seeing the same issue on both my tvs with the hd200. It's not the worst thing in the world but coming from a pc client that showed the full picture it's an annoying bug.

I don't know that its necessarily a bug. TV has always had an amount of overscan. Even some HD broadcasts expect that there will be overscan.

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by ma22xx

Did you ever find a fix for this? I'm seeing the same issue on both my tvs with the hd200. It's not the worst thing in the world but coming from a pc client that showed the full picture it's an annoying bug.

Well my post above shows that the issue I had was with the TV not the HD200. My mistake was treating the hd200 as a pc client, which the TV treats differently.

[ma22xx]

Sorry, bug may be too harsh. I guess it's a feature request then...to be able to control the amount of overscan on the video. Coming from the PC client it's distracting. I know that the video recorded off the hd satellite should have letterboxing on it to fit my tv properly but with the hd200 there is none. My wife doesn't notice the difference but I can't help but notice everybodies hair is getting cropped and that the network logos don't always make it on the screen. I don't see any options on my tv for RGB or YUV, so I may be stuck. I was just curious if there were any other options available or if this is just one of the quirks one must except for the convenience of the HD200. I'm testing them out as replacements for my pc clients and this is the only issue left that would make me want to stick with the PC.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by ma22xx

Sorry, bug may be too harsh. I guess it's a feature request then...to be able to control the amount of overscan on the video. Coming from the PC client it's distracting. I know that the video recorded off the hd satellite should have letterboxing on it to fit my tv properly but with the hd200 there is none. My wife doesn't notice the difference but I can't help but notice everybodies hair is getting cropped and that the network logos don't always make it on the screen. I don't see any options on my tv for RGB or YUV, so I may be stuck. I was just curious if there were any other options available or if this is just one of the quirks one must except for the convenience of the HD200. I'm testing them out as replacements for my pc clients and this is the only issue left that would make me want to stick with the PC.

The only option would be to send a request directly to SageTV to allow switching between RGB and YUV output over HDMI.

[m1abrams]

Originally Posted by ma22xx

Sorry, bug may be too harsh. I guess it's a feature request then...to be able to control the amount of overscan on the video. Coming from the PC client it's distracting. I know that the video recorded off the hd satellite should have letterboxing on it to fit my tv properly but with the hd200 there is none. My wife doesn't notice the difference but I can't help but notice everybodies hair is getting cropped and that the network logos don't always make it on the screen. I don't see any options on my tv for RGB or YUV, so I may be stuck. I was just curious if there were any other options available or if this is just one of the quirks one must except for the convenience of the HD200. I'm testing them out as replacements for my pc clients and this is the only issue left that would make me want to stick with the PC.

This sounds like more than an overscan issue. Sounds like you are either using one of the Zoom settings within SageTV or that your TV is setup to Zoom/Stretch.

The issue I had was more subtle than what you describe, I was actually seeing too much of the signal but only by a few pixels. Nothing to the extent you describe.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by ma22xx

Sorry, bug may be too harsh. I guess it's a feature request then...to be able to control the amount of overscan on the video. Coming from the PC client it's distracting. I know that the video recorded off the hd satellite should have letterboxing on it to fit my tv properly but with the hd200 there is none. My wife doesn't notice the difference but I can't help but notice everybodies hair is getting cropped and that the network logos don't always make it on the screen. I don't see any options on my tv for RGB or YUV, so I may be stuck. I was just curious if there were any other options available or if this is just one of the quirks one must except for the convenience of the HD200. I'm testing them out as replacements for my pc clients and this is the only issue left that would make me want to stick with the PC.

Yeah, this definitely doesn't sound like an overscan issue. Overscan is on the order of 5% of the picture, all the way around. Some TVs it's less, some it's more, just depends on the TV (and it's the TV that adds it), some TVs even have an overscan setting to adjust it.

If there is letterboxing, it should easilly be visible regardless of the amount of overscan. I think you've got an aspect ratio problem. To resolve that we'll need more info:

What resolution is your source outputting?
What aspect ratio/display shape is your source set to?
What's your capture device?
What's your display's aspect ratio?
What resolution are you feeding it?
What's the "Display Aspect Ratio" setting on your HD200?

[ma22xx]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah, this definitely doesn't sound like an overscan issue. Overscan is on the order of 5% of the picture, all the way around. Some TVs it's less, some it's more, just depends on the TV (and it's the TV that adds it), some TVs even have an overscan setting to adjust it.

If there is letterboxing, it should easilly be visible regardless of the amount of overscan. I think you've got an aspect ratio problem. To resolve that we'll need more info:

What resolution is your source outputting?
What aspect ratio/display shape is your source set to?
What's your capture device?
What's your display's aspect ratio?
What resolution are you feeding it?
What's the "Display Aspect Ratio" setting on your HD200?

-It's a dish network VIP211(?) HD sat box, I think it's set to display source. I'll have to check that again when I get home to see.
-Again, not entirely sure. Is that seperate from the resolution then? I'll play around with the settings on the sat box tonight and report back what I can find.
-Capture devices are an ATI OTA Tuner, an AverTV A180, and an HD-PVR for the satellite
-Display's Aspect Ratio is 16x9
-HD200 is set to 1920x1080i using component. I've tried all settings below that...1080p is not supported by my TV
-Display Aspect Ratio is set to 16x9 which shows up as a nice circle. I've tried adjusting as a test and it didn't seem to have much noticable difference on the overscan...it really messes up the picture though if i mess with it too much.

I think the OTA content is showing up at a decent size...I don't usually notice much wrong with that. The podcasts and HD Sat stuff is where the real issue is. On my client PC I had to set the OTA stuff to use the Fill setting, then used Source for the HD-PVR/Podcasts. When viewing the Sat stuff on the client it's not crazy letterboxing, but there is a good sliver of black bars that need to run along the top and bottom of the tv for the width to fit. This black stuff is completely gone on the HD200. Stranger89 may be on the right track with the source content settings...I just didn't go there first as the settings they are at work well on the pc clients.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by ma22xx

-It's a dish network VIP211(?) HD sat box, I think it's set to display source. I'll have to check that again when I get home to see.

They don't have a source output, if they do, I'd like to know

-Again, not entirely sure. Is that seperate from the resolution then? I'll play around with the settings on the sat box tonight and report back what I can find.

If you pick an HD resolution, you might not have a choice, but I know with 480i/p you have options for if you want that video letterboxed or not.

-Capture devices are an ATI OTA Tuner, an AverTV A180, and an HD-PVR for the satellite
-Display's Aspect Ratio is 16x9
-HD200 is set to 1920x1080i using component. I've tried all settings below that...1080p is not supported by my TV
-Display Aspect Ratio is set to 16x9 which shows up as a nice circle. I've tried adjusting as a test and it didn't seem to have much noticable difference on the overscan...it really messes up the picture though if i mess with it too much.

I think the OTA content is showing up at a decent size...I don't usually notice much wrong with that. The podcasts and HD Sat stuff is where the real issue is. On my client PC I had to set the OTA stuff to use the Fill setting, then used Source for the HD-PVR/Podcasts. When viewing the Sat stuff on the client it's not crazy letterboxing, but there is a good sliver of black bars that need to run along the top and bottom of the tv for the width to fit. This black stuff is completely gone on the HD200. Stranger89 may be on the right track with the source content settings...I just didn't go there first as the settings they are at work well on the pc clients.

There shouldn't be any letterboxing with the a VIP211 set to HD output, and HDPVR, an HD200, and an 16:9 HDTV. At least not on HD channels. The only time you should see bars with HDPVR recordings of a VIP211 on an HDTV is on the sides (vertical bars) of SD channels, or the occasional annoying pillarboxed, letterbox broadcast.

I'm guessing your client is a PC with a 16:10 monitor and not a 16:9 HDTV.

[ma22xx]

The TV is an older Sharp 55R-WP4H RPTV. I thought it was 16x9, but I never actually measured it. I think maybe I'm just being overly picky about the overscan...I'm used to being able to see the closed caption stuff at the top of the screen at times. Right now my wife is watching FOX and the logo at the bottom right is completely on the screen but just barely. If I goto the menu and look at the preview playing at the bottom, you can see there's some more picture to the right of the logo that is getting cut off. This is on the OTA recording...so I have no settings to change on that. Does that match what you see...or is the picture you see full screen look the same as what you see in a preview window? I still need to look at the sat box but probably won't get the chance tonight.

[stanger89]

RPTVs often have quite a lot of overscan. As far as the preview screen, I don't use it, and my displays allow for adjusting/eliminating it at the display. My 16x9 display has no bars on 16x9 content at all.