Commercials

TunaBoo · #1 03-13-2004, 01:03 AM

I searched the forum but couldn't find out. Why doesn't sage TV auto skip commercials? Technical reasons? Copyright reasons?

Whatever the reason, its my least favorite think about my sageTV

phenixdragon · #2 03-13-2004, 06:20 AM

It was just never added. Now I do not know if it will be in the future or not but there is so much more that is wanted then a feature like this. Along with 2.0 being developed there are still key faetures not added. As for me, this would be last on my list and I wouldn't even use it.

Opus4 · #3 03-13-2004, 09:10 AM

How is commercial skipping supposed to work? I can't imagine that a special code is transmitted that says "commercial about to start/end". I've never used anything that has automatic commercial skip, so I don't know how well it works... and if they don't work 100%, then I woudn't trust it & it would never get turned on.

- Andy

glbrown · #4 03-13-2004, 09:27 AM

Yea, I'd like to also know how this works. I see how it could detect a black screen as the sources change but I see that within content too.

phenixdragon · #5 03-13-2004, 09:35 AM

I'm not sure how it works but I have seen it work on VCRs a few years ago. But it didn't always work and it even would fast forward the TV show thinking it was a commercials. I know that ReplayTV did this but I never did take a look at it. But to me it is more of a pain to miss something, maybe not even notice until later on, and then have to rewind/fast forward to watch what I missed.

Opus4 · #6 03-13-2004, 09:44 AM

Yes -- that's my point too. With a VCR, you would at least see it playig fast through the show & could stop it, but with SageTV skipping past things, you would never know what you missed. If it really worked by noticing fades in/out, I would probably miss half of Frasier, for example. That might not be a bad thing to have done over the last couple seasons, though...

- Andy

fidget · #7 03-13-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opus4
How is commercial skipping supposed to work? I can't imagine that a special code is transmitted that says "commercial about to start/end". I've never used anything that has automatic commercial skip, so I don't know how well it works... and if they don't work 100%, then I woudn't trust it & it would never get turned on.

- Andy

From what I remember seeing, commercial skipping triggers off of some "characteristics" of commercial breaks. The two that I remember are the brief period of black screen (which isn't always there) and the increase in volume. The volume change is suppose to be more reliable, although the networks say that commercials are not louder that the regular program (and I believe them too, yep, sure thing, gotcha).

Cayars · #8 03-13-2004, 10:11 AM

To give you guys an idea how SS's BTV does it. After it records a show it then has a process that reads the mpg file and creates an XML containing start and stop points where "chapters" start and stop.

When you are playing the file in the GUI it will mark the white time line with a yellowish/orange color where it thinks the commercials are. It does not automatically skip the commercials on playback. Instead, when you are viewing the show and hit the first in the series of commercials you hit a button on the remote to skip to the end of the yellowish/orange section and jump to the end of the commercials.

For most shows it works pretty well. It does get confused sometimes but because it doesn't skip these sections automatically it lets you be the driver. On shows that it doesn't seem to be quite correct on you can manually drive and skip the commercials the way you always do.

Carlo

Opus4 · #9 03-13-2004, 10:17 AM

Thanks for the info -- that doesn't sound too bad, especially the non-automatic part.

And, I too really do believe the networks when they say that BUY MORE PEPSI the ads are not any louder than the shows.

- Andy

pheitman · #10 03-13-2004, 11:40 AM

This would be nice if only because VideoRedo apparently has support for BTV's commercial detection and will use that to assist it cutting out commercials. I bet that we could get support for Sage's list of commercials if that existed.

phenixdragon · #11 03-14-2004, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cayars
To give you guys an idea how SS's BTV does it. After it records a show it then has a process that reads the mpg file and creates an XML containing start and stop points where "chapters" start and stop.

When you are playing the file in the GUI it will mark the white time line with a yellowish/orange color where it thinks the commercials are. It does not automatically skip the commercials on playback. Instead, when you are viewing the show and hit the first in the series of commercials you hit a button on the remote to skip to the end of the yellowish/orange section and jump to the end of the commercials.

For most shows it works pretty well. It does get confused sometimes but because it doesn't skip these sections automatically it lets you be the driver. On shows that it doesn't seem to be quite correct on you can manually drive and skip the commercials the way you always do.

Carlo

Ohhh I like this idea.

TunaBoo · #12 03-14-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cayars
To give you guys an idea how SS's BTV does it. After it records a show it then has a process that reads the mpg file and creates an XML containing start and stop points where "chapters" start and stop.

When you are playing the file in the GUI it will mark the white time line with a yellowish/orange color where it thinks the commercials are. It does not automatically skip the commercials on playback. Instead, when you are viewing the show and hit the first in the series of commercials you hit a button on the remote to skip to the end of the yellowish/orange section and jump to the end of the commercials.

For most shows it works pretty well. It does get confused sometimes but because it doesn't skip these sections automatically it lets you be the driver. On shows that it doesn't seem to be quite correct on you can manually drive and skip the commercials the way you always do.

Carlo

Most excellent idea.

mlbdude · #13 03-14-2004, 05:16 PM

The only problem was for me the sneaky networks and imperfect reception (I think). I get about an 80% success rate with properly generated chapters.

Only problem is that because it was not 100% I have to first check to see if a chapter exists, then jump the chapter, then jump back just a bit to be sure it did not go too far. After a bit it was faster for me to just use the 30 second skip

.

Replay was about the same for me so BTV does a pretty good job in my opinion.

Deadbolt · #14 03-14-2004, 05:18 PM

Another sweet thing is that my favorite MPEG2 editing tool is VideoReDo and it allows you to load the BTV SmartSkip xml file and then autoloads the cooresponding show with commercials ready for one touch removal!

Deadbolt

falchulk · #15 03-15-2004, 09:41 AM

I had a lot of issues with BTV's skip feature. It would work 70% of the time but then it would mark when the show cam back from break as the start and the next commercial as the end. If you used the automatic cut utility that is posted in BTV's fourm, it would cut a whole section of the show out. The networks are making it harder for they type of detection that BTV uses to work. There are other methods that use algorythms to determine if a commecial is detected. Mythtv was suppose to implement no less then 3 types of detection for the best result. I don't know if that was ever completed though.

Fluffdaddy · #16 03-15-2004, 12:40 PM

Careful
Big Hollywood sued the butt-hold off of sonic-blue/ReplayTV for having this feature. To the point of sonice blue going bankrupt, an of having the new owner DNNA removing it from all new units. Frey Technologies, LLC better have some mean lawyers on retainer

That being said CA was/is my favorite feature and I miss it when I'm using Sage over Replaytv............I use both, Sagetv for C-band and RPTV for cable

falchulk · #17 03-15-2004, 12:50 PM

BTV gets around that by not actually removing the commercials, they just mark the position. There is however a utility on the fourm there that removes them automatically. Also videoredo allows the same kind od editing to remove them.

Cayars · #18 03-15-2004, 01:13 PM

BTW, the courts has since ruled that the commercials can be removed.

falchulk · #19 03-15-2004, 02:25 PM

Cayars, I have not heard that. I cant seem to find that on the internet either. Can you provide a link on that?

Cayars · #20 03-15-2004, 02:55 PM

I haven't been able to find the verdict i was looking for but here are some links for now:

http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2001...01-11-all.html
http://www.sfbg.com/36/39/news_replay.html
http://www.wired.com/news/technology...,53064,00.html
http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/Newmark_v_Turner/
http://www.eff.org/IP/Video/Paramoun...y_reversal.pdf
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...playtv-sue.htm

Carlo

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