Question about Sage TV, that "other brand" of "snappy" PVR software, and the HD-PVR

[Savage1701]

I have been a user of that "other brand" of snappy PVR software, but like most of them I have had tons of problems getting it to reliably run the Hauppauge HD-PVR, which I know SageTV supports.

But, I've spent money on server and client licenses for the other software, and use it reliably for OTA HD recordings.

So, what I want to know is this:

1. Can SageTV and BTV coexist on the same CPU server, with BTV handling the OTA HD recordings and SageTV handling only the HD-PVR? Needless to say, the BTV app would only be programmed to recognize the OTA HD tuners and SageTV would only be programmed to recognize HD STB sources.

2. Along with the first question, does SageTV save its HD-PVR recordings in a format that can be read by BTV? In other words, my family is used to using BTV link on our TV. As long as SageTV writes the HD-PVR recordings to a directory BTV looks at, will BTV be able to play them as if BTV made the recording? I really don't want to have to do a seperate client just for SageTV's HD-PVR recordings. I also don't use smart commercial skipping or show squeezing or anything like that. I'm really only concerned with plain-vanilla .tp recorded show capabilities, not whether or not they can read each other's .xml files and such.

Thanks for any info.

[reggie14]

I'm not a BTV user, but I can make some reasonable guesses.

I think you could setup both Sage and BTV on a system as long as they don't share tuners.

I don't think you can get Sage to produce recordings that would appear in BTV just like BTV recordings. You certainly ought to be able to get the Sage HD-PVR recordings to appear in BTV, but it would be like you took some random video file you got off the net and put it in BTV. You wouldn't get the metadata associated with the recording, meaning you wouldn't see the title of the show (except, in the name of the video file), the description, etc.

Out of curiosity, why not give Sage a try (there's a trial available) and consider switching to Sage entirely? Most of the investment costs are the hardware, which you already have. Since you'd be forced to get SageTV Media Center anyway, it wouldn't cost you that much more to just get SageTV Client for the places where you're using BTV Link. And then you'd have the option of using the HD200 extender on your TV, which seems like a much better alternative to a PC-based client (more reliable, fewer video playback problems, quieter, more energy efficient, etc.).

[Savage1701]

Reggie, you are probably correct. I've spent a ton of time learning BTV quirks, but I've also learned a lot of special performance options that make it work great. I'd like to not have to start over again with that. And you are correct about the cost, although I would need at least 2 server and 2 client licenses, and that is substantial.

Does SageTV save the HD-PVR files as .tp files? I know BTV would not recognize metadata, but that can be edited pretty easily.

I think I should have maybe asked specifically about .tp files to begin with.

[stanger89]

HD PVR recordings are mpeg-2 transport stream (TS) files, with no embedded metadata.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Savage1701

Reggie, you are probably correct. I've spent a ton of time learning BTV quirks, but I've also learned a lot of special performance options that make it work great. I'd like to not have to start over again with that.

Before the extenders came around I spent lots of time tweaking Sage and decoders so things worked properly. I'd get things working right, but then I'd add an HD tuner, and have to start again. Then, I'd start playing H.264 files and have to start again. Then I'd switch from an Nvidia card to an ATI card, start having problems with the Purevideo decoders, and have to start again. It seemed like I was constantly tweaking stuff whenever I made any changes to my system.

Now, I don't think the HD extenders are perfect devices, but they almost entirely eliminated the need for constant teaks, even when making changes to the system. When I started doing firewire recording a few months ago I found I had to do tweaks on my PC-based client, but the HD100 played those files immediately.

And you are correct about the cost, although I would need at least 2 server and 2 client licenses, and that is substantial.

This is tangential, but out of curiosity, how is your system laid out? Why 2 servers? Are your 2 clients connected to TVs, computer monitors, or a combination? And, what hardware are you using for your client computers?

On the metadata issue, as stanger pointed out, the recording files themselves don't hold the metadata, nor does Sage have a separate file for each recording that stores metadata. Sage stores that stuff in one moderately large database file.

[Savage1701]

Basically I have 2 servers.

One of them handles OTA HD signals. We live in an area with a lot of HD OTA channels directly to the north and south of us. I have 5 OTA tuners on it.

The other server has a spare OTA tuner for north channels and the HD_PVR, since it is problematic and I did not want it messing up the main OTA server. I sort of sandboxed the HD-PVR onto a server of its own. The spare OTA tuner is seldom used.

At this time we have one client in our living room for viewing on our TV/HTPC setup.

The extender does sound intriguing. I have to admit.

Interesting to know SageTV stores Metadata as a large single file, and that it sets up recordings as .ts files, not .tp as BTV does.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Savage1701

One of them handles OTA HD signals. We live in an area with a lot of HD OTA channels directly to the north and south of us. I have 5 OTA tuners on it.

The other server has a spare OTA tuner for north channels and the HD_PVR, since it is problematic and I did not want it messing up the main OTA server. I sort of sandboxed the HD-PVR onto a server of its own. The spare OTA tuner is seldom used.

I wonder how necessary that is. Sage, at least, doesn't have a problem with having different channel lineups for different tuners. So, you wouldn't have problems with north and south pointed tuners. And, while the HD-PVR does seem to go down occasionally (for many people, at least), it doesn't seem to go down in a way that also takes down the server.

Interesting to know SageTV stores Metadata as a large single file, and that it sets up recordings as .ts files, not .tp as BTV does.

Yeah, and I'm not entirely sure how I feel about that. The metadata issue comes up occasionally on these forums. I think it would be nice if the metadata were in a more accessible place. Some users think Sage should use an open database, as opposed to the proprietary file format they use. Others think Sage ought to have something like an XML file for each recording that holds the metadata. I'm not sure what the right answer is.

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by reggie14

The metadata issue comes up occasionally on these forums. I think it would be nice if the metadata were in a more accessible place. Some users think Sage should use an open database, as opposed to the proprietary file format they use. Others think Sage ought to have something like an XML file for each recording that holds the metadata. I'm not sure what the right answer is.

If BTV can import .my file metadata, SageMC on SageTV will automatically create them in the recording directory... Here's what a .my file looks like:

title=American Experience
TVEpisode=We Shall Remain: Trail of Tears
TVOverview=Federal troops force thousands of Cherokee from their homes in the southeastern U.S., resulting in the deaths of 4,000 due to disease and starvation.
overview=Federal troops force thousands of Cherokee from their homes in the southeastern U.S., resulting in the deaths of 4,000 due to disease and starvation.
TVStartDate=4/27/09
TVStartTime=9:00 PM
TVEndTime=10:30 PM
TVFile=\\server\video1\tv\AmericanExperience-WeShallRemainTrailofTears-3880402-0.mpg
TVFirstRun=true
TVFavorite=true
TVManual=false
TVLibrary=false
TVGenre=Anthology/Documentary
TVOriginalAiringDate=4/27/09
TVChannelNumber=9
TVChannelName=KQEDDT
TVChannelDescription=KQEDDT (KQED-DT) San Francisco-Oak-San Jose
TVExternalID=EP0041880262

[Brent]

You can convert/import the BeyondTV metadata into SageTV's with the process described here

I used to really dislike the SageTV centralized database and it does still have its quirks, but I've gotten used to it and it is rarely a problem.