Final word on DVD .ISO support?

[blammo585]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but why is it necessary to rip the movie to ISO? If Sage will play the movie from a VIDEO TS/AUDIO TS folder, what difference does it make? I guess it's better to have one ISO file rather than a folder with 2 sub-folders, but what difference does that make? What's the benefit of having it an ISO? To me, the benefit of having it as a folder is that I don't have to find a way to mount it.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by blammo585

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but why is it necessary to rip the movie to ISO? If Sage will play the movie from a VIDEO TS/AUDIO TS folder, what difference does it make? I guess it's better to have one ISO file rather than a folder with 2 sub-folders, but what difference does that make? What's the benefit of having it an ISO? To me, the benefit of having it as a folder is that I don't have to find a way to mount it.

I can burn an ISO.

There's only one file - which is theoretically less error-prone when one is moving things around/copying things..... i.e. the .ISO has a name like "Amadeus.ISO"... and that's it. As opposed to a directory named "Amadeus" and files within it that have the same arcane names as the files within a hundred other movie-titled directories.

That being said, I'm probably doing .ISO more bc I was clueless when I started and .ISO worked....than any other reason.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PeteCress

I can burn an ISO.

You can burn folders too.

Of course I still don't get why people are so intent on burning a lot of discs they already own.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You can burn folders too.

Of course I still don't get why people are so intent on burning a lot of discs they already own.

And, in most cases, it's less expensive to buy a second copy of the movie than to buy a blank dual layer Blu-ray disc.

[stanger89]

Yeah, definitely way cheaper to rebuy the occasional destroyed/lost movie than to copy all your movies

[PeteCress]

As in the same .mpg format that OTA broadcasts get recorded in?

It has just dawned on me that PlaceShifter can recognize movies in .mpg format that I've copied to my "Videos" import directory.

The angle there would that when I've got a "keeper" movie that's been recorded OTA (e.g. Hotel Rwanda on PBS), I can copy it over to the "Videos" directory and then use the SageTV UI to delete it from recordings - thereby keeping the "Recordings" list from getting out of hand.

Agreed that there are several categories on "Recordings".... but my experience is that SageTV does not always put movies in the "Movie" category and there's no way to manually override.

So, bottom line, is there something that I'm missing that would argue against my ripping a DVD's MainMovie to .ISO and then using VideoReDo to make a .MPG out of it - instead of saving the .ISO?

[stanger89]

You lose chapters for one, and unless you remux the audio/video, you're likely to run into playback problems (happens lots when people disable VOB splitting and rename it to mpg).

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You lose chapters for one, and unless you remux the audio/video, you're likely to run into playback problems (happens lots when people disable VOB splitting and rename it to mpg).

You have to run the VOB through VideoRedo to convert the VOB program stream into a pure program stream.

[htpcmaniac]

Does Sage support playing ISO's of DVD movies? I have a ton of them and they stream better than regular VOB's do (and yes I do know what an ISO is). I remember the software not really handling these. Have the developers taken care of this yet or are they still idle on the issue. If that is the case, can sage use VLC for playback? It plays everything.

* merged *

[HeadHodge]

Originally Posted by blammo585

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but why is it necessary to rip the movie to ISO? If Sage will play the movie from a VIDEO TS/AUDIO TS folder, what difference does it make? I guess it's better to have one ISO file rather than a folder with 2 sub-folders, but what difference does that make? What's the benefit of having it an ISO? To me, the benefit of having it as a folder is that I don't have to find a way to mount it.

One reason I found to be a benefit using ISO's is that you can use the browser on the HD200 in standalone mode to find an ISO file and then play the whole movie with menu structures directly from the browser without having to first import all the DVD files into the HD200. AFAIK you can't do this when the DVD files are contained in a directory.

The same is probably true for BluRay movies too.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by HeadHodge

AFAIK you can't do this when the DVD files are contained in a directory.

Try playing the VIDEO_TS.VOB file.

[HeadHodge]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Try playing the VIDEO_TS.VOB file.

That works for DVD but what about BluRay?

I was also referring to the feature where Sage recognizes the ISO and displays a DVD icon that allows you to play it directly from the browser.

You can play the VOB because of it's file format but Ssge doesn't recognize it as a playable DVD.

One way I've seen on other implementations of Media players (I think it's WINDVD) is that when you click on the directory name, the player somehow looks at the directory contents and recognizes the direcotry as containing a valid Media structure and displays the appropriate icons and playback options. That would work, but Sage doesn't do that.

Another possibility is if a Media Player recognized certain Directory names, like lots of software already does for file extensions. For example for the movie "Bolt", it could be located in a directory named "Bolt.dvd" and then the Media Player would interpret the files contained in it as a DVD movie. But I don't know of any media players that do that.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by HeadHodge

That works for DVD but what about BluRay?

I was also referring to the feature where Sage recognizes the ISO and displays a DVD icon that allows you to play it directly from the browser.

You can play the VOB because of it's file format but Ssge doesn't recognize it as a playable DVD.

Actually Sage will import DVD or Blu-ray folder structures in standalone mode, and display them as a single media item.

Additionally, last night I discovered the above, that when browsing the network directly (not via the imported menu) you can play the VIDEO_TS.VOB file and it will act like a DVD.

[HeadHodge]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Actually Sage will import DVD or Blu-ray folder structures in standalone mode, and display them as a single media item.

Additionally, last night I discovered the above, that when browsing the network directly (not via the imported menu) you can play the VIDEO_TS.VOB file and it will act like a DVD.

Hi,

Yes I know all that. The only point I was trying to make is that the only way Sage recognizes a DVD in "browse mode" (which subsequently displays a DVD icon that can be played) is when the DVD files are contained in an ISO.

So even though it's true you can hunt down the VIDEO_TS.vob file and play it, Sage doesn't display that file as a playable DVD. I doubt a casual user would not know how to exploit this trick. And in addition there is no equivalent (that I know of) to do a similar thing with Bluray movies. I don't think there is a single .m2ts file that can be selected that would play the full movie with menus. I believe with BluRay you have to find and play the correct .pls (playlist) file to do so. Sage doesn't support this at all (in the browser). Edit: Come to think of it, Sage doesn't support the BluRay menu structure even when it's imported. I've imported several BluRay movies that I know have a Theatrical Cut and Directors Cut versions that cannot be selected when playing BluRay from Sage.

It's not really that big of a deal. I was just pointing out a benefit of ISO (albeit possibly a weak one) when using Sage. If the DVD is in an ISO, you can also delete the whole movie from Sage too. If it's not, I don't believe Sage supports deleting directories (just files).

I don't have any strong leaning for or against ISO, just pointing out the fact that you can do a few things more with the DVD in ISO format than when it's not while using Sage.

Regards

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by HeadHodge

Hi,

Yes I know all that. The only point I was trying to make is that the only way Sage recognizes a DVD in "browse mode" (which subsequently displays a DVD icon that can be played) is when the DVD files are contained in an ISO.

So even though it's true you can hunt down the VIDEO_TS.vob file and play it, Sage doesn't display that file as a playable DVD. I doubt a casual user would not know how to exploit this trick. And in addition there is no equivalent (that I know of) to do a similar thing with Bluray movies. I don't think there is a single .m2ts file that can be selected that would play the full movie with menus.

I'm not sure if you missed it, but in Standalone Mode, Sage displays DVDs and BDs (folder structures) as single media items, in the imported videos list.

I believe with BluRay you have to find and play the correct .pls (playlist) file to do so. Sage doesn't support this at all (in the browser).

How often do you use browse mode, rather than using a configured import directory though? That's the whole point of browse mode, to browse the file system, so of course you're going to see the individual files. I rarely use the network browser because it's significantly slower and more limited.

[HeadHodge]

Originally Posted by stanger89

How often do you use browse mode, rather than using a configured import directory though? That's the whole point of browse mode, to browse the file system, so of course you're going to see the individual files. I rarely use the network browser because it's significantly slower and more limited.

Actually I use browse mode quite a bit. I add 3 to 4 movies to my library per week. And it's faster for me to browse to my new movies and play them than to refresh my "complete" imported library of music (around 4000 titles), video, and pictures in order to see and play my 3 or 4 new movies.

[The Truth]

ISO files transfer better than folders with VOB files. ("ISOs are better because the single file can be kept open minimizing server connections and file/open close ops." quote from wrt).

Also, I have had VOB folders that when moved a couple times have become corrupted and unplayable... I have never had an issue with ISOs. (This hasnt happened for years... But has happened.) I also had a defrag that corrupted a VOB and made a movie not playable.


I don't use DVDs that much anymore, I usually convert them to playable file.
I currently am using folders with the DVDs I do have backed up because the lack of support for ISOs. I don't mind using VOBs. I would most likely convert back to ISOs if they were supported though.


I think there are much more important things to worry about than getting ISO support, with QAM, HD, and everything blowing up.

[Michelo]

Love to see ISO support for browsing. It is not fun to extract a 50gig blu-ray movie.

[KandA]

Just throwing in my 2 cents here. I would love native ISO support and would like to point out that the lack of ISO support hurt's the perception of Sage. On it's own, it isn't necessarily the deal breaker but when I talk to others about Sage and they find out that it doesn't properly support ISO's, they lose respect for Sage and it does factor in their willingness to try it.

ISO support is not rocket science and not having this basic functionality looks bad on the product. I remember inquiring about ISO support 3 years ago. I never imaged this still wouldn't be supported 3 years later.

Thx
K

[SilentBob]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You can burn folders too.

Of course I still don't get why people are so intent on burning a lot of discs they already own.

I want to weigh in on this debate. This seems more like a debate of Coke vs. Pepsi. I feel kinda like I walked into a restaurant and ordered a Coke to then be told by the waiter that they only carry Pepsi products. Then after telling the waiter to just bring me a water to instead receive a lecture from him extolling the virtues of Pepsi and telling me that I just need to learn to drink that instead of Coke.

Anyway, analogies aside, let me explain to you why I feel the ISO format is superior to a folder-based rip.

First, when I buy a new movie, the first thing I do is to rip it to my media server and to put the original disk/box into storage. That works great for playing the movies at home, but I've also got young kids and a DVD player in the car. When the kids want to watch a movie in the car I burn a copy from the media server and take it out to the car. Once the disk gets too dirty/scratched to play well (sometimes all that takes is 1 road trip) I throw away the scratched disk and burn a new one (blank DVDs are pretty cheap these days).

Using the ISO format certainly facilitates this procedure...it is MUCH easier to burn an ISO under almost any OS using any number of free command-line tools vs. having to rebuild the disk image.


Secondly....MD5.
It is easy to calculate the MD5 hash of a DVD.
It is also easy to calculate the MD5 of a file.
Consistently calculating the MD5 of a folder tree is much more difficult.
Using MD5, if I copy the file somewhere else I can easily tell that the file hasn't gotten corrupted in the process.
After burning a DVD I can quickly tell that the burn was successful because I know what the MD5 is supposed to be. Likewise after cleaning a dirty, lightly scratched disk I can quickly determine whether or not I need to burn a new copy based on a simple MD5 verification.
For windows users, grab a copy of the free program HashTab from beeblebrox, then you get easy access to the hash of any file right on the properties tab.


Based on these two reasons alone, if I MUST convert my collection from ISOs to folders, I will still maintain my original ISO files. Since 1TB drives are < $100 I would rather spend the extra money and still have my original superior file format...it is a lot easier to do that than it is to possibly have to re-rip.



Now, if SageTV has no intention of supporting ISO files, I wish a developer would just come out and simply say that it is too technically challenging and is considered a waste of time to address it. However, people need to stop telling the people who *want* ISO support that they are "doing it wrong."

If SageTV doesn't want to support ISOs, that is fine, there *are* work-arounds, however recognize that it *is* a deficiency/shortcoming and people have every right to make it a feature request.