HD200 and HD Audio

[dbone1026]

This has probably been asked already. Brent and I were having a discussion about playing HD audio (bitstream output of Dolby Digital True-HD, LPCM or DTS-MA playback) on the HD200. I have several of my Blu Rays that I threw into mkvs only keeping the HD audio track. For my mkvs that have an HD audio track like DTS or TrueHD I get no sound with the HD200, only video. For my Blu Ray mkvs that have AC3 as the audio track audio plays fine which is what I would expect. The HD200 is connection to my Panasonic Plasma via HDMI. I was under the impression that the HD200 does not support these audio tracks nor does it downmix which is why I get zero sound.

Brent mentioned that he has no problems with his Blu Rays, but he is playing back either from a BR Rom drive on his server or as a straight Blu Ray rip. I use MakeMKV and pull out only the main movie and the HD audio track. I am thinking it works for him because the BR disk or the full BR rip has alternative audio tracks aside from the HD audio track which can be used in the case that the HD audio track is not supported, so there is no real downmixing going on. Also, I believe the ability to use DTS downmix requires paying a license fee which I am not sure has been done for SageTV.

Is my thinking wrong (I hope so as my HD200 is almost useless since I am missing audio for nearly half my movies)?

[Narflex]

The HD200 can extract the 5.1 core bitstream (when present, haven't seen a case yet when it isn't though) from DTS-HD, DTS-MA and TrueHD and then pass that through over SPDIF/HDMI. Sounds like this isn't working for you for some reason; so please submit a bug report so we can see why. And if you're not using the beta firmware; that'd be your problem there. To get that; just enter '2382' on your remote on the system update menu.

Bug reports here: http://sagetv.com/bugs.html

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by Narflex

The HD200 can extract the 5.1 core bitstream (when present, haven't seen a case yet when it isn't though) from DTS-HD, DTS-MA and TrueHD and then pass that through over SPDIF/HDMI. Sounds like this isn't working for you for some reason; so please submit a bug report so we can see why. And if you're not using the beta firmware; that'd be your problem there. To get that; just enter '2382' on your remote on the system update menu.

Bug reports here: http://sagetv.com/bugs.html

I will give it a try, I am not running the latest beta software on the HD200 (I think maybe a month or two old). Fingers crossed that it will work, I will submit a bug if it does not. Thanks for the fast response.

[dbone1026]

I was running with the 20090403 beta software. I just updated to the latest beta software which is 20090616. I am sorry to report that I am still not getting any audio on my DTS/TrueHD mkvs. I will submit a bug as suggested. Once again, I appreciate the quick response.

[DMT]

Curious as I just experienced the same thing with 3 titles (Frost/Nixon, Valkyrie and W.) all with DTS-MA 5.1 audio that is not being passed through HDMI from the HD200 extender. SPDIF works. Titles with DolbyTrueHD 5.1 seem to pass SPDIF/HDMI through just fine.

Hope a solution can be found because SageTV + BD drive + HD200 is a fantastic combination.

[cat6man]

the reason the hd200 cannot send the HD audio intact (i.e.bitstreamed) over hdmi is that this requires hdmi1.3 and the hd200 h/w is hdmi1.2

the only way for the hd200 to support HD audio is to decode to pcm and send HD5.1pcm over hdmi, which can be done over hdmi1.2...............if i'm not mistaken, this is done in the HDI BD network media players so that should be a feasibility demonstration that it can be done in the HD200 with 863x chipsets............it probably requires sage to pay a license fee to have the sdk for HD audio so they can turn it on

this is my single highest priority 'want' for the hd200................the difference between the sound of the HD audio and the core 5.1 is huge

i hope that real Hd audio (and not just 5.1 core) is coming soon

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Narflex

The HD200 can extract the 5.1 core bitstream (when present, haven't seen a case yet when it isn't though) from DTS-HD, DTS-MA and TrueHD and then pass that through over SPDIF/HDMI.

I stream netflix blu-rays from the server to my HD200's - those disks occasionally do not have a 5.1 track on them - only DTS-HD/TrueHD. In those cases it has to downmix to 5.1 & I can then hear audio on those HD200's connected on either HDMI or optical for audio - works perfectly for me at least

Any Blu-ray's I've purchased have had all audio tracks I needed though so for the ripped ones it hasn't been an issue regardless

[stanger89]

FYI, HD DVD's TrueHD and DD+ tracks don't have a core stream.

Hey Jeff, you get that HBR decoding done yet?

[johnnytyler]

Originally Posted by stanger89

FYI, HD DVD's TrueHD and DD+ tracks don't have a core stream.

Hey Jeff, you get that HBR decoding done yet?

2nd that

[dbone1026]

All movies I get no audio with have the following audio track:

1 536 Kbps, 48.0 KHz, 6 channels, DTS

[razrsharpe]

Originally Posted by dbone1026

All movies I get no audio with have the following audio track:

1 536 Kbps, 48.0 KHz, 6 channels, DTS

the hd200 can not decode DTS natively; however, it can send the DTS soundtrack out as is (bitstream) via spdif/hdmi to be decoded by an external receiver or television. Most recent receivers are capable of this and most televisions are not. If you have the HD200 connected via rca (analog stereo) then you can not get sound from DTS soundtracks.

[Brent]

Right. Damian, do you have that HD200 hooked up to a receiver to decode? If you don't and your TV can't decode either that could be the problem. Some TVs can't decode so you still wouldn't get audio in that situation I think.

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by razrsharpe

the hd200 can not decode DTS natively; however,l it can send the DTS soundtrack out as is (bitstream) via spdif/hdmi to be decoded by an external receiver or television. Most recent receivers are capable of this and most televisions are not. If you have the HD200 connected via rca (analog stereo) then you can not get sound from DTS soundtracks.

Yeah, that is what I figured. Unfortunately my hope was eventually to get the HD200 into all the bedrooms in my house (connected via HDMI to TV), and obviously I won't have a receiver in each room. Looks like I will be scrapping that plan. I guess the HD200 would need to be able to downmix DTS for this to work with a tv and no receiver? I meant to test out these movies on my PCH as it is able to downmix DTS but of course it died on me yesterday

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by Brent

Right. Damian, do you have that HD200 hooked up to a receiver to decode? If you don't and your TV can't decode either that could be the problem. Some TVs can't decode so you still wouldn't get audio in that situation I think.

Brent - yes, sorry as I think I wasn't being clear, my original query was whether the HD200 could downmix HD Audio to play directly to a tv without a receiver involved. Had a root canal on Monday, not exactly at my sharpest right now!!!

[razrsharpe]

Originally Posted by dbone1026

Yeah, that is what I figured. Unfortunately my hope was eventually to get the HD200 into all the bedrooms in my house (connected via HDMI to TV), and obviously I won't have a receiver in each room. Looks like I will be scrapping that plan. I guess the HD200 would need to be able to downmix DTS for this to work with a tv and no receiver? I meant to test out these movies on my PCH as it is able to downmix DTS but of course it died on me yesterday

One option is to use clownbd, or eac3to and tsmuxer to reencode the dts soundtrack to ac3. check out this thread: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39903. Personally i dont do this because i have a receiver at my main location... and havent really thought about all the other locations...mmm... Anyway... helenweathers seems to have a pretty good solution for getting the dts into ac3... thats what i would reccommend... I would of course also include the hd soundtrack and the dts soundtrack for viewing at the main location (and when sage gets HBR decoding working )

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by razrsharpe

One option is to use clownbd, or eac3to and tsmuxer to reencode the dts soundtrack to ac3. check out this thread: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39903. Personally i dont do this because i have a receiver at my main location... and havent really thought about all the other locations...mmm... Anyway... helenweathers seems to have a pretty good solution for getting the dts into ac3... thats what i would reccommend... I would of course also include the hd soundtrack and the dts soundtrack for viewing at the main location (and when sage gets HBR decoding working )

Yeah, I have my HTPCs hooked up to receivers so I have never had problems passing through HD audio, only when I started looking at adding the HD200 to other locations throughout the house. How can you get the HD200 to pick up the correct audio track? For instance, for my Blu Ray mkv Taken I actually added an AC3 track along with the DTS track hoping it would play with the HD200, but still got no sound (see attached, maybe switch the AC3 track to the 1st spot and move the DTS to the second spot using tsMuxeR/MKVMerge)?

[razrsharpe]

yes i think the hd200 will play the default audio track (as defined by the video). So moving it to the first spot should work.

Also while watching a movie you can press options -> select Audio -> and pick the right soundtrack. Then the "good" soundtrack is still the default at your main watching location and you can switch to the ac3 soundtrack manually... mmmm.. you could probably write a little stvi that automatically switches to ac3 when a property item is set (like a new idonthaveareceiver property item... or something like that).

EDIT: is there a reason why are you putting bluray in an mkv container and not leaving as a bluray folder structure (even if using tsmuxer to strip out all the auxiliary soundtracks)?

EDIT #2: Also most/all? blurays include at least a 2.0 ac3 soundtrack... i would look at adding that to your rip... then you dont need to do any reencoding... especially since we are only talking about secondary (no reciever, soundsound) locations... the 2.0 ac3 should be fine

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by razrsharpe

EDIT: is there a reason why are you putting bluray in an mkv container and not leaving as a bluray folder structure (even if using tsmuxer to strip out all the auxiliary soundtracks)?

Part of the reason is because I have a hybrid system of SageTV and Windows 7 Media Center working at home on my 2 HTPCs. W7 does not like ts/m2ts VC-1 files which several of my Blu Rays are (ts/m2ts AVC files play fine). The only way to get them to play back properly without doing some major hacks is to throw into mkv using a program like MakeMKV.

Originally Posted by razrsharpe

EDIT #2: Also most/all? blurays include at least a 2.0 ac3 soundtrack... i would look at adding that to your rip... then you dont need to do any reencoding... especially since we are only talking about secondary (no reciever, soundsound) locations... the 2.0 ac3 should be fine

Yeah, I started doing that on my last few movies (I was testing with Taken), knowing that I can switch to that track with the HD200 should hopefully get this cleared up. Obviously 2.0 ac3 is more then good enough when just hooking up the HD200 directly to a TV.

Appreciate the help

[razrsharpe]

Originally Posted by dbone1026

Part of the reason is because I have a hybrid system of SageTV and Windows 7 Media Center working at home on my 2 HTPCs. W7 does not like ts/m2ts VC-1 files which several of my Blu Rays are (ts/m2ts AVC files play fine). The only way to get them to play back properly without doing some major hacks is to throw into mkv using a program like MakeMKV.

makes sense now

Obviously 2.0 ac3 is more then good enough when just hooking up the HD200 directly to a TV.

i should really start taking my own advice and do this with my bluray rips for the secondary locations.

Appreciate the help

no problem, glad i could help

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Hey Jeff, you get that HBR decoding done yet?

what he said.....................