Subscription Options ?

[LCH]

I don't see a "lifetime" subscription option - is there one ? Under consideration ?

I've avoided Tivo-like solutions because I have an HTPC and prefer to use it for ALL functions. I assumed that PC based PVR's would avoid recurring fees.

[dkardatzke]

We currently don't offer a lifetime option and I don't know when we would offer that as an option. However you can choose between the monthly or annual option.

It's hard to avoid a recurring/annual fee for fully integrated EPG solutions for PC based PVRs. Currently SageTV and WMCE are the only fully integrated solutions available for PC-based PVRs. Unless you consider the Gemstar guide for ATI fully integrated. Gemstar gets around the monthly fee by imbedding advertisements in their guide. Microsoft is, well Microsoft. (Actually a Microsoft rep at Comdex told me they had imbedded advertisments in their guide as well.

The reason we charge a fee for the data is because we have to pay for it from Zap2it. As you can see $4.95 month is well below Replay and TiVo from a monthly standpoint.

Hope that helps,
Dan

[RBTConsultants]

It's funny that everybody gripes about paying for EPG's. But for years people have paid for TV guide, and if you buy a TV guide every week it's more expensive than $5 a month. I used to buy the Sunday paper ($1.50 p/wk) just for the TV section before I got my Tivos. Actually I bought 2 Sunday papers because the one I actually like to read had a lousy TV guide, and the boring paper had the good TV guide :-)

And I did buy the lifetime for the Tivos, but that is for the lifetime of the Tivo, not my lifetime, and I had to buy one for each Tivo. I'm not sure how a PC-based PVR could come up with a lifetime model, and I think $50p/year is pretty fair.

My $.02

Bob

[RBTConsultants]

And not to mention I could never click on my TV Guide to record something, and it didn't automatically record things I like.

Bob

[edmc]

SageTV incorporates an EPG

That EPG data costs Frey Technologies on a recurring basis

Barring a Lifetime Option, let's just say it is only fair that
Frey charge a recurring fee for the EPG data

Do people thing the $5/month or $50/year is too much?

If too much, what would be a reasonable price?

I, for one, applaud the efforts by Frey to challenge the
status quo of others (typically $10/month etc...) by offering
the EPG at a lower price point.

On the other hand, should Frey offer a Lifetime Option, we
are all basically making an actuarial calculation. How long do
you think you will use SageTV? How long do you think Frey
will be around before the big-wigs see their value and buy
them out (hopefully making our friends @ Frey rich in the
process)?

I got the Lifetime Option on my ReplayTV but wonder if I'd pop
for the current $250 price if I were buying one today (it was only
$100 when I bought the Lifetime Option way back when). I really
don't know what I'd do with a Lifetime Optoin for SageTV either...

[RBTConsultants]

FYI - Tivo is now $13 a month and $300 for lifetime.

Bob

[donutman]

I do believe there are free options out there that Sage could have interfaced with, rather than taking on the cost of buying/setting up an epg on their own.

TitanTv works with similar software for instance.

[dkardatzke]

Donutman,

The reason we did not go with TitanTV is because it is not an integrated solution. You would have to launch their application in another window just to interface with the guide. Our goal was to have a fully integrated guide that you could view and command from your couch.

Dan

[Mark Lamutt]

Hi donutman,

I've used the titantv scheduler for some time now with my hipix cards, and to me it is really limited what you can do with it. The titantv website is SLLLLOOOOOWWWWW all the time, and at least half the time, their listings are wrong. You have to download a file from them everytime you want to schedule a recording, and when they change formats, you're out of luck until an update is released for your software.

I have none of these annoyances with SageTV, plus I get the added benefits of full guide searching 14 days into the futire, and it's always there, and always correct (at least more correct than anything else I've seen). Not to mention the fact that SageTV searches the guide for me and catches things to record that I wouldn't normally find. After you use SageTV for awhile, it gets really good at knowing what to record to suit my tastes. To me, all of that is well worth $5 a month.

(And while I'm an administrator at the site, I don't get paid by these guys for any of this. I'm a satisfied customer that has been using SageTV for more than 6 months now, and really love it.)

[RBTConsultants]

One question I would have is where does XMLTV get it's guide data for free? There is some development in some areas (TVLobby, part of Mainlobby for instance, or PICOGUIDE) that are getting their guide data for free from XMLTV. I don't know where that data originates from, of if they are just using the "Crack Cocaine" marketing model of get em hooked for free, then start charging (also know as the Bill Gates marketing model).

Bob

[Narflex]

I'd also really like to know where the XMLTV data comes from. I did LOTS of research into this before and it seemed like solutions such as XMLTV just scraped EPG information from websites. This is what Sage did when I first wrote it as a personal project (but I wrote my own scrapers). But for commercial use that's illegal because we're not allowed to redistribute that data extracted from their website. That's why we get our data from Zap2It (Tribune Media Services), and have ever since this turned into a commercial project.

[SHS]

Jeff it may supize you but XMLTV data comes from Zap2It and belive TitanTV and min other TV listings web site all it dose get XML web page and convert to reg microsoft access data base.
RBTConsultants XMLTV can't do that there open source code.

[Crazedz]

Well snapstream has written a tool to allow xmltv data to be imported into their showshifter and are advertizing on their website about no subscription fees tv listings and their selling that product so it is possible to do this.

http://www.snapstream.com

I did some looking around their forum and found this thread discussing this

http://discuss2.snapstream.com/vb/sh...?threadid=5214

So i guess it's not illegal to have a tool to import the data so it can be done if that makes sense.


Also i was looking at their Personal Video Station 3.0 and it looks awsome the menus and all look great as well as the way they setup the tv viewing and progress bars. But still no support for hardware encoder tuners though they are talking about trying to implament them after they get 3.0 out of beta. I still like sagetv as it ws written from the ground up to work with these types of tuners but i have to say it snapstreams looks much better except for that annoying livetv icon up in the corner while viewing ugh!

http://www.snapstream.com/Products/P...creenshots.asp

[dkardatzke]

SageTV's architecture supports an external EPG plugin so users can import their own data. We designed the application this way so developers could write a plugin and then interface with another Data source. I've heard some rumblings that a few people are working on these plugins but nothing formal yet.

This will then give our international customers a way to import their own guide data so they can experience the benefits of SageTV over SageRecorder.

Keep in mind that there are copyright and use restrictions on most data sources like Zap2it. Here's a portion of Zap2it's Term's of Use....

"All of the information, content and services (collectively, the "Content") within this Service are protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws. The Content is owned by Tribune Media Services (TMS) and its Zap2it.com division, or their affiliated companies, licensors or suppliers. The Content is intended for the personal use of users of the Service only. While you may interact with or download a single copy of any portion of the Content for your own personal, non-commercial entertainment, information or use, you may not and may not authorize others to reproduce, sell, publish, distribute, modify, display, repost or otherwise use any portion of the Content in any other way or for any other purpose without the prior written consent of TMS."

[Lester Jacobs]

The snapstream solution for getting guide data is exactly the point I tried to make on this forum in a previous post. I've been following both the Snapstream and Frey forums for some time now trying to decide which PVR I will buy.

I really initially liked the Frey solution since it supported my Creative card but the lack of guide data for Canada and the inability to import guide data into the Frey database is a showstopper. As soon as Frey either provides a way to import guide data (hopefully xmltv) or supports Canadian listings then I'll be buying their product.

In the meanwhile it looks like Snapstream might be the best bet (except that I wish they supported the Creative card). However the provision of some ability to import xmltv guide data is deciding factor for me. If Frey hasn't provided guide data import functionality by the time Snapstream releases then I'm afraid that I'll be heading over to Snapstream with my cash.

Lester

[Edit: Just saw Dan's post. This plugin architecture may be just the thing!]

[Lester Jacobs]

Originally posted by dkardatzke
SageTV's architecture supports an external EPG plugin...

Where do I get info on the plugin SDK? I'm interested in exploring this further.


Lester

[dkardatzke]

Email us at support@freytechnologies.com.

[SHS]

Lester no need get SDK I know somebody that working on it rigth now.
And yes xmltv Lester.

[Lester Jacobs]

Originally posted by SHS
Lester no need get SDK I know somebody that working on it rigth now.
And yes xmltv Lester.

Can you provide me with any contact info? I'd like to be a beta tester if possible...


Lester

[SHS]

When it ready Lester it be on SHSPVR