Recording back-to-back shows on one channel, plus record two separate PS off one TS

[MrFusion]

Hi,

I currently have a single DVB-T tuner for my SageTV setup (headless win 2k3 server, hd200s at each TV).

I have two issues which I hope you could help me with (apologies if this duplicates previous questions, but searching wasn't giving me great results):

• TV broadcasters in the area where I live are notorious for not commencing shows at scheduled times -- they regularly start the shows a number of minutes early or late.
  
  I therefore have to pad each recording by 15 minutes to catch most programs.
  
  This now causes me a real problem when I have scheduled recording of two shows back-to-back on one channel. Basically, Sage shows this as a conflict (presumably because the padding of both shows causes an overlap). Now, I can understand why you couldn't record two back-to-back shows, with padding, on different channels... but why is it an issue on one channel? Surely Sage could either a) copy the same data to two files during record, or b) do a copy after record... Am I doing something wrong? (FYI: I found the option to remove padding for back-to-back shows on one channel in the Customize setup menu, but this sort of defeats the purpose -- one of the programs recorded will not be complete, and you have to watch the other to get the rest. Furthermore, you can't delete this second program without losing some of the first).
  
  
• Being in DVB-T land, broadcasters send multiple (different) "channels" (program streams - PS) multiplexed into the one "frequency" (transport stream - TS). For some reason, I can't seem to schedule simultaneous recording of two PSs off the one TS with only one tuner.
  
  What am I doing wrong?

All hints & tips much appreciated!!

Thanks.

[GKusnick]

While both of those are theoretically possible, Sage currently supports neither. At present, it cannot capture to more than one file at a time from a single tuner. So for now the quickest and easiest (but not cheapest) way to get what you want is to add a second tuner.

[MrFusion]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

While both of those are theoretically possible, Sage currently supports neither. At present, it cannot capture to more than one file at a time from a single tuner. So for now the quickest and easiest (but not cheapest) way to get what you want is to add a second tuner.

Hi GKusnick,

Many thanks for your response!

Very disappointed that Sage can't do this, as it's a pretty common in other similar solutions (eg mythtv) to be able to pull different PSs from a single TS (after all, the tuner supplies the TS, and the player/recorder software then demuxes the chosen PS out of it -- so why can't we pull two or three streams out??!!).

In fact, it's downright ridiculous that I'd have to buy three tuners to record three PSs from the one TS. <muttering darkly>Seems like sloppy/lazy programming to me</muttering darkly>.

Anyone know if this is on the roadmap to implement?

Cheers!

[wallaceff]

I live in Australia, and I couldn't agree more! Its madness that in 2009, still can't just split a file in 2, with some overlap in each file!

[Taddeusz]

Since this is stricly a user-to-user forum making the suggestion directly to them via this link here would be the way to get their attention. They won't know it's an issue unless you voice yourself appropriately. Even if they do frequent the forums they aren't going to be able to tell the flotsam from the really important stuff.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by MrFusion

In fact, it's downright ridiculous that I'd have to buy three tuners to record three PSs from the one TS. <muttering darkly>Seems like sloppy/lazy programming to me</muttering darkly>.

Originally Posted by wallaceff

I live in Australia, and I couldn't agree more! Its madness that in 2009, still can't just split a file in 2, with some overlap in each file!

Unfortunately for you and those in EU/AUS, this functionality is almost useless in NA. The reason is our OTA stations almost always have very few substreams. Often there's just an SD version of the HD stream, and and other times, the other streams are "lame" (like the 24 hour weather/news loop).

I don't think I've ever had two shows from one stream scheduled at the same time. Heck I don't think I ever use more than the main HD substream, except every once in a while on PBS.

And beyond that we've got no direct access to satellite (DVB-S) where such functionality would be quite useful. Even with cable, the selection of recordable streams is paltry and rarely more than one channel on a stream.

The best hope for you, is if it becomes a trend for cable providers here to start making their whole digital standard package clear, which would increase the probability that this functionality would become useful in NA.

[Taddeusz]

Cox Cable in my area has four frequencies which carry the local HD channels. And it looks like they group two HD channels on a single frequency. In one case they group two of the local HD network channels and then also their respective SD weather feeds on a single frequency. In another case they're grouping two HD and a single SD.

This type of feature might actually be helpful to me as two of the channels I frequently record from at the same time are being transmitted on the same QAM channel.

[stlbearboy]

Remove Padding on back to back favorites should get rid of the conflict but you might not have all of one show together.
GB-PVR can do the multiple PS from on TS and it is free, but you need to find a reliable source for EPG.

[Taddeusz]

I'm sure this could be done but I don't know how easily due to the way SageTV does recordings. The way things work right now is that a dshow graph is created for each individual recording. Unless there is a filter that can be told to connect to x sub-stream at x time I don't see this happening. It seems that DirectShow might be the limiting factor in getting multi-stream recording done in SageTV. Take the following example:

Show 1 starts at 8:00PM and ends at 9:00PM. Show 2 starts at 8:30PM and ends at 9:00PM. Both channels are broadcast on the same frequency on separate subchannels. Using the current method of recording a separate dshow graph must be created for each recording which means two tuners. There may be a method with DirectShow to do this but I don't know.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I'm sure this could be done but I don't know how easily due to the way SageTV does recordings. The way things work right now is that a dshow graph is created for each individual recording. Unless there is a filter that can be told to connect to x sub-stream at x time I don't see this happening. It seems that DirectShow might be the limiting factor in getting multi-stream recording done in SageTV.

It's the limiting factor currently, but I bet it would be possible for Sage to make a demux filter that could split out several substreams to separate dump filters. Possible, maybe not easy.

[GKusnick]

I'm guessing that the issue has less to do with knowing how to do it than with knowing when to do it. To do it seamlessly, Sage would basically have to set up every recording graph to split out and capture all available substreams, just in case some client decides to tune in live to one of those programs after recording has started on another program in the same transport stream. Otherwise you get into a situation where it works sometimes but not others, seemingly at random, depending on what other clients are watching.

[MrFusion]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

...making the suggestion directly to them via this link here would be the way to get their attention....

Done. Thanks for the tip.

Will let you know if/when I get a response.

Cheers.

[MrFusion]

Hi,

Just got the generic "thanks for the suggestion, it will be passed along" response so far...

[Taddeusz]

I actually made a similar suggestion. They'll at least know that it is a desire among their users. They won't know otherwise.