SageTV vs. DirecTV HD-PVR - Who Wins?

[jsonnabend]

When I adopted SageTV three or so years ago, there wasn't anything else on the market that compared. I recently upgraded to HD via the HD-PVR. It was a painful upgrade, and I started questioning whether it was worth sticking with SageTV with so many new off the shelf offerings from Tivo, cable companies and satellite companies.

Ok, so the upgrade finally sorted out, and I forgot about possibly switching, until my HD cable box died and Time Warner said "yeah, we'll be there in three days." That's when I came across DirecTV's newest HD-DVR unit (https://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/conte...d_dvr_receiver).

DirectTV's unit does almost everything SageTV does for TV, and it seems to me the other SageTV features aren't all that compelling anyway (the picture viewer and music player are amateurish at best).

Why stick with Sage?

- Jeff

[HelenWeathers]

If you can live with 50 hours of HD recording space and only two tuners you might be OK with this.

If they ever get the DirecTV2PC software working or the software that let's you watch your recordings from another DirecTV receiver, that would be a plus as well. So far the software doesn't live up to the promises.

Got to DBSTalk.com and check through forum postings and you'll see the issues that they have are the same issues we have.

You can replace the internal drive with an external drive and get more space.

[mr_lore]

I dont see where it says it has automatic commercial skipping and single instance storage accessible by multiple TV clients or a placeshifter for that matter.

[paulbeers]

Yeah, my wife would never let me go to a single box/single television setup. She loves being able to watch anything that was recorded anywhere in the house. Further, we watch our DVD Movies thru Sage which we would never have with a commercial PVR.

[bhyman1]

I have both. Sage wins hands down.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Why stick with Sage?

Jeff,
It depends on what you can live with.
Pro's for DirecTV PVR:

• Easy - they put it in for you - no mucking with the stuff...
• It works for all channels without needing anything else

Pro's for SageTV (or other HTPCs)

• As much disk space as you want
• As many tuners as you care to pay for and install
• Commercial Skipping
• Transfer Shows to iPod/Zune/Whatever Player
• Record Once on Server & Access Multi-Room with "follow-me" behavior (i.e. start watching in room 1 and stop, pick up where you left off in room 2)
• DVD, Video, Blu-Ray Playback from HTPC server
• Music/Photos/Online Video
• If you ever switch from DirecTV you use the same hardware and it works exactly the same as it did before - same UI/Featureset etc.

It's simply a matter of your needs/wants. The cableco's and Satellite Co's keep slipping in improvements - and many will be (are) fine with those DVRs. But if you want more, that's where HTPCs come in.

[MitchSchaft]

This isn't even an argument.

[jsonnabend]

Well, some of the comments are off the mark.

• First, the HD-DVR is expandable by simply plugging in an e-sata drive. (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global...setId=P5980155)
  
• Second, with a relatively cheap computer at other tv's, you can watch content from any DVR on your network (https://www.directv.com/directv2pc). Using something like OpenVPN, you can stream across the internet as well. The "problems" with the software seem to be related to HDCP compliant cards, which shouldn't be an issue any more.
  
• Third, you can add additional boxes and then stream to tv's, but that's not quite as simple as Sage's single interface setup.
  
• It's true that you can't simply transcode to iPods, etc., but there is the HD-PVR option for that. Again, not as simple as Sage's non-DRM'd recordings.

For things like DVD rips and online videos, Sage isn't required, but a computer at the tv is. Same for pictures and music (which Sage largely is useless for anyway, in my opinion).

Comskip is definitely lacking in the HD-DVR.

I don't know. Plug and play HD recordings is appealing. I'm paid-up with SageTV for this release, but come the next pay upgrade, I'm going to seriously consider moving away.

- Jeff

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Well, some of the comments are off the mark.

First, the HD-DVR is expandable by simply plugging in an e-sata drive. (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global...setId=P5980155)

- Jeff

I don't consider the DVR expandable because the external drive REPLACES the internal drive. Also, the recordings on the internal drive are not available after setting up the external drive.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Well, some of the comments are off the mark.

First, the HD-DVR is expandable by simply plugging in an e-sata drive. (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global...setId=P5980155)

Great point. So You can add storage to DirecTV. Just know it doesn't just increase your hard drive space - it replaces the use of the hard drive in the box. But you're right ultimately

• Second, with a relatively cheap computer at other tv's, you can watch content from any DVR on your network (https://www.directv.com/directv2pc). Using something like OpenVPN, you can stream across the internet as well. The "problems" with the software seem to be related to HDCP compliant cards, which shouldn't be an issue any more.

Give that directv2pc a try and you'll retract that comment. It sucks SO BAD you'll realize it's not a real solution to anything.

• Third, you can add additional boxes and then stream to tv's, but that's not quite as simple as Sage's single interface setup.

Not really the same thing as you say. You can of course get a dual tuner DirecTV box and push one tuner to one room and another to a second room, but then you have the two fighting over remote control - DishTV does a better job at this (I know cause I just helped my Dad switch from Dish to DirecTV this summer.)
Again, adding extra boxes just gives you extra, standalone boxes with their own tuner/s and own hard drives. It works, but not as nice as a server/client relationship that you get with HTPCs. Although some Cablecos are moving this direction and will partially catch up eventually.

• It's true that you can't simply transcode to iPods, etc., but there is the HD-PVR option for that. Again, not as simple as Sage's non-DRM'd recordings.

Tell me more about this one - I'[m not familiar with the "HD-PVR" option for DirecTV that lets you get the content to the mobile device.

For things like DVD rips and online videos, Sage isn't required, but a computer at the tv is. Same for pictures and music (which Sage largely is useless for anyway, in my opinion).

I don't agree with your opinion on this, but thats probably just me. Photos and music ARE lacking on SageTV, but I still use em. Using SageTV as a Movies & Videos server is awesome though that depends on how you use it I guess.

Comskip is definitely lacking in the HD-DVR.

How? I use it every day and it works pretty well for us.


Bottom line, I'm not saying switching away from an HTPC is a bad thing for you - just know there are still the same advantages of the HTPC versus CableCo and SatelliteCo and for many (most?) of us it's still well worth it.

[jsonnabend]

Well, if the Directv2pc is that bad, it absolutely removes the HD-DVR from the running. It seems a lot of people are using it effectively, though.

As for the HD-PVR option, one can "re record" anything off of the HD-DVR using an HD-PVR, no? (or is there no analog hole on the device?)

DirecTV's product has no comskip -- I was conceding this point.

Thing is, I like SageTV, and I like tinkering, but the whole HD upgrade was painful, and on paper at least, the HD DVR has a lot going for it.

- Jeff

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Well, some of the comments are off the mark.

• First, the HD-DVR is expandable by simply plugging in an e-sata drive. (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global...etId=P5980155)

But can you record more than two things at once?

• Second, with a relatively cheap computer at other tv's, you can watch content from any DVR on your network (https://www.directv.com/directv2pc). Using something like OpenVPN, you can stream across the internet as well. The "problems" with the software seem to be related to HDCP compliant cards, which shouldn't be an issue any more.

Does it work with a remote? And what's "relatively", $200?

• Third, you can add additional boxes and then stream to tv's, but that's not quite as simple as Sage's single interface setup.

Can you schedule recordings from other TVs? Does conflict resolution work across multiple DVRs?

[QUOTE]

• It's true that you can't simply transcode to iPods, etc., but there is the HD-PVR option for that. Again, not as simple as Sage's non-DRM'd recordings.

For things like DVD rips and online videos, Sage isn't required, but a computer at the tv is. Same for pictures and music (which Sage largely is useless for anyway, in my opinion).

No it's not, I don't have a PC at any of my TVs, and I can watch DVDs, Blu-rays, online video and everything else.

I don't know. Plug and play HD recordings is appealing. I'm paid-up with SageTV for this release, but come the next pay upgrade, I'm going to seriously consider moving away.

Hey, if you don't care about true whole-house DVR feature, recording more than two shows at once, go for it.

Most of us are here because we want more than even this DVR offers.

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

I don't consider the DVR expandable because the external drive REPLACES the internal drive. Also, the recordings on the internal drive are not available after setting up the external drive.

Wow, I missed that point. What a strange design decision, huh?

- Jeff

[Brent]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Wow, I missed that point. What a strange design decision, huh?

- Jeff

I don't honestly understand it either - I imagine it could be corrected with a future firmware update though.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Thing is, I like SageTV, and I like tinkering, but the whole HD upgrade was painful,

You say "was", that implies it's working now. If so, (while it would be nice if it was plug and play) how much does it really matter if the initial setup was hard, isn't it the usage that matters?

...and on paper at least, the HD DVR has a lot going for it

On paper it's marginally better than other DVRs, but not much. If Dish adds streaming from other DVRs on your network (which supposedly is in the works) it will be a better solution than this, but unless they syncronize the recording schedules across DVRs and have multi-DVR scheduling and conflict resolution logic, it will still pale in comparison to SageTV.

[HelenWeathers]

Here's a link to the DirecTV2PC discussion on DBSTalk:
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=163985

And there is still DRM for recordings and codec issues on playback to deal with on the PC.

[LittleJohnny]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Wow, I missed that point. What a strange design decision, huh?

- Jeff

Plus, you lose your list of scheduled program. And the HD-PVR is limited to 50 programs. (Yes, 50 seems like quite a few, but my wife complains about not being able to schedule more programs.)

Currently, I have both - SageTV with 4 HD200s along with 3 DirecTV DVRs. While there are some nice things about the DVRs, I much prefer the Sage setup. Granted some of these items may be of little or no benefit to you, but here's why I prefer Sage:

* Access to my DVDs ... currently have over 700 ripped
* I can add HD200s without incurring additional monthly fees
* I can customize the user interface per location. I can have a very simple interface in the Guest bedroom, a weather and local news in the master bathroom, plus the "complete" package in my home theater room.
* Shared recordings across TVs is a great feature
* Ability to transfer recordings to iPhones/iPods for travel
* Ability to watch my favorite video podcasts and listen to Internet radio stations at the TVs (Squeezebox plug-in)


I agree that I have spent some time getting some of these items working, but at least I have the ability to do it. The DirecTV is a closed system. Also, if you plan to take advantage of some of the features related to the DirecTV DVR - software on the PC, hard drive expansion, listening to music/viewing pictures - be prepared to spend quite a few hours.

[jsonnabend]

The "shared recordings across tv's" is the main reason I started down the SageTV road and any system that doesn't give me at least reasonable MRV functionality is doa.

I like the "simplified UI for guests" idea.

- Jeff

[FreshOne]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Well, if the Directv2pc is that bad, it absolutely removes the HD-DVR from the running. It seems a lot of people are using it effectively, though.

When I last tried DirecTV2PC, my biggest beef was that it would not work if you had 2 monitors. In my bedroom, I have a 24" monitor and a 37" HDTV hooked up to my computer.

If I want to watch TV on the TV, I have to disable the 24" monitor (which rearranges all my desktop icons) and make the 37" TV the primary monitor. Then I can actually watch TV. Then I have to switch it all back when I am done. And then get my icons all arranged properly again. Plus I have to use the mouse to skip the commercials and not the remote.

For me, the HD200 is light-years ahead of DirecTV2PC for my TV viewing in this configuration.

EDIT - The release notes for the download link in this thread appear to say that dual monitor is now working. I will give the new version a try

[jsonnabend]

@FreshOne: when you do, can you report back with your findings?

Also, I imagine that the remote vs. mouse issue can be overcome with a USB-UIRT and EventGhost.