HDPVR, USB UIRT Sadness

[Diego Garcia]

First off, I appreciate all the effort Sage has put into their software.

But right now I am a very unhappy camper. I am trying to integrate an HDPVR into my setup because Comcast has recently started encrypting all their previously unencrypted digital channels in my area.

Unfortunately, adding the HDPVR is turning out to be a monumental pain. I think I am running into several unrelated problems, but the net effect is that I currently own a $200 boat anchor that I thought was going to let me use Sage the way I used to.

Here's what I've tried and what I've run into:

1) I run Sage as a service under Win7. I cannot get Sage to recognize the IR emitter in my USBUIRT. It comes back with a "failed to identify emitter" error. From reading the forum, this is a bug in either Sage, the USBUIRT driver, or both. Apparently there's a security issue with accessing a driver cross process or something.

2) I tried to use the emitter/blaster that comes with the HDPVR. It lights up when it's trying to change channels on the STB, but no channel change occurs. I don't know if this is because the STB isn't recognizing the control codes. I don't recall seeing an option to select which kind of STB I have. From looking the STB over I'm not even sure who the actual manufacturer is. It's just got Comcast's logo plastered all over it.

3) I tried not running Sage as a service. In this mode the USBUIRT's emitter was recognized, but whenever the wizard tries to learn the codes for each digit the process locks up and I get an error message about releasing the select/enter key on the remote keypad...which I am not pressing. If I back the wizard up a step, and then step forward, I get the message to hold down the 0 key until told to stop. However, the same problem (timeout/lockup/error message) occurs. FWIW, the LED in the USBUIRT does not flash while I'm first holding down the 0 key. It begins flashing, however, as soon as the error message appears. Which is weird.

I know that another Sage user has made available some software (LM Remote Keymap) that is aimed at solving the cross-process problem. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be particularly straightforward to set up. Besides, my Murphy's Law bump starts to itch terribly when I pile workaround on top of workaround to get something critical -- like being able to control the STB -- to work.

Can anyone offer any advice and/or solutions for these problems? It's extremely frustrating to be blocked at virtually every turn trying to get this #~!$!#$^!#$#@& thing to work!!!!

Right now I am about ready to give up on Sage and rent a Comcast DVR, or buy a couple of Tivos.

--- Update 1 ---

I remembered that I hadn't done anything to configure the HDPVR's IR blaster. I assumed Sage would take care of that...but maybe it doesn't. In any event, I used the blaster configuration utility that comes with the HDPVR and found that it was set to satellite. I switched it to cable, told it to talk to a Comcast box, and found that if I placed the emitter right on top of the cable box I could get the config utility to change channels.

I then went back into Sage and was able to configure the HDPVR as a video source using its built-in blaster. I think I was able to change channels within Sage. However -- I forgot to mention this earlier -- I wasn't getting any audio from the HDPVR within Sage. I checked the cables, which were properly seated. So I cycled the power on the HDPVR (while Sage was setting it up as a video source). This solved the audio problem, but Sage wasn't able to change channels (and the HDPVR emitter never flickered when Sage tried to change channels -- that's a nice touch, visual confirmation that something should be happening).

Right now I'm rebooting the system to see if that solves the "Sage can't change channels" problem.

--- Update 2 ---

I rebooted the system, and cycled the power on the HDPVR for good measure after Windows had shut down.

That seems to have fixed the sound problem. Sage can now tune the channels on the HDPVR's associated STB, and I have audio. Hurray!

[Fuzzy]

The service should be able to use teh USB-UIRT for blasting, but not if it's already in use by something else (like the client for control, etc). If you've only got one STB to control, the Hauppague blaster should work just fine, leaving the USB-UIRT to continue control duties. There's a howto floating around here about setting it up. I think you have to choose the box in some hauppague software, but you should consult the howto to confirm that.

[Diego Garcia]

What do you mean "the client for control"? I use the USBUIRT as the "receiver" to control the Sage client. If the Sage client and the Sage service can't figure out how to share the same device in both transmit and receive mode...well, that's seems pretty darn lame to me .

[ThePaladinTech]

I am using a HDPVR and a USB-UIRT no problem...

I do not have the hauppauge ir blaster or it's software installed at all - and from what I have read it leaves something to be desired (which is why I got the USB-UIRT)

I have a question and one thought:

Are you running sage as service logged in as a specific user or as "local system" - I am running it as a specific user.

I am using windows XP and it doesn't have that PIA User Access Control - perhaps you could disable that and your problem will go away? in windows 7 they made it easier to disable .. type UAC in the search box and slide the slider all the way to the bottom (effectively turning off UAC)

I Hope those two things make it work for you!

[Diego Garcia]

A reasonable suggestion about turning off Win7 security, but I'm loathe to do that because, well, I don't like having unsecure systems connected to the internet .

I don't believe I have Sage service to run as a particular user, so it's probably just using local system. Have you ever run it as Local System and run into problems with the USBUIRT emitter?

[ThePaladinTech]

Originally Posted by Diego Garcia

What do you mean "the client for control"? I use the USBUIRT as the "receiver" to control the Sage client. If the Sage client and the Sage service can't figure out how to share the same device in both transmit and receive mode...well, that's seems pretty darn lame to me .

just saw this! in my setup I am using a MCE remote usb dongle to receive and the USB UIRT to transmit. I am not sure if that is required as the MCE remote was part of my setup from the begining and I just added the UIRT when I got the HD-PVR (and couldn't get the hauppuge blaster to work reliably). Due to the economy I am not living where my sage server is or I would test that out for you!

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Diego Garcia

A reasonable suggestion about turning off Win7 security, but I'm loathe to do that because, well, I don't like having unsecure systems connected to the internet .

You're right, leave UAC on (turning it off will not solve the problem anyway)

I don't believe I have Sage service to run as a particular user, so it's probably just using local system. Have you ever run it as Local System and run into problems with the USBUIRT emitter?

In Vista/7 the USB-UIRT cannot be used at the same time by the SageTV Service and the SageTV client whatever user the service is running.

I know that another Sage user has made available some software (LM Remote Keymap) that is aimed at solving the cross-process problem. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be particularly straightforward to set up

You must be kidding, I try to explain every steps to make the channel change plug-in work.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Diego Garcia]

Sorry, no offense was intended. I'd read through some of the documentation on your site, but not the "guide for dummies" that you linked to in your post. That's much more understandable (to me) than what I'd been reading.

At this point I'm going to use the HDPVR IR blaster and see if it works reliably (I've read reports on how it doesn't always).

BTW, my sense from browsing the forum is that using two HDPVRs pretty much means you can't use the HDPVR IR blasters. Is that correct? I ask because I'm probably going to get a second HDPVR and, if such a setup can't use the bundled blasters, I'm going to have to find a different solution. Which means I might as well try and get your software configured on my system anyway...

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Diego Garcia

BTW, my sense from browsing the forum is that using two HDPVRs pretty much means you can't use the HDPVR IR blasters. Is that correct?

Usually with Hauppauge blasters: only one of them will work; this was the case with the PVR-150 for instance and other USB PVR. So I guess this is also the case with the HDPVR.

[Fuzzy]

Correct, you can only use one instance of the Hauppague blaster (it's a hauppague driver limitation). You could, if you get the USB-UIRT config sorted, use it to control up to 3 boxes, using it's zoning feature. The miniplug on the back of the USB-UIRT is for two other IR emitters, which can be controlled separately. You'd have to make sure that each emitter was reaching only the desired box, by blocking it from the others, but once set up, it works great.

Another options, i believe, is to actuall yuse two separate USB-UIRT's. i think one could be used for control, and another used for blasting (may make more sense anyways, since you can then move the server/stbs to another location), without the conflict.

[davephan]

When I first started with SageTV with a single PVR-350 and a USB-UIRT. I aimed the USB-UIRT so that it was aimed at both the set top box and the area of the room where the remote control was used. It really is a flaky way to use SageTV. It is much better to go with a 'headless' setup, using the USB-UIRT only for IR blasting from the computer to the set top box. A HD-200 is used with the with the remote control.

Part of your struggling is because you are using Windows 7. Windows XP is much easier to setup, although many people are running successfully with Windows 7.

Dave

[Fuzzy]

I think the dual-purpose USB-UIRT is really the only complication with using win7 for sage at this point. UAC is sort of an issue, but is easily avoided by instaling to C:\SageTV instead of the default location. I do think win7's improved rendering pipeline is far superior to xp's, and as such, is worth the minor added complications.

[Diego Garcia]

You may be right, but not being able to use the emitter function in the USBUIRT is a pretty big deal if you have more than one HDPVR. Or at least that's what I'm taking away from my research.

Has anyone heard from Sage as to whether or not a fix is possible and in the pipeline? Or is it a limitation of the USBUIRT driver?

[Fuzzy]

you CAN use the emitter portion of the USB-UIRT just fine.. what you CAN'T do is use BOTH the emitter AND the reciever portions of the SAME USB-UIRT. And, it IS a limitation of the USB-UIRT driver. it can only be accessed by one 'session' at a time. If you are running sage as a service, even if it's logging in as the same USER, it is still a different session (this is a newer security measure in win7). there was an option to force it into the console session prior to win7 (Allow Service to Interact with Desktop), but that is no longer available.

[Diego Garcia]

Okay, I get it.

Are there issues with running multiple USB UIRTs on the same machine? How does Sage tell them apart to know that one is for receiving and the other is for transmitting?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Diego Garcia

Are there issues with running multiple USB UIRTs on the same machine? How does Sage tell them apart to know that one is for receiving and the other is for transmitting?

You'll have the same issues (you can have two USB-UIRT, but only one "driver" will be used)

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

UAC is sort of an issue, but is easily avoided by instaling to C:\SageTV instead of the default location.

Or simply give authenticated users full control access on the C:\Program Files\SageTV folder, this is all what it is needed for SageTV to write the config files in the C:\Program Files\SageTV directory (and therefore prevent settings to be virtualized into the user directory)

[Diego Garcia]

Stephane and Fuzzy, there appears to be a difference of opinion on using multiple USBUIRTs on the same Win7 machine. Comments?

[Naylia]

Have you considered using firewire to change channels instead? Figure out what STB you have - check the bottom, it might be the RNG110 in which case you won't get IR working anyways....

[Diego Garcia]

I was able to get the IR setup working. The STB has a firewire port, but I've read that getting that to work can be even harder.