Sage7 vs SageMC UI comparison

[Ericft]

i have installed sagemc but how do i activate it...it is not in the list of options under detailed/advanced set full UI profile...any thoughts?

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by Ericft

i have installed sagemc but how do i activate it...it is not in the list of options under detailed/advanced set full UI profile...any thoughts?

It is an STV type plugin. For this type, you have to load the replacement UI manually in the Detailed Settings >> Advanced menu. You need to replace the existing SageTV Application Package (default is SageTV7.xml). I left SageMC in the old SageTV3 directory to retain compatibility with legacy plugins. To find it, you will have to navigate up one level to the STVs directory and then navigate into the SageTV3 directory. Select SageMC_169.xml and accept.

Aloha,
Mike

P.S. For anyone who hasn't noticed, I added SageMC as a V7 plugin to the repository last night. Thanks stuckless for all your help on this!

[phelme]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

It is an STV type plugin. For this type, you have to load the replacement UI manually in the Detailed Settings >> Advanced menu. You need to replace the existing SageTV Application Package (default is SageTV7.xml). I left SageMC in the old SageTV3 directory to retain compatibility with legacy plugins. To find it, you will have to navigate up one level to the STVs directory and then navigate into the SageTV3 directory. Select SageMC_169.xml and accept.

Ah, that's where it is. I installed this today and had no idea it would still be in the old directory. Thanks!

[wayner]

Great writeup Mickp. I also have become very used to SageMC and although there are lots of improvements in Sage7 the UI is still decidedly inferior to SageMC, at least IMHO.

[eric3a]

Excellent document.
I haven't upgraded to SageTV 7 yet, but from the pics and explanations, I'll still want to stick to SageMC's excellent user interface even after the upgrade.

Eric

[blade]

Originally Posted by eric3a

I haven't upgraded to SageTV 7 yet, but from the pics and explanations, I'll still want to stick to SageMC's excellent user interface even after the upgrade.

I wish all of the SageMC users who switch to v7 would run the stock UI at least through the beta period. Now is a great time to get certain UI behaviors or features added to the stock UI. I noticed several behavior issues people suggest be changed were changed in the second beta release. The more someone uses the stock UI the more suggestions and requests they'll come up with. mickp seems to have done a good job of documenting things, but honestly it appears some SageMC users don't use the stock UI long enough to even know what features it has and doesn't have because they don't know where to look for them. That's obvious by the numerous posts requesting features from SageMC that are already present in the stock UI or available via plug-in.

This post isn't directed solely at eric3a, but to all the SageMC users. I hope all of you use the stock UI and voice your opinions and requests by submitting feature requests.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by blade

I noticed several behavior issues people suggest be changed were changed in the second beta release.

What...huh? Second v7 beta release? If so, where can I find it?

And FYI, I was an avid SageMC user for years and had to pull away from it when I switched to HDPVR's and had too many problems with the "pause" that worsened in SageMC. I've been using the v7 Sage UI now since it came out and want to try the v7 SageMC STV to compare.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by sportera

What...huh? Second v7 beta release? If so, where can I find it?

http://forums.freytechnologies.com/f...0&postcount=98

Originally Posted by blade

I wish all of the SageMC users who switch to v7 would run the stock UI at least through the beta period. Now is a great time to get certain UI behaviors or features added to the stock UI. I noticed several behavior issues people suggest be changed were changed in the second beta release. The more someone uses the stock UI the more suggestions and requests they'll come up with. mickp seems to have done a good job of documenting things, but honestly it appears some SageMC users don't use the stock UI long enough to even know what features it has and doesn't have because they don't know where to look for them. That's obvious by the numerous posts requesting features from SageMC that are already present in the stock UI or available via plug-in.

I have to echo blade's sentiments here. If you don't run the stock STV7, you're not helping SageTV test the UI they're releasing. And they won't know the things that you really miss having from whatever UI you were running before.

And I really miss dynamic menus, but am living without for now.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

If you don't run the stock STV7, you're not helping SageTV test the UI they're releasing. And they won't know the things that you really miss having from whatever UI you were running before.

I agree. I was a SageMC user, and although some of v7 UI annoys me, I want to encourage the positive changes to the default UI we're now seeing. Switching to SageMC during the beta will not help.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by brainbone

I agree. I was a SageMC user, and although some of v7 UI annoys me, I want to encourage the positive changes to the default UI we're now seeing. Switching to SageMC during the beta will not help.

Theoretically I agree with that statement. However if you have a family that is using Sage and they are used to SageMC then you will have issues. That means (1) have a non-production system to try out Sage 7 without ticking off the rest of the family, or (2) tell everyone else that they have to learn the new UI - but then you are pretty much committing to using the default UI unless you are prepraed to switch back to SageMC when the beta is over.

IMHO SageMC is still a far superior UI to Sage, even with Sage7 and I still really don't like the way the default UI does certain things - this was shown very nicely in the document.

[bialio]

There is _some_ merit in running SageMC during the beta - support for third party UI is part of what Sage supports, so that part of the code needs to be put through it's paces as well.

That being said, I don't miss anything from SageMC after using the default STV for the last few months. There are some things I would change, and have changed, but more or less for our usage it works quite nicely.

btl.

[iolaus]

Fantastic post, thank you for taking the time to document all of your research.

On the issue of the difficult to find "Now Playing" list, I think it would be great if it were available universally throughout SageTV with a consistent way of adding music, recordings, and videos (and maybe even photos, why not?) to the list. It seems like it shouldn't be difficult queue up a song, then a music video, then another song. Or if I'd like queue up The Godfather 1, followed by The Godfather 2, followed by The Godfather soundtrack.

In SageTV 6 (I'm not sure about 7) playlists were treated very strangely and inconsistently between different media types. I haven't heard if anything has been changed in SageTV 7 but I'm not terribly hopeful after reading your document.

[bialio]

If you find yourself missing the MyTV screen on SageMC in V7, I've got a plugin coming that you will like:



Look for this in the Plugin Repository later today, 6/14/2010.

btl.

[fresnoboy]

Originally Posted by bialio

If you find yourself missing the MyTV screen on SageMC in V7, I've got a plugin coming that you will like:



Look for this in the Plugin Repository later today, 6/14/2010.

btl.

Very nice, though it would be great if it could be on the main TV page instead of one extra click away.

Removing clicks for common functions is pretty important if the main UI will displace SageMC.

[peternm22]

Originally Posted by bialio

If you find yourself missing the MyTV screen on SageMC in V7, I've got a plugin coming that you will like:

Looking good, this is one of the things I missed most about SageMC. Is it just setup as sub menu on the main screen? It would be nice to have it as a dedicated "screen" that we could map to a button on our remotes (this is how I did it with SageMC).

[mickp]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

It is an STV type plugin. For this type, you have to load the replacement UI manually in the Detailed Settings >> Advanced menu. You need to replace the existing SageTV Application Package (default is SageTV7.xml). I left SageMC in the old SageTV3 directory to retain compatibility with legacy plugins. To find it, you will have to navigate up one level to the STVs directory and then navigate into the SageTV3 directory. Select SageMC_169.xml and accept.

Aloha,
Mike

P.S. For anyone who hasn't noticed, I added SageMC as a V7 plugin to the repository last night. Thanks stuckless for all your help on this!

Hey Mike,

Congrats on being the first to get an STV plugin on the list. Install was completely smooth for me btw though I was suprised that I still had to go and configure the STV. Reading your comments above I'm not sure if this is the expected behavior. Is the install of SageMC via the plugin manager meant to change the current STV to SageMC? This didn't happen for me on either my client or server. If this isn't the way that it's meant to be LMK if there's anything that I can do to help with diagnosing the problem.

Thanks also for your recent work resolving the S7 related issues.

Mick.

[mickp]

Originally Posted by wayner

Great writeup Mickp. I also have become very used to SageMC and although there are lots of improvements in Sage7 the UI is still decidedly inferior to SageMC, at least IMHO.

Hey wayner,

Thanks. I tend to agree re: the current superiority of the SageMC interface though every day there seems to be another plugin that closes the gap somewhat. I'm hoping to have some time very soon to do an update on the comparison doc highlighting each of these where they apply to wants that I've expressed. A salient example would be the JREkiwi MiniGuide for V7.

I must admit to having reverted to SageMC in the lounge (Aussie for whatever you call the room with the TV and Sofa ) but am mostly using S7 native via the client on my PC.

Originally Posted by eric3a

Excellent document.
I haven't upgraded to SageTV 7 yet, but from the pics and explanations, I'll still want to stick to SageMC's excellent user interface even after the upgrade.

Eric

Thanks Eric. You're very kind.

Sage7 is still in beta and I'm hopeful that the folks at Sage will be able to address the issues that we raise during the beta so that we will all be happy to switch. I'm of course actually pinning my hopes on Phoenix and Ortus being phenomenally good though the better the stock S7 interface is the better it will be for all of us.

Originally Posted by blade

I wish all of the SageMC users who switch to v7 would run the stock UI at least through the beta period. Now is a great time to get certain UI behaviors or features added to the stock UI. I noticed several behavior issues people suggest be changed were changed in the second beta release.[...]

Fair call though I don't know that I've seen a huge epidemic of Sage7 deniers out there.

You can't offer valid feedback unless you've used it and now is the time to check it out, work out what it is that you think must be improved and have your say.

SageMC is working quite well on S7 now after the recent patches provided by Mike (thanks Mike) so it's fairly safe to upgrade your systems to Sage7. Once you've upgraded you can put SageMC straight back onto your main system(s) for WAF while you get to muck about with a client or placeshifter install running the Sage7 native GUI on your own pc.

Originally Posted by wayner

Theoretically I agree with that statement. However if you have a family that is using Sage and they are used to SageMC then you will have issues. That means (1) have a non-production system to try out Sage 7 without ticking off the rest of the family, or (2) tell everyone else that they have to learn the new UI - but then you are pretty much committing to using the default UI unless you are prepraed to switch back to SageMC when the beta is over.

IMHO SageMC is still a far superior UI to Sage, even with Sage7 and I still really don't like the way the default UI does certain things - this was shown very nicely in the document.

I agree. WAF/dignity is hard won and easily lost. As I mentioned above, SageMC is running pretty well for me on Sage7 now (YMMV). I'd definitely suggest running the Sage7 UI on your PC via Client or Placeshifter first (in secret, away from the family) if you have the opportunity.

Originally Posted by bialio

There is _some_ merit in running SageMC during the beta - support for third party UI is part of what Sage supports, so that part of the code needs to be put through it's paces as well.

That being said, I don't miss anything from SageMC after using the default STV for the last few months. There are some things I would change, and have changed, but more or less for our usage it works quite nicely.

btl.

Absolutely. There's definitely a need for people to check out this side of Sage7. I'm very happy that Sage have made it easy to import STVs and expect that as soon as Ortus and Phoenix (+others hopefully) arrive that many users will be switching UI. It's good to know that it works.

Thanks for the preview of the TV Overview. This will fill yet another gap for us skittish SageMC devotees. Can't wait to check it out.

Mick.

[mickp]

Originally Posted by iolaus

Fantastic post, thank you for taking the time to document all of your research.

On the issue of the difficult to find "Now Playing" list, I think it would be great if it were available universally throughout SageTV with a consistent way of adding music, recordings, and videos (and maybe even photos, why not?) to the list. It seems like it shouldn't be difficult queue up a song, then a music video, then another song. Or if I'd like queue up The Godfather 1, followed by The Godfather 2, followed by The Godfather soundtrack.

In SageTV 6 (I'm not sure about 7) playlists were treated very strangely and inconsistently between different media types. I haven't heard if anything has been changed in SageTV 7 but I'm not terribly hopeful after reading your document.

Hi iolaus,

Thanks and you're welcome.

I think that's a great idea. I can't see any reason not to combine all media into a common playlist/queue. I'm not much on playlists generally, as you might be able to see from the screenshots though I do like to know what is going on with the current music queue.

The music section in S7 is the thing that I find most in need of attention at the moment. I wouldn't use an mp3 player (lossless audio player realy) that behaved like this and I doubt many would (though apple shuffle thingers may prove me wrong). I use SageMC's music interface many times a week and find it quite a good fit for the way that I access my music, though I'm sure that there are refinements that could be made.

IMHO music playback should be considered as ~30% of the value of owning an HTPC system such as Sage. I don't reckon it's had it's fair share of dev love yet.

Mick.

[brb84]

I'd have to agree my biggest problem right is the lack of a Recent/Upcoming recordings section in the MyTV area. That has become pretty much a necessity for me being able to instantly make sure everything is working well and letting me quickly watch something that came on recently without having to navigate through the full list of shows.

Other than that, I'm incredibly excited to finally be able to see V7 taking shape. Great work, guys!

[darcilicious]

Just to throw my $0.02 at this point... I used SageMC exclusively in v6 for about ten months. I've been using the default UI exclusively since v7 came out. Just for the heck of it today, I installed SageMC on my PC client and realized something -- I really really like the v7 default UI a lot -- especially with the plugins available and everybody's great contributions and tips.

Which isn't to say that there isn't room for improvement or that I disagree with any one suggestion made about v7. Just that the v7 default UI is heads and shoulders above the default v6 UI and a worthy replacement of SageMC, in my opinion.