I made the leap...to an i3 system

[panteragstk]

Well, I finally bit the bullet and ordered the parts for my i3 system. The parts list is in the attached picture.

As soon as I can get my HDMI receiver for HD audio I'll be set.

I'll update this thread with my progress and testing. I'm hoping for this thing to fly. I'm not sure the intel graphics will make me happy picture quality wise, but that is why I have an ati 5670 on my list (n64 emulator will like that card better anyway).

My goal is to have a client pc capable of bitstreaming all of the audio no matter what codec, and be able to deinterlace all video properly with hardware decoding of vc-1, h.264, and mpeg2 for dvd's. I've got that now with my current ati 3450, but the deinterlacing leaves a lot to be desired.

I'll let you guys know how the build goes in about 3 days (according to ups, which means 5 days).

Any tips from someone that has already built this type of system are welcome.

[babgvant]

Deinterlacing and picture quality are excellent with the i3. To get the best experience enable FSE mode in Sage, you won't need the 5670.

[panteragstk]

Interesting. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I'd really like to have as few crappy drivers on my client as possible, so not having a bloated ati driver package sounds great to me.

[autoboy]

I would think all you need is the 5650 to get what you want. Bitstreaming and good deinterlacing are done in the graphics, not the CPU.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by autoboy

I would think all you need is the 5650 to get what you want. Bitstreaming and good deinterlacing are done in the graphics, not the CPU.

The i3 includes a GPU in the CPU package. The DI performance is just as good or better in the testing I did against a 5770.

[kingwr]

The one think you won't get in the i3 (and the reason I am staying away) is 120Hz video for those 3-D Blu-rays on your 3-D capable television. Have to go Nvidia GeForce for that.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by kingwr

The one think you won't get in the i3 (and the reason I am staying away) is 120Hz video for those 3-D Blu-rays on your 3-D capable television. Have to go Nvidia GeForce for that.

Only some 3D displays work w/ nvidia gpus currently.

[kingwr]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Only some 3D displays work w/ nvidia gpus currently.

I'm not talking about Nvidia's 3-D system, but native 3-D capable LCD TVs.

Most 3-D capable LCD TVs use an active shutter system. The only thing the GPU needs to be able to do is to decode and deliver 120Hz content to the display. 3-D Blu-rays are 120Hz content. So, with compatible player software such as TMT3, the 3-D Blu-ray content is decoded and delivered to the LCD TV at 120Hz, and the TV handles the presentation of the 3-D content to the viewer.

Currently, some newer ATI and Nvidia chips support 120Hz displays, and Nvidia's GeForce line seems to fully support it (may require a driver upgrade in some circumstances).

Note this is all theory from extensive online research. I don't yet have enough money to build my new HTPC to connect to my 3-D Samsung. But I have moved on from the i3 chip because of this issue.

[kingwr]

Also, on the SSD, from what I have read, the best performance boost doesn't come from using the SSD for recording or buffering (sequential writes), but from putting the operating system on the SSD (the constant random reads that Widnows does). So you may want to boost your SSD to 40GB or 60GB. I am planning to put the entire OS on the SSD and keep an image copy in one partition of the drive array, updating it periodically.

BTW, my current OS installation (Windows, Program Files, ProgramData, Users (documents on different drive), swap file, etc.) takes 35GB. I am sure that can be reduced on a clean HTPC installation, but 30GB may not do it.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by kingwr

I'm not talking about Nvidia's 3-D system, but native 3-D capable LCD TVs.

Most 3-D capable LCD TVs use an active shutter system. The only thing the GPU needs to be able to do is to decode and deliver 120Hz content to the display. 3-D Blu-rays are 120Hz content. So, with compatible player software such as TMT3, the 3-D Blu-ray content is decoded and delivered to the LCD TV at 120Hz, and the TV handles the presentation of the 3-D content to the viewer.

If you look at the supported displays, you won't find any LCD or Plasma TVs.

I asked a contact at Arcsoft about it and they confirmed that a special, not currently released, driver is required for these types of displays. All of the GPU vendors are working on 3D, no one has all the pieces in place yet. Both ATI and Intel have demoed 3D content playback, but AFAIK neither was on a 120Hz sequential display so Nvidia does have a greater chance of bringing something to market sooner (since we know a special driver exists).

[panteragstk]

Sorry for taking so long to update. I've been busy.

So far so good. I like the integrated graphics and windows 7 codecs, except vc-1 will not play nice (granted sage 7 won't play nice with vc-1 on either of my systems). That and dvd's decided they don't want to play anymore.

Things I've noticed. The built in intel graphics are pretty good at decoding video. Picture quality is very nice. I haven't spent any time attempting to calibrate the output, but so far I'm liking the picture quality. I don't like that the mpc-hc codecs don't like the graphics processor, but that is another issue. Also, when switching inputs or turning off the TV, the video display with sagetv as the front window it won't display full screen. It is almost like sagetv is in windowed mode, but it isn't. Only restarting sage fixes this. I'm guessing driver issue, but haven't found out yet. I'm going to put my low quality ati 3450 in it and see what happens.

As far as using the built in graphics for 3d, I personaly couldn't care less about 3d.

As for the SSD. Love it. Best decision I have made in a while. Sage opens very fast and there is no lag navigating through menu's. Only a 30gb drive and I still have 9gb left and no other apps to install. Nice.

It's pretty cool that all I have in the case is the psu, motherboard, cpu, memory and the ssd. That is as basic a client as I could get.

I highly reccommend my setup for anyone thinking about and i3 or ssd system in general. I'll update as my progress allows.

[panteragstk]

Update.

Windows 7 64bit, vc-1 and intel hd graphics don't get along very well. I put my old ati 3450 in and vc-1 plays wonderfully...outside of sagetv. I don't know why sage has such issues with vc-1.

All in all the processor is way overkill for an htpc.

Video quality is great, but the ati works better with mpc-hc codecs and dxva.

Intel dxva works well in TMT, but not sage.

The SSD make the biggest diference. The images load quicker and the htpc just seems quicker. It is the low access time (.03ms) that does it. I've never used a computer that loads this quickly.

So for the ultimate htpc, I can't help but reccomend the i3 platform. I will say that the motherboard I picked could have better bios options.

My next project is to add a quad core to the server so it doesn't overload the cpu like it has been.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Windows 7 64bit, vc-1 and intel hd graphics don't get along very well. I put my old ati 3450 in and vc-1 plays wonderfully...outside of sagetv. I don't know why sage has such issues with vc-1.

Currently the only way to get HWA with Intel for VC-1 is to use the TMT video decoder. MPC-HC has focused most of its effort on ATI HW (for good reason), so there isn't currently a great way to get VC-1 working with DXVA2 if you don't have the filters from TMT2 installed - I use the set that came with my HD PVR.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Currently the only way to get HWA with Intel for VC-1 is to use the TMT video decoder. MPC-HC has focused most of its effort on ATI HW (for good reason), so there isn't currently a great way to get VC-1 working with DXVA2 if you don't have the filters from TMT2 installed - I use the set that came with my HD PVR.

Tried that. TMT filter won't cooperate with vc-1 at all. h.264 no problem. Odd. I put my ati card in and solved the dxva problem, but I still can't get sage to cooperate.

Other than that I think I've found a great htpc platform. I love how fast this system is.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Tried that. TMT filter won't cooperate with vc-1 at all. h.264 no problem. Odd. I put my ati card in and solved the dxva problem, but I still can't get sage to cooperate.

Other than that I think I've found a great htpc platform. I love how fast this system is.

Is it the version of TMT that came with the HD PVR?

[kingwr]

Back on the 3-D thing, Nvidia's 3DTV Play supposedly upgrades GeForce cards to HDMI 1.4, and thus supports 3D TVs (1080p48 and 720p60 in 3-D).

Personally i don't know how much I like my 3-D TV with active shutter glasses. Perhaps I should have waited for polarized displays. Could 3-D bring forth a rebirth of DLP?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Is it the version of TMT that came with the HD PVR?

Nope. It is tmt3. I will try v2 and see if that works.

Originally Posted by kingwr

Back on the 3-D thing, Nvidia's 3DTV Play supposedly upgrades GeForce cards to HDMI 1.4, and thus supports 3D TVs (1080p48 and 720p60 in 3-D).

Personally i don't know how much I like my 3-D TV with active shutter glasses. Perhaps I should have waited for polarized displays. Could 3-D bring forth a rebirth of DLP?

I'm actually going to purchase a 82" DLP next month. It is 3D capable, but I'm in no hurry. I might test it with pc games just to see, but I can't see myself using it for 3d tv or 3d blu-ray.

I honestly think 3d will go the way of hd-dvd. Maybe, maybe not...

[Fuzzy]

I, personally, LOVE my 3D DLP (Samsung HL-T6189S). The only advantage the panels have over it in the 3D arena is that each eye is FULL 1920x1080, where the DLP is 'sort of' half that, however, the fadein/out of LCD causes crosstalk between eyes that you simply don't get on a DLP screen, leading to a lot more eye/head strain. I've never noticed the checkerboarding except on the computer display, where sometimes text is 'strange' having every other pixel on every other eye.. but that's not the normal view anyways.

3D PC games are where home 3D REALLY shines though. I loved playing Madden in 3D, though unfortunatly, since EA decided PC's aren't worth their games, that's not an option anymore. Eve online is simply beautiful in 3D, but it really doesn't add much but pretty to that game. I'd imagine shooters would be awesome, but haven't played one in a long time. A new Mechwarrior game is on the horizon, and simulators like that are the PERFECT use of 3D.

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Also, when switching inputs or turning off the TV, the video display with sagetv as the front window it won't display full screen. It is almost like sagetv is in windowed mode, but it isn't. Only restarting sage fixes this.

This sounds kind of like what is happening to me; Windows resizes the display down to 1024x768(ish) when it loses connection to your TV then resizes again to your normal resolution when the TV is rediscovered. Sage catches the change in resolution down, but unfortunately does not respond to the change back up. When this happens if I change sage from full screen -> windowed -> full screen the display is normal again. I submitted a bug report for 7.0.11 and the devs were able to reproduce it and said it should be fixed in the next build If the same thing is happening to you doing the fs->windowed->fs dance should fix the picture until the TV is turned off or input switched again. Mapping a remote button to the full screen command makes it bearable

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

This sounds kind of like what is happening to me; Windows resizes the display down to 1024x768(ish) when it loses connection to your TV then resizes again to your normal resolution when the TV is rediscovered. Sage catches the change in resolution down, but unfortunately does not respond to the change back up. When this happens if I change sage from full screen -> windowed -> full screen the display is normal again. I submitted a bug report for 7.0.11 and the devs were able to reproduce it and said it should be fixed in the next build If the same thing is happening to you doing the fs->windowed->fs dance should fix the picture until the TV is turned off or input switched again. Mapping a remote button to the full screen command makes it bearable

I'd like to note that this doesn't happen with my ati video card, just the intel built in graphics.