Linux Caveats

[bagseed]

I see threads here with bits and pieces of this or that does not work as compared to a windows version of sagetv. It would be nice if there was a sticky created by a sagetv moderator and updated with current information of what can be expected on a linux install to work, not work, never will work and or requires extra tweaking. A example would be comskip...it apparently works with extra tweaking using emulation, another example would be streaming netflix...apparently does not work period. It would be nice to look at a chart and see the differences between the builds. Since there is no trial for a linux install we need this so one can make logical educated decisions so money is not wasted and the user understands what to expect. I prefer linux for a multitude of reasons but if I have to give up a lot of functionality and or spend countless hours hacking together a paid product ...then what's the point? It would be nice if sage offered repositories ..say for gentoo / ubuntu. If the latter was implemented you could simply "apt-get install sagetv" or "emerge sagetv" and have the installer automatically install sagetv and any other dependencies such as for ex. installing and configuring wine for comskip. If I am setting up a server only " apt-get install sagetv-server" that way I don't get a bloated install with a desktop and crap that will never get used.

Anyway, I am interested in installing sagetv version 7, when it comes out, on ubuntu or gentoo as a server only. I wanted to connect the sagetv server to OTA via the HDHR and then view the content on my HDTV via the sagetv extender HD-300 or build a few intel atom based clients. Again, I just am not sure what I will have to give up or what will be so different with experiences compared to a windows install.

Bagseed

[davephan]

I am also thinking about trying the Linux version. It would be nice to have an overview of the differences between the Windows and Linux version. Maybe this could be a FAQ or a Wiki. The lack of a trial has prevented me from pursuing the Linux version so far. However, I will probably buy the Linux version when I move my unRAID server onto a lower-end processor so that I can use my fast quad for the Linux build. I'm not sure if a quad will help with Linux though. It sure would be nice to have that consolidated overview SageTV Linux version FAQ or Wiki.

Dave

[jchiso]

At the very least I would like to see a guide for setting up an encoding-only Linux server with best practices and tips for setting up various capture devices. I've been wanting to migrate one of my Sage Media Centers to Linux for a few years now, but have been put off by the lack of documentation in recognition of the differences versus Windows ...

[zoop]

Originally Posted by jchiso

At the very least I would like to see a guide for setting up an encoding-only Linux server with best practices and tips for setting up various capture devices. I've been wanting to migrate one of my Sage Media Centers to Linux for a few years now, but have been put off by the lack of documentation in recognition of the differences versus Windows ...

unfortunately running a linux network encoder with a windows sagetv server is not supported... just fyi

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by zoop

unfortunately running a linux network encoder with a windows sagetv server is not supported... just fyi

I was referring to a Linux-based, encoding-only server, as opposed to a system being operated as a front end as well as back end. This would eliminate any and all of the playback-related issues you'd otherwise encounter in a Linux environment ...

[RocKKer]

Originally Posted by bagseed

A example would be comskip...it apparently works with extra tweaking using emulation, another example would be streaming netflix...apparently does not work period.

bagseed,
You use WINE to run comskip in Linux, and according to winehq.org - "Wine does not do any CPU emulation - hence the name "Wine Is Not an Emulator."
......Sorry couldn't resist!!

Seriously, rather than wait for a Wiki or FAQ, it might be best to describe the plugins and features your interested in, I'm sure someone can tell you if there is a Linux solution.

I run a relatively simple setup as described in my signature, (add to that SageMC and BMT plugins), so the basics work and I am very happy with it and I don't really long for additional features.

I highly recommend Ubuntu server - I ran Gentoo for a long time (not for STV) but with Ubuntu initially your up and running very quickly it's also easy to update (just updated from 9.10 > 10.04 > 10.10 uneventfully). You can use the debian install package for STV, the tar.gz isn't that hard either.

I wouldn't run anything but a media extender at each TV, cheap, quiet, reliable and work great!

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by RocKKer

... I highly recommend Ubuntu server... [you're] up and running very quickly it's also easy to update ... You can use the debian install package for STV. I wouldn't run anything but a media extender at each TV, cheap, quiet, reliable and work great!

That's the route I would go. I've been running various Ubuntu systems for a few years now without many problems. My additional concerns for the server would be set-top box control and setup for a Hauppauge HD-PVR or the like. Right now my STBs are controlled via COM ports and a DOS-based batch program via the .EXE tuner plugin. I don't yet have an HD-PVR, so I don't know if installation and setup within Linux is straightforward. I assume old, MPEG2 capture cards, such as the PVR-250, are fully-supported.

So I guess if we are itemizing I'd like to know how to set up:

• COM-port based STB control
• Hauppauge HD-PVR capture devices (multiple)

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by jchiso

My additional concerns for the server would be set-top box control and setup for a Hauppauge HD-PVR or the like.

Installation instructions for HD-PVR in Linux
1. Plug it in
2. Connect to computer via provided usb cable
3. Configure Sage (as you would in windows)

The HD-PVR in linux, is most likely easier to install in linux than Windows, since in linux, you simply connect the device... as apposed to windows, where you'll need to install drivers, reboot, etc.

The STB control is a little more complicated (in my oppinion) but my woes have been solved lately using CommandIR for ir blasting and the Gentuner plugin. Although I suspect that my issues were related to my USB hardware... The CommandIR team actually created a new firmware for their device, as a result of my issue, which fixed my ir blasting issue. Although I also fixed the issue by buying a new USB add-in card. (I also tried usb-uirt and ms blaster without success, but it is possible that they were affected by the same usb hardware issues that I experienced with the command ir)

I haven't tried comskip yet, but it's on my list of things to try.

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by zoop

unfortunately running a linux network encoder with a windows sagetv server is not supported... just fyi

It is supported in reverse though.

B

[JetreL]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Installation instructions for HD-PVR in Linux
1. Plug it in
2. Connect to computer via provided usb cable
3. Configure Sage (as you would in windows)

The HD-PVR in linux, is most likely easier to install in linux than Windows, since in linux, you simply connect the device... as apposed to windows, where you'll need to install drivers, reboot, etc.

Has this changed I had to recompile the kernel with a driver for the HD-PVR about a year a go.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by JetreL

Has this changed I had to recompile the kernel with a driver for the HD-PVR about a year a go.

I think when the HD PVR first came out, that was true. But since 10.04 I'm I haven't had to recompile the kernel. I think if you want to use the IR blaster on the HDPVR then you might need to re-compile the kernel, but it's not required if you all you are doing is using the capture facilities.

[bagseed]

Originally Posted by RocKKer

bagseed,
You use WINE to run comskip in Linux, and according to winehq.org - "Wine does not do any CPU emulation - hence the name "Wine Is Not an Emulator."
......Sorry couldn't resist!!

Seriously, rather than wait for a Wiki or FAQ, it might be best to describe the plugins and features your interested in, I'm sure someone can tell you if there is a Linux solution.

I run a relatively simple setup as described in my signature, (add to that SageMC and BMT plugins), so the basics work and I am very happy with it and I don't really long for additional features.

I highly recommend Ubuntu server - I ran Gentoo for a long time (not for STV) but with Ubuntu initially your up and running very quickly it's also easy to update (just updated from 9.10 > 10.04 > 10.10 uneventfully). You can use the debian install package for STV, the tar.gz isn't that hard either.

I wouldn't run anything but a media extender at each TV, cheap, quiet, reliable and work great!

Wine is a emulator, it emulates the environment of windows...thats where the compatibility layer comes in. I am aware it does not emulate hardware such as other x86 emulators or offer resource scheduling like vmware. You just make my case when you said comskip runs under wine, I already knew that. This is what I am saying we need clear concise documentation on what works, what works but after tweaks such as comskip+wine, what does not work now or will never. This matrix needs to me completed and compiled by the vendor mostly ..imho This allows users to make competent decisions and choose whats best for them and saves the end users much headache and or buyers remorse. In addition to compiling a concise comparability matrix ...I still think it would be great if sagetv released .iso's that a user could pop in there cd and install sagetv quickly with the installer being flexible by asking a few questions such as " Is this going to be a server/client" or " Is this going to be a server only " etc... The latter would allow someone who plans on running a sagetv server standalone and use extenders for viewing to install a system quickly that just works because it's pre-configured by sagetv. If .iso's are not a option then as I mentioned before repositories would be a great option. I could just add sagetv repos to my apt conf and then "apt-get install sagetv-client ...or sagetv-server ..or sagetv-client-srv if I wanted one machine to be a server and client. This would allow easy setup, easy updates without breaking systems. Again I just fell it's necessary for a complete concise matrix of what to expect if one was to purchase the Linux version. End users chiming in with this works, this does not ...I got it to work like this ..etc, is good and what forum communities are for; however you end up with scattered threads with bits and pieces of information that might be valid, invalid or simply overlooked by a potential customer. I to want to buy the linux version but since I can not test it and there is no documentation by the vendor ...I am gun shy. I don't like wasting money on gambling.

Not trying to be difficult ...this is just my opinion.

Bagseed.

[bcjenkins]

WINE is not an emulator. It is a rewrite of libraries aimed at providing the same functionality. Comskip needs windows to run, on Linux it just needs WINE. Really not that big of a deal and in fact TMiranda's comskip plugin takes care of the commands needed.

B

[bagseed]

http://linux.about.com/od/softorther...totherwine.htm

This translation layer is a software package that "emulates" the Microsoft Windows API (Application Programming Interface), but the developers emphasize that it is not an emulator in the sense that it adds an extra software layer on top of the native operating system, which would add memory and computation overhead and negatively affect performance.


Anything other then the original is an imitation therefore I think some of us consider it to be a compatibility / API emulator.

Anywho... thanks for pointing out the "TMiranda's comskip plugin" This is exactly the kind of stuff that needs to be documented on one place by the vendor.

[heffe2001]

As long as you have a Playon server running on a windows box, I believe the Netflix streaming works. It's not a shortcoming of Sage there, its the fact that Playon won't run under linux.

[bastafidli]

As long as you have a Playon server running on a windows box, I believe the Netflix streaming works. It's not a shortcoming of Sage there, its the fact that Playon won't run under linux.

Or you can run Windows VM with PlayOn on your Linux box running SageTV. That is how I run it and it works just fine.

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

Or you can run Windows VM with PlayOn on your Linux box running SageTV. That is how I run it and it works just fine.

That's what I'm going to at least try, just not sure I have enough HP to run the 3 on the same box..