Server w/4tuners & Client play ok

[mdmint]

My other two PVR250s arrived today. Got them installed as well as the Monster Cable 8way splitter and CELabs amp. (cable from street into amp, into two way splitter, feeding computer room with 8way (which feeds the Server's 4 PVR 250s - my main computer's ATI Radeon AIW & cable modem - two lead terminated for future use) the other from the initial 2way split goes about 75' to Living room and a 4way split with Client, two remaining VCRs and Tosh 55".

From Client fired off 4 recording sessions @DVD Standard 3.25Gb/hr then brought up a previously recorded session. No problem! Next to install Recorder on the Client and bring PVR250 #5 online via Network mode. (hopefully the directions I just printed off Sage website are still valid for Recorder v1.5 and Sagev2)

Not totally satisfied with output yet, like who is? Been reading lots of past posts on PQ and noticed the v2 color settings must be different calibration than previously talked about. I seem to recall some "reducing" brightness to 255 but the new default is 136 IRRC. I've backed it off to 130 rest 128 120 129 160 for now. Output wise running @1280x1024 output via ATI Radeon 9600 dongle 1080i to Toshiba 55HX70. Tosh can do 1080i, 480p&i but not 720p. I have no idea if these are "optimum" settings but it's a start! No stuttering or anything but seems abit pixy at times-@3.25Gb/hr. Tried VMR9 vs overlay and didn't seem to make much difference. Chances are I need to try some other decoders - just using the ATI came with the card.

Just glanced at the Server, man those 4 Raid5 250Gb HD lights are flying! Project coming along nicely me thinks. Just need to tweak in record/and or playback quality. (audio is great coax digital output using the Nforce on the Asus AN7N8X-E Dlx)

Oh, I guess this also confirms the NForce2 chipset AMD combo handles 4 slotted PVR250s no problem. (can't go 5 internal PVRs on the Server, only has 5 PCI slots and last slot has Raid5 controller )

[IVB]

I'm not sure what I'm more impressed by - your kick-butt server, or the fact that you know of 4 concurrent TV programs that you'd want to record :-)

[mdmint]

Originally posted by IVB
I'm not sure what I'm more impressed by - your kick-butt server, or the fact that you know of 4 concurrent TV programs that you'd want to record :-)

I already deleted two of them, it was just a test!

[TunaBoo]

I would never raid5 sage, as the data is so unimportant (to me). I would rather have extra space. And worst case if I lose 1 of 5 hard drives, I lose 20% of my recordings. Its not like I can't make it up on reruns.. but I am not as hardcore as others I guess


I would try the 2.5/3.0/3.5 gig/hour VBR settings that are around. Compressed video is compressed video, but VBR has made me much happier.

[mdmint]

Originally posted by TunaBoo
I would never raid5 sage, as the data is so unimportant (to me). I would rather have extra space. And worst case if I lose 1 of 5 hard drives, I lose 20% of my recordings. Its not like I can't make it up on reruns.. but I am not as hardcore as others I guess


I would try the 2.5/3.0/3.5 gig/hour VBR settings that are around. Compressed video is compressed video, but VBR has made me much happier.

Item first: You must not be married. If shows we record all season to watch later suddenly go bye-bye you can kiss the WAF factor good-bye and back to multiple VCR only recording. And it's not if but when a HD will fail. (I replaced two in different Servers on service calls just today. HD failure is the MOST common point of failure with power supply being second, from 20+ years field experince) I minimize the risk by 1) running redundant and 2) keeping things cool. My HD's being hammered are running 28-30C. Space wise 744Gb Raid5 storage plus 244Gb over flow on the mirrored set ought to get by for awhile. (6Gb on each for OS and Sage etc so not a full Tb, mirror set primary OS, ghost backup on Raid5 for failsafe if I make bad changes, safer than XP restore points) If I find I need more storage I'll add more.

Thanks for the suggestion on the VBR. I'd planned on giving them once I find where they are posted again and make the time for that tweaking.

[IVB]

Hey, what h/w card are you doing for RAID? I have the same mobo, and am going to implement RAID5 as soon as I get some other HTPC stuff up&running.

Also, what CPU did you go with?

[mdmint]

Originally posted by IVB
Hey, what h/w card are you doing for RAID? I have the same mobo, and am going to implement RAID5 as soon as I get some other HTPC stuff up&running.

Also, what CPU did you go with?

For the Server's Raid5 I went with Promise FastTrak S150 XS4 with 256M Kingston ECC. Yes it's uses some cpu overhead, but max CPU usage hammering test rebuilds highest priority around 15%. This was/is to be a dedicated PVR Server so I knew it wouldn't interfere since PVR250s have their own processors. And it hasn't. Limitation is only 4 SATA drives supported. Oh, CPU wise I'm using a AMD 2100+ with 512Mb 2700 I already had. (previously in my workstation that I upped to 3200+ and 3200 ram) I'm debating pulling the 2100+ and swapping it with the 1600+ that's in Debi's computer. Not that she needs it for email and web surfing... From my testing even a AMD 1600+ is way more than enough for the CPU assisted Raid5.

BTW, don't use AMD supplied heatsinks even if you buy a retail CPU. They be garbage. I've reduced my CPU temps about 30C going better after market. And of course Artic Silver thermal compound.

I matched it with Promises SuperSwap 1100 drive cages which gives tight monitoring and reporting, delayed HD startups to reduce powerup surge, each has indvidual fan, and of course hotswap capable. I don't like the 4 or 5 drive to a cage with a single larger fan. Yes quieter but if the single fan goes all HDs at risk. I'm running 2 additional drives off the sysbrd SATA Raid1 but not using Promise cages. Went with Cremax Serial ATA Mobile Rack - Model MB123SK for a couple reasons. They have three position key to kill power and release which should work better since the onboard SATA Raid1 controller does not support hotswap and 2nd because they were $35 each instead of closer to $70 for the Promise 1100s. The two additional WD 250s haven't arrived yet so I haven't been able to test if hotswap rebuild using the manual powering the drive off then back on for the mirror will work off the sysbrd ctrl. It may not support auto rebuild or even have the software interface for initiating rebuild from OS. If not worst case scenario will be turn off a failed mirrored drive, remove it and install the new drive in the carrier, put it back it and reboot when not recording and ini rebuild on POST.

If I had to do it again I "might" have gone with a more (much more) expensive SATA Raid controller that supported 8 or 12 drives for future external expansion. (The mini ATX Server case I picked is matched with the 6 HDs each using a 5&1/4 bay plus cd for installs etc, didn't bother with a FDD) I'll know if I regret the decision on the S150 in a year or so! Obviously this type of setup is for Server only NOT Client, it is of course not quiet.

[TunaBoo]

I live with my GF, and the GAF is quite high. Before sage she missed 90% of her shows because of work conflicts. Now she misses .000001% if a hard drive would fail.. OH NO!!

Not using AMD's heatsink is stupid. It is well built, and designed for the proc it is used on. Using a heavier aftermarket one is likely to

a) crunch the CPU core
b) cause stress fractures on the CPU core
c) damage the mounting brackets on the ZIF socket

amoung other things. In many years of building CPUs, I know when to leave stuff alone and when not to. For a HTPC, there is _NO_ reason not to use the OEM heatsink. (And we don't even get into how the best AS can do is about 1 degree C, which will not matter in any way).

If you reduced your CPU temps 30C by going aftermarket, you have NO clue how to properly install a heatsink. Out of the box at max loads, AMD CPU's will sit around 45C. So you cut this down to 15C, which is below room temperature, with air cooling? ROFLMAO



I have done all ends of computers from instutions to hardcore overclocking (water cooled, etc.). Heat is always your computer's biggest enemy, but there are many ways to control this within reason.

If you feel it justified to make your HTPC cost $1000 more so you can have raid 5, then go for it. My life does not revolve around TV, and missing a show and having to watch it as a rerun will not ruin my life.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by IVB
Hey, what h/w card are you doing for RAID? I have the same mobo, and am going to implement RAID5 as soon as I get some other HTPC stuff up&running.

Also, what CPU did you go with?

I'd seriously look at 3ware, the 7000 series is a great value if you're looking PATA, and the 9000 series looks to be the best out there if you want SATA.

I'm hoping to be able to load up a 9000-12 with 7K400s (or some other big-ass drive).

[Deadbolt]

Stock AMD cooling fan is too loud for my taste.

[mdmint]

Originally posted by TunaBoo
I live with my GF, and the GAF is quite high. Before sage she missed 90% of her shows because of work conflicts. Now she misses .000001% if a hard drive would fail.. OH NO!!

Not using AMD's heatsink is stupid. It is well built, and designed for the proc it is used on. Using a heavier aftermarket one is likely to

a) crunch the CPU core
b) cause stress fractures on the CPU core
c) damage the mounting brackets on the ZIF socket

amoung other things. In many years of building CPUs, I know when to leave stuff alone and when not to. For a HTPC, there is _NO_ reason not to use the OEM heatsink. (And we don't even get into how the best AS can do is about 1 degree C, which will not matter in any way).

If you reduced your CPU temps 30C by going aftermarket, you have NO clue how to properly install a heatsink. Out of the box at max loads, AMD CPU's will sit around 45C. So you cut this down to 15C, which is below room temperature, with air cooling? ROFLMAO



I have done all ends of computers from instutions to hardcore overclocking (water cooled, etc.). Heat is always your computer's biggest enemy, but there are many ways to control this within reason.

If you feel it justified to make your HTPC cost $1000 more so you can have raid 5, then go for it. My life does not revolve around TV, and missing a show and having to watch it as a rerun will not ruin my life.

Your reply merely demonstrates you ignorance. Minimum required AMD cpu small aluminum heatseak versus large all copper heavily finned. Gee, what metal conducts heat better. Using a heavier heatsink there is NO DANGER of cpu damage unless YOU don't know how to install a heatsink properly. And I won't even start to compare a 40mm high speed fan noise and cooling capacity compared to overhead 120mm slow turning quiet fan...

BTW, out of the box older AMD early XP processors (like a 2100) where and are notorious for running close to 70c idle with stock AMD approved and supplied thermal solution. Even with good properly applied thin film of Artic Silver mid to upper 60s.

I have no more need of justifying my $5k on my Sage Server than I do of the 3 weeks spent vacationing in Hawaii earlier this year. I work hard AND play hard. That's 20+ years in the computer hardware side of the field... My server is lightweight compared to stuff I work on like oh let's say an 8-way Xeon with mult-Tb of SAN storage etc...

[kny3twalker]

your server kicks @$$


and my friend did the same thing for his new AMD computer but this was like four months ago
change stock heatsink with copper and added artic silver
He told me he got his processor down to 45 degrees C and I was damn that hot in comparsion to mine Intel, LOL

[mdmint]

Originally posted by stanger89
I'd seriously look at 3ware, the 7000 series is a great value if you're looking PATA, and the 9000 series looks to be the best out there if you want SATA.

I'm hoping to be able to load up a 9000-12 with 7K400s (or some other big-ass drive).

If I was starting my Server over I don't think I'd go with the limitation of the Promise 4drv Raid5 plus onboard ctrl Raid1 for a mere Tb total. I based my design on what we'd need if we followed our previous recording pattern using 3 simultaneous VCRs recording and then doubled it.

"Unfortunately" SageTV is WAY TOO EASY! Especially with 5 tuners. Uh, it's now the 25th and the Server has been online only since the 14th, over 270Gb of the 1Tb used up. And watched and deleted maybe 6hrs or so worth. I am of course using 3.25Gb/hr so it chews up space fast. But I compared some slower settings and could see the definite difference. So I'll likely be looking at a more flexible expandable additional controller in a separate box for Networked storage. The 3ware for up to a dozen SATA HDs high on the list of future solutions. And yes, the new 400Gb'ers may be a possibility.

[Llamas]

I disagree with both of you, but hopeful in a more polite manner. I'm using AMD retail heat sinks on a couple of different machines, and with basic case ventilation, my CPU temperatures are in the 40-45C range. That said, there are quieter aftermarket products, one of which I use in another machine, and I haven't heard of issues with these for years. Several years ago there were concerns that a clumsy install could damage the CPU, but I believe that was addressed.

Anyway, I'm another RAID5 user (4 x 250 PATA on a Promise SX4000). I use RAID5 because I've had (expanded) Tivo drives fail, and nothing (in the context of this hobby) sucks worse than losing six weeks worth of a show where the extended plot matters. Sure, I can, and have, download the episode off the net, but there goes some of my time. Speaking of time, I also store my music on the RAID volume. I can tell you in no uncertain terms that the extra $300 ($150 drive, $150 controller) is worth the time it has taken (hell, I'm not even done, yet!) to rip all of my CDs. It's also a good backup point for important documents from other machines in the house.

Now that my testimonial is complete...

I mounted my stuff in a single server case, one that actually has room for another four drives. Depending on the day, I'll either tell you that I wish I had spend a little extra for an 8 drive card that allowed on the fly expansion (I think the LSI cards can do this), or I'll shrug and say it wasn't worth THAT much extra money, at least not over the less expensive RAID5 solution. I can always add a second array with a second card. I've already got more TV than I can watch waiting for me, though, so additional storage is not too high on my list, right now.

Has anyone started using the Hitachi 400GB drives, yet? You have have your RAID5 and terrabyte, too!

--Mike