Win 7 64 bit and Firewire 1394 channel change

[tvmaster2]

are there still no apps that run on a 64 bit install for set-top box channel change?
is it a limitation of the app, the OS, or the set-top box?
I thought W7 64 bit ran 32 bit apps ok, no?

[macsupergeek]

I believe its a driver issue, that 64 bit doesn't have firewire drivers to address the boxes for the app to see. So I guess its an OS issue then.

[sleonard]

W7-x64 can run x32 applications but drivers must be 64 bit. There are no 64-bit drivers for set-top boxes.

S

[xred]

Originally Posted by macsupergeek

I believe its a driver issue, that 64 bit doesn't have firewire drivers to address the boxes for the app to see. So I guess its an OS issue then.

Anyone tried third party drivers for X64?

http://www.unibrain.com/download/download.asp

[tvmaster2]

for some reason, this software question has been moved to the hardware section, but don't let that confuse you with regards to answering or offering suggestions - it's a software issue from what I can see, aka drivers and OS.
cheers

[Taddeusz]

The crux of the matter is that the person that originally put the firewire recording stuff together, Tim Moore, vanished and so official development on those drivers and tools ceased. I don't think he actually wrote the drivers though. I believe there has been talk about someone writing 64-bit drivers but so far there has been nothing done in that department.

I suspect the actual interest in creating 64-bit drivers is due to the number of people who would be using them. Like it or not we are a minuscule minority of all computer users. Anyone writing the drivers would probably be doing it on their own time. Just doesn't make a lot of sense for most people who have the knowledge for the task.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

The crux of the matter is that the person that originally put the firewire recording stuff together, Tim Moore, vanished and so official development on those drivers and tools ceased. I don't think he actually wrote the drivers though. I believe there has been talk about someone writing 64-bit drivers but so far there has been nothing done in that department.

I suspect the actual interest in creating 64-bit drivers is due to the number of people who would be using them. Like it or not we are a minuscule minority of all computer users. Anyone writing the drivers would probably be doing it on their own time. Just doesn't make a lot of sense for most people who have the knowledge for the task.

sounds like reality. If I was software inclines I'd do it, but I do not speak code
Thanks

[panteragstk]

Does the stb have active usb ports? You might be able to use serial tuning if it does. I don't know of anything other than drectv that can use it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other stb's that have that ability.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Does the stb have active usb ports? You might be able to use serial tuning if it does. I don't know of anything other than drectv that can use it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other stb's that have that ability.

yes, it does have a USB port. Cox Cable Motorola DCH3200. No idea if it is active for any use

[sleonard]

If memory serves me correctly, the drivers were extracted from a Japanese application called CapDVHS and were written by Toshiba. Tim packaged those drivers and wrote the other utilities to make the drivers useful for people like us. The details are now fuzzy but that's close to how it happened. If 64 bit drivers are ever going to happen someone will have to start from scratch and hack the communications and control commands from the set top boxes. I'd love to try but have no idea how to even get started.

S

[wayner]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Does the stb have active usb ports? You might be able to use serial tuning if it does. I don't know of anything other than drectv that can use it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other stb's that have that ability.

That depends on how you define active. I believe the USB ports on my SA/Cisco boxes are powered so they can charge your iPod. But they can't do much else. Apparently they were put there to allow you to use a keyboard as these STBs were supposed to be capable of email - hence the "mail" indicator on the boxes. But I don't know if that was ever implemented.

I built a new Sage server late last year and the only reason that I used 32 bit Windows was for FireWire channel changing.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by wayner

That depends on how you define active. I believe the USB ports on my SA/Cisco boxes are powered so they can charge your iPod. But they can't do much else. Apparently they were put there to allow you to use a keyboard as these STBs were supposed to be capable of email - hence the "mail" indicator on the boxes. But I don't know if that was ever implemented.

I built a new Sage server late last year and the only reason that I used 32 bit Windows was for FireWire channel changing.

yup, same here. Just dreaming of that extra ram. Guess the dream will have to continue

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by wayner

That depends on how you define active. I believe the USB ports on my SA/Cisco boxes are powered so they can charge your iPod. But they can't do much else. Apparently they were put there to allow you to use a keyboard as these STBs were supposed to be capable of email - hence the "mail" indicator on the boxes. But I don't know if that was ever implemented.

I built a new Sage server late last year and the only reason that I used 32 bit Windows was for FireWire channel changing.

Active meaning functioning fully. That is why I said that. I know that most ports on cable stb's are inactive. I don't know why firewire would be active and usb wouldn't, but I don't expect cable companies to understand logic.

[sleonard]

Because firewire ports are required by law to be active and functioning. There are TV's and DVHS machines that have firewire inputs.

S

[wayner]

Originally Posted by sleonard

Because firewire ports are required by law to be active and functioning.

In case any other Canadians are around - note that this isn't the case in Canada. In this instance the CRTC is not as consumer friendly as the FCC. The same for CableCARD.

I believe the law in the US is also interpreted to mean that cable cos have to offer "A" box that has active and functioning firewire ports but they don't necessarily have to have them on all of their STBs.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by wayner

In case any other Canadians are around - note that this isn't the case in Canada. In this instance the CRTC is not as consumer friendly as the FCC. The same for CableCARD.

I believe the law in the US is also interpreted to mean that cable cos have to offer "A" box that has active and functioning firewire ports but they don't necessarily have to have them on all of their STBs.

yes, that is the case in the U.S., at least until the cable-co's lobbyists can have it changed. Didn't realize Canada would not mandate the same thing.

[texneus]

That agrees with my recolection of how the 32 bit drivers came to be. Since there is no source code the 64 bit drivers cannot be created without significant effort. I also recall someone looking into signing costs required for 64 bit drivers and the cost was prohibitive.

In all honesty, firewire's days are pretty much done. It never was mainstream on the PC and Mac have moved on To Thunderbolt. When I bought a new motherboard ~6 months ago the number of Haswell boards with "firewire on board" was exactly null. While "firewire on board" was never exactly common, it wasn't something that required a lot of looking either. I also haven't seen a TV offered with a 1394 input in over 10 years.

On my new build I've moved to a USBUIRT partly out of concern that firewire may be absent in future STBs but also partly because I'm no longer restricted to 32 bit Windows. The USBUIRT isn't as fast as firewire, but seems a lot less hit or miss than the WMC blasters I used in the past.

[c5davey]

Originally Posted by texneus

In all honesty, firewire's days are pretty much done. It never was mainstream on the PC and Mac have moved on To Thunderbolt. When I bought a new motherboard ~6 months ago the number of Haswell boards with "firewire on board" was exactly null. While "firewire on board" was never exactly common, it wasn't something that required a lot of looking either. I also haven't seen a TV offered with a 1394 input in over 10 years.

Just in case anyone is interested, there is still one Haswell m/b with "firewire on board", it is the Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H. The Z87 chipset has now been replaced with the Z97 chipset and none of the latest m/b have firewire. I'm debating whether to pick up this m/b as a backup or just get the latest m/b when the time comes and get a pci/pci-e firewire card since I will still be using SageTV for years to come.

[Tomahawk51]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

yup, same here. Just dreaming of that extra ram. Guess the dream will have to continue

I started using "fancy cache" to leverage some ram in my 32bit Win7 system that otherwise wasn't being used.

If you search around, you'll find Fuzzy talking about that solution (and answering some questions from me about it).

Seems to not have impacted my stability...but I didn't do performance tests to see impact either (just assumed).

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by c5davey

Just in case anyone is interested, there is still one Haswell m/b with "firewire on board", it is the Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H. The Z87 chipset has now been replaced with the Z97 chipset and none of the latest m/b have firewire. I'm debating whether to pick up this m/b as a backup or just get the latest m/b when the time comes and get a pci/pci-e firewire card since I will still be using SageTV for years to come.

I have three Gigsbyte boards, and on AS Rock, all with FireWire. It still is useful for lots of things, mainly video cameras...