Prime is Available for Preorder!

[stevech]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

SiliconDust has stated that for Sagetv to natively see the video from Prime a change is required in both the sagetv software and the silicondust software, and that has not yet happened.

Perhaps this is referring to the simple case of non-DRM (copy freely) content.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

No TiVo allows this oncopy freely content and always have. Drm content is still locked down. You can do the same with wmc files that are copy freely (and why sagedct works). Even if they are doing what you think the files that have drm still would and would be useless. TiVo allows copying and converting for all none drm content.

Do we need a retired cryptologist from the NSA to help?

[jptheripper]

Originally Posted by stevech

Perhaps this is referring to the simple case of non-DRM (copy freely) content.

For Prime to work AT ALL, (unless babgvant comes up with something), changes need to be made. From SIlicondust forum:

"Jasonl
Silicondust

Posted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:40 pm We have no information regarding if Sage has plans to add DRM support for copy protected channels. For copy freely channels, it is something that can be done but will require updates to our software and SageTV in order to work. We will work with SageTV on this but can not guarantee anything at this point."

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/vie...ghlight=sagetv

[themeister]

The folks at SD have agreed to work with Sage. Now, can we get a statement from the folks at Sage that they will work with SD? I just want the HDHR Prime to work with my SageTV setup, since the HDHR did such a good job until the Cable Company reduced it to about 10 local QAM channels.

My hope is that posts like this can help make it happen.

--Bill

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by themeister

The folks at SD have agreed to work with Sage. Now, can we get a statement from the folks at Sage that they will work with SD? I just want the HDHR Prime to work with my SageTV setup, since the HDHR did such a good job until the Cable Company reduced it to about 10 local QAM channels.

My hope is that posts like this can help make it happen.

--Bill

I wouldn't count on DRM support just copy freely support at best.

[themeister]

Copy freely would be just fine, for now.

[nebulink]

I also would be happy with copy freely content. The biggest thing for me is to know that support is provided by Sage.

[jptheripper]

Originally Posted by themeister

Copy freely would be just fine, for now.

Right, but depending on your cable provider, the copy freely channels might only be the "10 local QAM channels", as you stated. There are no guarantees otherwise.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

Right, but depending on your cable provider, the copy freely channels might only be the "10 local QAM channels", as you stated. There are no guarantees otherwise.

That's the case here, and probably all TimeWarner/Cox markets. Unless you are in to watching junk on the four networks, DRM/copy-once forces one to pay for one or more set top boxes to use the analog hole (component video out). Until CableCo disables that port, as they have eSATA on the STBs!

[Sparhawk6]

I am fairly certain that Sage will not provide any official support for copy-freely channels on the HD Prime. They could have done that for the Ceton tuner, but haven't. Why would it be any different with the HD Prime?

Sage seems content with making a product that is behind-the-times in terms of capabilities. I don't have sympathy for them with respect to the cabelcard issue - you built your business and product around recording and capturing content created by someone else. If the content providers put onerous restrictions on the use of that content, and despite your best efforts, the FCC hasn't intervened, shouldn't you fall in line?!?! Otherwise, the entire purpose of your product is gone! Seems to me that that is the nature of the business where you depend on someone else to create the content.

As each day passes without me being able to record all the channels I get from my cable provider without setting up some wonky, analog system that requires me to buy multiple set top boxes at $180 per box per year (the whole reason I went to sage was to get away from the cable STBs and DVRs), the more I regret my decision to buy into the Sage system.

[jptheripper]

Paragraph by paragraph:

1. I believe they will, b/c they have a great working relationship with SiliconDust and existing product support. This makes them very different from Ceton
2. This is a blatantly false generalization. Cablecard is a niche. It is not supported in Europe, Satellite, etc.. And it is likely going away in favor of AllVid. It would be a waste of time for Sagetv to add support, especially since they have never supported DRM in any for, and alot of us prefer that.
3. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. If you did your research, you would have known that this is what Sage Supports. Otherwise your only choice is your cable DVR (no extenders) or WMC (extenders with pitiful codec support). This FAIL is on you, not SAGE.

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

I am fairly certain that Sage will not provide any official support for copy-freely channels on the HD Prime. They could have done that for the Ceton tuner, but haven't. Why would it be any different with the HD Prime?

Sage seems content with making a product that is behind-the-times in terms of capabilities. I don't have sympathy for them with respect to the cabelcard issue - you built your business and product around recording and capturing content created by someone else. If the content providers put onerous restrictions on the use of that content, and despite your best efforts, the FCC hasn't intervened, shouldn't you fall in line?!?! Otherwise, the entire purpose of your product is gone! Seems to me that that is the nature of the business where you depend on someone else to create the content.

As each day passes without me being able to record all the channels I get from my cable provider without setting up some wonky, analog system that requires me to buy multiple set top boxes at $180 per box per year (the whole reason I went to sage was to get away from the cable STBs and DVRs), the more I regret my decision to buy into the Sage system.

[stevech]

On the below....
re (1): I understand that the impediment to Sage supporting CableCARD is money. To receive DRM protected content, (no matter whence it came),, as I understand, one has to go through the CableLABS certification process so the content owners are convinced their content cannot likely be "stolen" (right). Since SiliconDust's cableCARD certified product delivers DRM content via ethernet - to the apparently ONLY software also certified to receive DRM (Microsoft Media Center). Microsoft probably had to expend 0.000000000000000000001% of their annual sales to get MC certified. I have no idea what that costs but it apparently is too expensive for Sage, unless I'm all wrong about the process. I recall from my professional work years ago that DOCSIS certification for cable modems was in the order of 50K assuming the design was correct and vetted properly.

Re (2) cableCARD per se is a niche? All the set top boxes are declared DRM trusted because they have a cableCARD inserted by the cable or satellite company. Same for TiVo and Dish/Direct. Is this a niche?

re (3) It may be that Sage will be unable to sustain/grow without an HD/DRM era support of DRM, as has been done by Microsoft - for their indeed unpopular/niche MC product. As MC falters, it improves Sage's opportunities to come out of the enthusiasts' closet.

If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to call me on it.

Originally Posted by jptheripper

Paragraph by paragraph:

1. I believe they will, b/c they have a great working relationship with SiliconDust and existing product support. This makes them very different from Ceton
2. This is a blatantly false generalization. Cablecard is a niche. It is not supported in Europe, Satellite, etc.. And it is likely going away in favor of AllVid. It would be a waste of time for Sagetv to add support, especially since they have never supported DRM in any for, and alot of us prefer that.
3. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. If you did your research, you would have known that this is what Sage Supports. Otherwise your only choice is your cable DVR (no extenders) or WMC (extenders with pitiful codec support). This FAIL is on you, not SAGE.

[Sparhawk6]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

Paragraph by paragraph:

1. I believe they will, b/c they have a great working relationship with SiliconDust and existing product support. This makes them very different from Ceton
2. This is a blatantly false generalization. Cablecard is a niche. It is not supported in Europe, Satellite, etc.. And it is likely going away in favor of AllVid. It would be a waste of time for Sagetv to add support, especially since they have never supported DRM in any for, and alot of us prefer that.
3. Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. If you did your research, you would have known that this is what Sage Supports. Otherwise your only choice is your cable DVR (no extenders) or WMC (extenders with pitiful codec support). This FAIL is on you, not SAGE.

re No. 2: You must be European. The gateway to all cable channels besides network channels in the US is not a niche. Re AllVid: That is a long way off. A very long way. I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see this until about 3 or 4 years from today. And isn't it convenient to do nothing on cablecard for years until there is talk of a replacement, and then declare "cablecard is dead, no use in supporting it."

re No. 3: I bought into Sage long before cablecard was around. Here's what I saw Sage as: a method apart from cable-provided STBs and DVRs of recording the channels I subscribe to as part of my cable package. Why was it poor planning on my part to assume that was true? And besides, I have never seen any statement from Sage that they will never support CableCard or DRM'd content. If you look on their product page, it's not there. Like I said, I assumed that Sage would be a method to record my shows without a STB or cable-provided DVR, and therefore I assumed that the company would do what was necessary to make that true. But it hasn't, because it was too expensive, or because of some undisclosed commitment to some anti-DRM credo.

[jptheripper]

Nope, im in florida.

I say cable card is a niche because it is at the consumer level. You cannot rent a cable card from satellite, so they are out. Cant get in europe. So that leaves you FIOS and Cabletv. so, maybe, half to a third of the US population?

Now take that group, and count the number that rent a cablecard, either in their TV or ceton. I would guess that group is statistically insignificant. That being said, i am guess.

However, its is all moot. Cablecard requires DRM. Sage does not do DRM. Their HD solutions are clearQAM, and analog hole. Always have been. And if you bought 3-4 years ago, HD solutions were limited at best. You got what you paid for. Expecting something different to occur is

Nevermind. Sorry. I'm off this topic.

[jace055]

I don't want to get in the middle of an argument or anything. I am a Media Center user that is looking to switch to Sage for expanded codec support with extenders but I am waiting on cable card support to switch.

Why did SageTV LLC pay upwards of $50,000 for a Microsoft PlayReady license if they were not going to use it for cable card?

Would they pay that much to have a native Netflix plugin or Amazon on demand plugin?

I know that SageTV has always taken the "No DRM" stance on things but then why pay all of the money for a DRM licence?

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by jace055

I know that SageTV has always taken the "No DRM" stance on things but then why pay all of the money for a DRM licence?

Google actually bought it and put it in Sage's name. By doing so they get Sage users wondering what the heck is going on, they get MC users looking at Sage as a possible alternative, while Google quietly takes over the world.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Google actually bought it and put it in Sage's name. By doing so they get Sage users wondering what the heck is going on, they get MC users looking at Sage as a possible alternative, while Google quietly takes over the world.

Are sure it wasn't wal-mart?

[LexLS]

Now I haven't read everything in this thread and I don't know anything about all this DRM stuff but, isn't this all just speculation until someone actually gets a Prime and tries it with Sage?

Based on my brief overview of this thread: does the Prime work with SageTV? No one knows for sure. Someone needs to try it.

Back to the topic. I've been waiting for this to be released since I heard about it. At this point I'm on the fence to pre-order it...although I've dropped $250 to test other things before. Wait, I need to update to win7 for this so I'll wait follow and see. Either way I hope this product does work with Sage because it's such a great whole house media solution.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by LexLS

Now I haven't read everything in this thread and I don't know anything about all this DRM stuff but, isn't this all just speculation until someone actually gets a Prime and tries it with Sage?

No

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by LexLS

Now I haven't read everything in this thread and I don't know anything about all this DRM stuff but, isn't this all just speculation until someone actually gets a Prime and tries it with Sage?

No, SiliconDust already said Sage would have to update their software to be compatible with the HDHR Prime. And even then, Sage doesn't support the DRM necessary to access copy protected channels. It's possible, though probably unlikely, that Sage will someday add DRM support, but it doesn't now.

And, I think I can confidently that if Sage ever decides to add DRM support, it would be during an extended break between releases. In the past, big changes to the Sage software have always been preceded by a long gap between software releases. Sage is in the middle of a beta cycle now, so it seems to be safe to say they haven't been working on DRM support.