Community Comments on Google's Acquisition of SageTV

[kcjack]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

My point was that they did not screw you, and no-one ran over anyone with a bus numerous times. The feature list of the SageTV software did not even mention the extender, though it did mention placeshifter (with a link to the purchase page for placeshifter) and that you could stream to other PC's with SageTV installed. It never once mentioned the ability to expand that system at a later time.

I am happy with the whole house system I got with SageTv. I purchased a Sever license, a Media center licence, 3 Client licenses and 2 HD300. The whole household uses it and I did not need to be a rocket scientist to make it all work. These forums and the people on this forum were fundamental in getting my system up and going. I have purchased everything starting just last September 9th so I have less than a year on my SageTV system and less than 1/2 year on the whole house. I was able to drop Dish and still have a happy family with all the content available through out the house. With Teenagers that is amazing. ( They like telling what alternate shows they can view.)

My only concern is that with just one year of service I will have less than 2 years before the EPG does not work and there will be no forum after that time to come back to with any forum initiated EPG service. I am afraid my investment of 2 HD300 ($300), 3 Client license ($90), Media Center license ($100), and a Server license ($90) not to mention buying a mediasmart server $650, Total about $1250. 2 Years of service just does not cut it or 1 yr from time of announcement.

I think someone else said if this was a car u would be furious. Car companies make provisions for continued service. I know it won't change, but to bad SageTv didn't push Google for two years. I think most people would have been happy with that.

My ROI for equipment bought by dropping Dish was 14 months. Looks like my saving plan over my kids high school years was a bust.

[jorton]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm still upset I can't get all of this stuff I was promised I'd be able to buy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_XrIx2eUGc

Hey! I didn't get a free pacman!

[7up]

not mine but tv client licenses are now showing up ebay...

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by jorton

Hey! I didn't get a free pacman!

Seriously? That was the whole selling point. You were able to play the most popular arcade game around. Maybe Canada thought it would cause obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and shorten your lifespan by 22 minutes per hour of playing, ultimately raising the cost of medical insurance, so they saved you from what has happened here in the US?

[speck55]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

A group of us are working to develop a Boxee app that will serve as an extender. It will never be as good as a HD300, but it should be very functional.

Great, and we'll be getting the client/extender/placeshifter licenses to use with this app from.....?

[samgreco]

Gees-Louise!

Companies get bought.
Companies go out of business.
Companies quit making stuff.

Hitch up your panties and move on!

There's nothing you can do. You can't MAKE them. Get over it and put your energies into coming up with other solutions or supporting someone who is, like tmiranda and whoever he's working with to create a Boxee client. Or whatever.

No I'm going to Ford to see where my new 1965 Mustang is....

[speck55]

Originally Posted by samgreco

Gees-Louise!

Companies get bought.
Companies go out of business.
Companies quit making stuff.

Hitch up your panties and move on!

There's nothing you can do. You can't MAKE them. Get over it and put your energies into coming up with other solutions or supporting someone who is, like tmiranda and whoever he's working with to create a Boxee client. Or whatever.

No I'm going to Ford to see where my new 1965 Mustang is....

Uh, I hate to break it to you, but that vintage Mustang has a massive following and tons of aftermarket and OEM parts available from manifold to muffler.

EDIT: Add to the end of my post "Or whatever".

There.

[samgreco]

That's not the point. I want a brand new one from the factory (HD300 anyone).

I hate having to explain my cryptic sarcasm

[speck55]

Originally Posted by samgreco

That's not the point. I want a brand new one from the factory (HD300 anyone).

I hate having to explain my cryptic sarcasm

I think myself and others' point here is this, and I will state it one more time:

1. Yes, SageTV, Jeff, et. al. had every right and probably a lot of incentive to sell out.

2. BUT they had NEGOTIATIONS and could have put in mechanisms to slowly wind down sales of licenses and HD300's.

3. Jeff's side did nothing of the sort as mentioned in #3. The less conditions, the quicker the check gets stamped and sent out.

4. ZERO DAY NOTICE OF NO MORE SALES may not technically be illegal, is only grey area unethical, but *IS* downright wrong. Y'know, corporate types, that whole right and wrong thing you have yet to master? Like stealing wrong, buying right. Like screwing user base and devs and everyone that got you on Google's radar by immediately shuttering the store, is WRONG. Giving the user base and developers a day or a week to finish buying what they need, RIGHT.

[OneThomas]

I've been reading all the posts about this, and never responded as what is the point - preaching to the choir. But - I personally feel that the owners of SageTV screwed over the customers. SageTV was NOT an install once and never touch again piece of software. There were bugs - and the user/developer community helped the owners of SageTV fix those bugs and evolve the product into a stellar product.

There was no warning that the doors would be closed, no thank you for helping make this product what it evolved into with your devotion, no "clearance sale".

Just Google bought us, goodbye.

I don't have what I had at the beginning of the year. A supported product that I relied heavily on and knew had stellar support - from these forums and the company itself.

Would I have sold the company if it was mine and the price was right, probably. I was not in the person shoes and can't judge that decision.

Do I feel shafted because I was a devoted user of Sage, praised it to all that asked, and dropped quite a lot of money on a product and accessories - absolutely.

Will I abandon my setup right now and start using something/anything else - undecided. But - for a few weeks now, Google videos have been broken, and not update has popped up on the software as it once would have. That seems to validate my "abandonment" issues with Sage.

Overnight we went from having a heavily supported product, with limitless expansion capabilites, and high hopes for the future growth of the product - to having a shutdown product website, and virtual silence as what to expect next, if anything.

I do not buy into the Car comparisons. That is apples and oranges. There are parts abound for used/older cars. There was ONE source for fully compatible SAGE products - and it has been shutdown, with no warning.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by speck55

Great, and we'll be getting the client/extender/placeshifter licenses to use with this app from.....?

No licenses necessary.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by OneThomas

I've been reading all the posts about this, and never responded as what is the point - preaching to the choir. But - I personally feel that the owners of SageTV screwed over the customers. SageTV was NOT an install once and never touch again piece of software. There were bugs - and the user/developer community helped the owners of SageTV fix those bugs and evolve the product into a stellar product.

There was no warning that the doors would be closed, no thank you for helping make this product what it evolved into with your devotion, no "clearance sale".

Just Google bought us, goodbye.

I don't have what I had at the beginning of the year. A supported product that I relied heavily on and knew had stellar support - from these forums and the company itself.

Would I have sold the company if it was mine and the price was right, probably. I was not in the person shoes and can't judge that decision.

Do I feel shafted because I was a devoted user of Sage, praised it to all that asked, and dropped quite a lot of money on a product and accessories - absolutely.

Will I abandon my setup right now and start using something/anything else - undecided. But - for a few weeks now, Google videos have been broken, and not update has popped up on the software as it once would have. That seems to validate my "abandonment" issues with Sage.

Overnight we went from having a heavily supported product, with limitless expansion capabilites, and high hopes for the future growth of the product - to having a shutdown product website, and virtual silence as what to expect next, if anything.

I do not buy into the Car comparisons. That is apples and oranges. There are parts abound for used/older cars. There was ONE source for fully compatible SAGE products - and it has been shutdown, with no warning.

+1

"Full speed ahead" (oh, BTW, and no brakes, into a brick wall). If it can't be fixed or addressed via a plugin dev, we're screwed. If it's a core feature that breaks, don't expect anything. The silence on Soogle's part is deafening to the point my ears are going to start bleeding (or is that my elevated blood pressure that happens every time I go on one of these rants?). Jeff, I hope you eat well, and sleep even better at night. Just remember the people that put you on G*'s radar, left for dead for the sake of another of Google's abortions of a TV attempt, that will be in a mason jar soon enough, and a few bucks.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by Slugger

No licenses necessary.

How so? Alternate API? I'd be interested in helping develop in that case. But is this project to include LiveTV, SMM support, etc?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by speck55

How so? Alternate API? I'd be interested in helping develop in that case. But is this project to include LiveTV, SMM support, etc?

That's I think what you aren't getting about sage... just BECAUSE of the 3rd party community, if there's a demand for it, it will still be usable (in some form or another)... y'know... a lot like that huge aftermarket of mustang parts. Sagetv is a VERY open system.. Then entire UI is completely replaceable. The 'important part', the recording system and underlying database, still functions. Hell, even if new tuner hardware comes out, if there is the demand for it's use in sage, sage has a completely agnostic, network based, network tuner system BUILT RIGHT IN that any programmer with the inclination could use to add support for a given tuner to the SageTV server. There's already work in the opposite direction to utilize SageTV network encoders in nPVR (sgraphrecorder, and R5000HD). SageTV, LLC is dead.. gobbled up by google... Jeff and Andy may never be heard from again... that doesn't mean they took ANYTHING from anyone. They gave is a great, relatively open system, with which we can pretty much do whatever we want at this point.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by speck55

How so? Alternate API? I'd be interested in helping develop in that case. But is this project to include LiveTV, SMM support, etc?

You need a functioning SageTV 7 server installation. And the Sagex-Remote API services installed along with jetty and the web server. Right now it gives the Sage Main menu and lists and plays recordings with some metadata. The plan is to go as far as they can with showing the epg, managing favorites, etc. This is built using the boxee api so it shows up as a Boxee application. So with this you would only need a Boxee box (or install Boxee on the PC) to extend your Sage client reach. It is being worked on by several individuals with the source code readily available. Now if more people would put an effort in helping this might get farther quicker. What's gone is gone but here is a way to keep SageTV relevant even longer.

Gerry

[speck55]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

That's I think what you aren't getting about sage... just BECAUSE of the 3rd party community, if there's a demand for it, it will still be usable (in some form or another)... y'know... a lot like that huge aftermarket of mustang parts. Sagetv is a VERY open system.. Then entire UI is completely replaceable. The 'important part', the recording system and underlying database, still functions. Hell, even if new tuner hardware comes out, if there is the demand for it's use in sage, sage has a completely agnostic, network based, network tuner system BUILT RIGHT IN that any programmer with the inclination could use to add support for a given tuner to the SageTV server. There's already work in the opposite direction to utilize SageTV network encoders in nPVR (sgraphrecorder, and R5000HD). SageTV, LLC is dead.. gobbled up by google... Jeff and Andy may never be heard from again... that doesn't mean they took ANYTHING from anyone. They gave is a great, relatively open system, with which we can pretty much do whatever we want at this point.

No, I get that. I've out of curiosity looked at what plugin packages look like, and browsed thru XML files -- all of that is great. It *IS* very open. And I sincerely thank all the 3rd party devs for all that they do. But what of when my extenders die, or when people can't legally license the core product? You have nothing but a steadily contracting user base.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by speck55

But what of when my extenders die, or when people can't legally license the core product? You have nothing but a steadily contracting user base.

You're right-the core product can never grow. But if the extenders die then get a Boxee Box and use the Sage Boxee app as your client. It needs more work but the basic playing of the recordings and seeing them listed in the Sage UI is there already.

Gerry

[speck55]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You're right-the core product can never grow. But if the extenders die then get a Boxee Box and use the Sage Boxee app as your client. It needs more work but the basic playing of the recordings and seeing them listed in the Sage UI is there already.

Gerry

And that work you guys have done is amazing RE: boxee. If there are areas you need help in, and they match my expertise (just please don't ask me to do themes or UI design - it'll look like a Commodore 64 =) . I'm more of a backend guy. If you said to me "we need code to do this, or keep track of this, or build a SQLite DB + code to keep something in sync -- now go forth and code and bring it back to us" or "we need this tested" -- I'd be willing to go buy a boxeebox and help out. I've never written a STV plugin personally, but know the underlying languages well enough to be given a task and come back with a well-coded implementation of whatever "piece" that's needed. (And this is only if you guys that are working on it need or could use the help -- I'm not trying to step on any toes).

What I'm getting at, is as great as the third party dev community is, and as much of their own unreimbursed time as they spend writing all these awesome plugins, if the user base shrinks far enough, eventually devs would give up as they aren't helping enough people. I'm sure there would be a few that stuck around till the bitter end, but eventually I fear this will wither away, and though I don't use this phrase very often at all, it would be a crying shame.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You're right-the core product can never grow. But if the extenders die then get a Boxee Box and use the Sage Boxee app as your client. It needs more work but the basic playing of the recordings and seeing them listed in the Sage UI is there already.

Gerry

Also, Gerry - do you foresee 1080p BD ISO support as possible given the Atom processor? (Or is there something like the Ion chipset to give it that extra "oomph" needed?)

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by speck55

How so? Alternate API? I'd be interested in helping develop in that case. But is this project to include LiveTV, SMM support, etc?

LiveTV is on the radar and is actually coded, but untested and certainly rough around the edges (at best). SMM - no. This is a boxee app and so does not support any Sage plugins. We're basically aiming to provide a way to access PVR functionality (playback recordings, live tv**, view EPG, scheduled recordings, view/edit favourites). All the bells and whistles are not on the radar and likely aren't even possible, such as SMM. SMM for Boxee would have to be integrated into the our Boxee app's codebase. Certainly not stopping anyone from trying, but the UI framework for Boxee is lacking, to say the least. I think basic PVR functionality on a small device is the best we can hope for (and personally, is all I'm aiming for from this project). Others may have bigger hopes and dreams so time will tell where this project ends up.

** Live tv is a tricky one and isn't a priority if the currently implementation does not work.