Community Comments on Google's Acquisition of SageTV

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Rob

But, I do not see much difference between those that are bitching and those that are bitching about the bitching. It is all just bitching and I'd like to see all the bitching put into two threads. One for bitching and one for bitching about bitching. Then I can unsubscribe from them and enjoy the rest of the forums.

There's a difference: my policy had been to leave all the posts as-is where they were posted (other than several topic merges), except for the ones going over the forum rules, such as the #1 rule to remain civil. It wasn't until the complaints about the constant complaints that we realized that those posts being all over the forum were running off people who wanted to discuss their use of SageTV -- get help, offer suggestions, etc. Now, all the discussion of the company purchase will be placed here so as not to derail other discussions. That solves the complaints (without actually censoring or deleting those staying within the forum rules) and the complaints about those complaints being posted all over. So the difference is: without the complaints about the complaints, we wouldn't have known that many forum members were irritated by the complaints.

- Andy

[cncb]

Might I suggest that the thread be renamed from "[Pointless Dribble]..." to "Community Complaints...". Talk about being disrespectful...

[jlmdxtv]

from respected members like Fuzzy, Panteragstk, Tmiranda, etc.

I'll still read it, but I'll skip over posts with mentions of: beer, loyal, Soogle, wronged, store, acquisition, etc.

Seriously though, even the complaints are helpful in keeping the discussions of workarounds / product longevity alive.

john

[Rob]

Originally Posted by Opus4

So the difference is: without the complaints about the complaints, we wouldn't have known that many forum members were irritated by the complaints.

Good point.

To me, people should be able to complain if they feel slighted, but I'm glad it won't be all over the forum.

Personally I don't understand the complaining about the complaining. I wish Jeff had not said what he said. I think he make a mistake. Let people vent and be glad that sage is a good enough product that people are passionate about it.

[jsonnabend]

Originally Posted by cncb

Might I suggest that the thread be renamed from "[Pointless Dribble]..." to "Community Complaints...". Talk about being disrespectful...

Jeffrey's feelings are clearly hurt. He's lashing out in pain, you see.

Oh, and to the grammarian who renamed the thread, it's "drivel".

[ranger]

Originally Posted by jsonnabend

Oh, and to the grammarian who renamed the thread, it's "drivel".

Thank You!!!

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by Rob

I guess you were referring to me, but if you will read my last few posts, I don't think I'm complaining about sage. It is what it is and I'm happy with my setup.

This will be my last visit to this thread, but I wanted to respond to this. No, actually, I wasn't referring specifically to you. I wasn't directing that towards anyone, in particular. It was directed toward multiple people across a number of threads on the forum.

I also kept pretty quiet about the complaining, but I did feel compelled to speak up after a while, simply because I saw others felt similarly turned off by it and were choosing--like me--to stop by less frequently.

And now, back to our regularly scheduled forum...

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by cncb

I consider no information for 2 months to loyal (paying) customers about the future of the product highly "disrespectful and rude". And if you still don't have the details worked out about what's going to happen with it well that's just sad and unbelievable...

We've gone more than 2 months before without any info about product development. It's happened several times during my time on the forums here (Have I REALLY been a member here for over 7 years?!?). We also should be used to not getting any info about new development, as it's been Sage's Modus operandi for years.

The only issue I have is it'd be nice if we could get at least a 'yes, we're still working on something that'll work with your existing software/hardware), or a 'no, SageTV as a product is at the end of it's product life cycle, we're moving on to something new/else now'.

As for me, I'm going to continue running Sage until either something new comes out of the merger that I like better, or I can figure a way to tweak 7MC into something close to what I have with Sage. All my hardware is 7MC compatible (well, of course except for my extenders, but I know what I can do with those), I would just need to work on re-encoding all my ripped movies from their existing formats (all my DVD's are straight VIDEO_TS rips, and my ripped bluray's are MKV's, neither of which are handled by 7MC well at the moment). I would need to convert a TON of movies over to something that it'll work with on the extenders I'd use (my X360's, I have several, lol)...

[gwgunter]

I check these forums and read on Sage every couple weeks just to... well keep informed. Many like me, have been around for years in sage. Love the product and don't mind that I easily have or $1000 tied up in this stuff. I haven't really been upset about all this but ... I don't really need anything from them right now. If I did I would be very upset. I always want another HD-300 for that special situation but can wait.

Because so many are upset, surely some attorney could find grounds for a class action lawsuit representing the "victims". I use that term loosely but you get the point.

And for anyone that cares... PLEASE DON'T TAKE MY sunshine (I mean SAGE) AWAY.

Respectfully.

[tostka]

I'm slow and behind the curve. Until today I completely missed all the hubbub.

I've used SageTV on a dedicated htpc since 2005. But generally ran a full version or more behind. Currently on v6, last updated last March and haven't even checked for updates since that time.

Fact is, I've enjoyed Sage as an alternative viewing platform. A backup for my HD TiVO and my primary platform for watching non-streamed content for shows I've missed or overseas. A great system for queuing up a dozen or so old horror or SF movies in a playlist and using them throughout the house as background entertainment for parties. No real music use, as my music library & streaming is via my Squeezebox.

I've wrestled a lot of initial hw & software incompatibility issues over the years, and eventually reached a point where "it just works" was fine. I wasn't seeking new features. That's part of the reason I've been inclined to avoid updates unless I had a specific problem to address.

But now it appears my htpc graphic's card has kicked the can, and I need to replace it, with something with features suited for coming years. So I came to the forums to check for ideas for a replacement. Instead I find out that SageTV itself likely has at most a nine to ten month lifespan, at least at the EPG level.

*wee*

I wasn't really looking to replace the whole thing. And any changes I make now I'd like to last for a number of years to come. I'm not fond of the prospect of doing a substantial retool in less than a year. Perhaps it is time to look into alternatives.

Oh well, back anew to the research process.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by tostka

I'm slow and behind the curve. Until today I completely missed all the hubbub.

I've used SageTV on a dedicated htpc since 2005. But generally ran a full version or more behind. Currently on v6, last updated last March and haven't even checked for updates since that time.

Fact is, I've enjoyed Sage as an alternative viewing platform. A backup for my HD TiVO and my primary platform for watching non-streamed content for shows I've missed or overseas. A great system for queuing up a dozen or so old horror or SF movies in a playlist and using them throughout the house as background entertainment for parties. No real music use, as my music library & streaming is via my Squeezebox.

I've wrestled a lot of initial hw & software incompatibility issues over the years, and eventually reached a point where "it just works" was fine. I wasn't seeking new features. That's part of the reason I've been inclined to avoid updates unless I had a specific problem to address.

But now it appears my htpc graphic's card has kicked the can, and I need to replace it, with something with features suited for coming years. So I came to the forums to check for ideas for a replacement. Instead I find out that SageTV itself likely has at most a nine to ten month lifespan, at least at the EPG level.

*wee*

I wasn't really looking to replace the whole thing. And any changes I make now I'd like to last for a number of years to come. I'm not fond of the prospect of doing a substantial retool in less than a year. Perhaps it is time to look into alternatives.

Oh well, back anew to the research process.

It's not as bleak as it looks. They haven't even said that EPG is going away. What they said is that it will be around for at least a year. There are already plugins that will bring in other sources, and it's really at most about 15-20 minutes to configure, one time. Other than that, everything else will continue as you have been using it for years.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

There are already plugins that will bring in other sources, and it's really at most about 15-20 minutes to configure, one time. Other than that, everything else will continue as you have been using it for years.

Actually, I'm kind of curious about this. What would be involved in moving to other EPG data? I was sort of expecting to have to completely re-do my channel lineups on all my video sources, which would take me a lot longer than 15-20 minutes. Would I somehow be able to keep my current lineups, and just change where the data itself is coming from?

[wayner]

All of the EPG data, including lineups, comes from Zap2it. You can also buy Zap2it though a service called Schedules Direct. I believe it is the exact data that Sage gets and is used by stuff like MythTV, etc - see http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Schedules_Direct It look like we might have to pay $20/yr.

[Fuzzy]

there is also XMLTV (via MC2XML, and the XMLTV Importer). XMLTV has been working in sage for everyone outside the US and Canada for many many years. MC2XML uses the same sources as WMC does, so it's pretty good data, and free. Again, there's some one-time setup time, and it gets easier if you use the paid version of the XMLTV importer.

[lucasbuck]

I'm glad there are workarounds for the EPG and plan on continuing to use Sage for a good long while. I like having MyMovies and Playon all bundled together thanks to everyone's hard work and plugins.
BUT, it did get me thinking. I've seen people talking about alternatives to Sage. My wife and I don't have kids, and only have our main TV that we use. No extenders. With that kind of setup, just the one TV, IF anything ever happened is there an easier (or as easy) way to do what I'm doing (TV recording, stored movies, etc.) than with Sage? With most alternatives people talked about there were a lot of discussion about extenders and such. Not an issue for me, so I figured there might be something easier.

[Fuzzy]

Media Center would probably be the best alternative if a single viewing location is where you're at. The only significant thing MCE doesn't do is the whole home thing.

[rrhorer]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Your expectation of future purchase capability was of your own creation.. and it turns out you were wrong.

Obviously, I'm late to this whole discussion and never really intended to join it. But ...

Fuzzy, I have followed your many posts with interest and, even now, hesitate to disagree with you about anything; but I do disagree with your future expectations logic. The Product overview in the SageTV Manual states that "with the addition of SageTV Client, you can extend the same functionality of SageTV to any PC on your network." It is stated as a current and ongoing product capability, not one that may disappear in the future. By accepting money for the product, SageTV (and its successor) should also have accepted the obligation to provide this capability. It is meaningless to add the qualifier "with the addition of SageTV Client" if the qualifier can never be satisfied. So, for any person unlucky enough to have purchased SageTV (the software) the day before Google bought SageTV (the company), that person did not get what they paid for. The same logic can be extended to others who, to some extent, have been left with stranded investment as a result of the acquisition. Indeed, it is not an expectation of future purchase capability (perhaps an extender falls in this category); it is an expectation that the product should deliver a crucially important feature as promised.

The right thing for Google to do is to loosen the SageTV Client license requirement either by continuing to sell it or by removing the requirement all together. And, how would it cost them anything unless they expect it to be competition with their next GooglTV offering? That's a joke of course.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by rrhorer

The Product overview in the SageTV Manual states that "with the addition of SageTV Client, you can extend the same functionality of SageTV to any PC on your network." It is stated as a current and ongoing product capability, not one that may disappear in the future.

And what if you decided to never purchase a Sage PC client? There is no obligation here. The statement still stands. "With the addition" means if you purchase it. If you don't, you don't get it. And now you can't purchase it so you don't get it either. I mean are they suppose to provide the capability of purchasing it forever? This is still America and if I decide to buy a business and shut the doors I can do that. No matter how many people I piss off. GM stopped making Pontiacs and Oldsmobiles. Are you going to insist they continue to make them? Don't get me wrong, I would like to purchase another extender or two. But Google doesn't HAVE to sell me one. It's their company now and they're going to do what they want with it. It's not a great situation but neither Sage nor Google is obligated to provide anything to me any more. It would be nice if they did but they don't have to. It's Google's business and it was their business decision to make. Like it or not. Just as I certainly wouldn't be telling you what you should doing with something you purchased.

Gerry

[rrhorer]

Thankfully, I'M not a lawyer: but I do work a lot with contracts, negotiations, etc. There is a difference in a company that fails and goes out of business and one that is acquired. For example, Say Toyota decides to acquire GM (why, I don't know). Do all of the mainenance warranties/obligations just disappear? I think not.

[darcilicious]

Do all of the mainenance warranties/obligations just disappear? I think not.

Right. I believe support and warranties are still in place.

But neither of those have anything to do with the "right to purchase" product forever.