null pointer exception on start

[geekraver]

I'm about to (for the second time) trash Sage and go back to using MythTV. I did this during the 2.0 beta but thought I'd give 2.0 final a try, seeing as Frey wouldn't refund my money or allow me to resell my license.

My wife hates the Sage UI (and I don't blame her; it's pretty bad), so I haven't managed to get rid of my TiVo, as planned. I only switch to Sage every few days, just to see that it is still working. Usually it isn't; it has locked up, and the only way to get out of this is to power cycle the machine (an Asus Pundit with Hauppauge 250). And now it won't even start up; it just reports a Java null pointer exception each time.

This is really poor software.

[kny3twalker]

wow I have no problems
do you have multiple copies of java installed
are you running the most current drivers for the pvr 250
have you tried using any of the help in the FAQs
like how to delete and fresh install

Sage never crashes for me
unless I am messing with ffdshow or something that I do not normally do
something that most applications would respond in the same way
but with everyday use no problems

I cannot beleive you find mythTV easier to work with

also there updated sage UIs in the customization section from mlbdude and malore

what would you like in a UI
if the suggestions are worth while they tend to intergrate them in some way

also studio should not be far off and you cn use someone elses or your own

if you like the TiVo look I know there is a person with it ready for studio

can you explain your problems better or is that the only one

and what do you hate about the UI

for windows based it looks better than beyondTV and media center

never messed with mythTV but what makes it look better?

[geekraver]

I don't have multiple copies of Java. This is a dedicated box, with a clean install of WinXP Pro and Sage TV, and nothing else. And it certainly isn't crashing because I do something weird - it crashes at times when I'm not doing anything!

Because I hardly use it, its hard for me to be specific about the things in the UI I don't like (and now I can't fire it up to check) - but here are a few that come to mind:

- it records programs that I have no interest in. I don't know why, I believe I have it configured to not record anything I don't explicitly request, but it does - and they seem arbitrary - and it mixes these in with the ones I do want. I only watch a few shows (about 7 between my wife and I) and they get lost in all this junk. TiVo does this too, but it always puts them right at the end of the list where I never see them anyway

- on the few times I have switched over to Sage, it has been showing something random (whether hung or not); I didn't have it left on live TV, so why was it not still on the main menu?

- the back button on the Hauppage remote does not work consistently - I find it seems to toggle between screens, instead of behaving like an "up" through a hierarchy, and that I have to press the Menu button to get the main menu. On my TiVo everything is a clean hierarchy that I can navigate through using just the arrow buttons and OK/Select.

- playing a ripped CD seemed a real drag without adding it to a playlist first.

There are loads of another little annoyances. My wife is not a techie and she just found it unusable compared to TiVo (she may feel the same about Myth but I think I have a better chance).

I tried the mldude (IIRC) skin and it was an improvement but still a long way off the clean simplicity of TiVo. Myth TV is still not TiVo, but it is certainly better than Sage, and it has some nice extras (the weather module is great). It now uses zap2it for listings too. And you can't argue with the price. KnoppMyth makes the installation a real breeze too. The only thing that has kept me using Sage is I suffer from the "Concorde fallacy" (due to my upbringing, I think), where, because I paid money for Sage but not for Myth, I feel compelled to use Sage so that I don't feel like I wasted my money, even though it is inferior. But for $60 I should just get over it. I'm downloading the latest KnoppMyth CD image now.

[kny3twalker]

if sage is recording things you do not want then disable Intelligent recordings
mine only records what I want
I know the issue with the back button maybe you can send this to support so at least it can fixed

why do you not sleep sage when you are not using it?
you can bring up the screensaver to you will not have tosee windows desktop while sage sleeps
thats true I never leave it just at the main menu
I sleep sage when not using

ALSO the music player is an annoyance to everyone
hopefully this will be corrected and they will add FM radio capability

I have never used myth like I said but from what I read it does not seem easy

You can probably sell your lisence but it probably would not be easy in the forum (frey will get mad) and the person that wants it would have to buy it and has to use your name when registering it

I remember the issue of them not wanting people to sell their product but thats hard to enforce

[geekraver]

Well, that's part of the badness - why should I have to put it to sleep to stop it from crashing (assuming that that would even stop it?) I certainly never have to put my TiVo to sleep; it is always recording live TV.

As I said, I had "intelligent [sic] recording" disabled.

I managed to get past the null pointer exception by deleting the .wiz file, but lost all of my favorite settings and had to recreate them. Also, all my previous recordings now ended up under the video library, instead of under Sage recordings. And when adding the favorites back in, the list on the right hand side of matching "programs" included all of the music CD titles in my media library! That's just dumb.

Perhaps they should change the version number from 2.0 to 0.2.

[mdmint]

Originally posted by geekraver
I'm about to (for the second time) trash Sage and go back to using MythTV. I did this during the 2.0 beta but thought I'd give 2.0 final a try, seeing as Frey wouldn't refund my money or allow me to resell my license.

My wife hates the Sage UI (and I don't blame her; it's pretty bad), so I haven't managed to get rid of my TiVo, as planned. I only switch to Sage every few days, just to see that it is still working. Usually it isn't; it has locked up, and the only way to get out of this is to power cycle the machine (an Asus Pundit with Hauppauge 250). And now it won't even start up; it just reports a Java null pointer exception each time.

This is really poor software.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Not so sure it's "really poor software" causing your problems. My SageTV Server running current release v2 with 4xPVR250s plus a 5th in HTPC Client network mode recording all kinds of stuff all the time up 24x7 has never crashed or locked up. Maybe it's not really poor software but really poor something else...

[insomniac]

i didnt read the entire post..nm

[geekraver]

Perhaps it's because you're actually using it that your's stays up - mine on the other hand is being left alone for typically 2-4 weeks at a time before I switch to it, as we're still using our TiVo for everything - and then it's frozen. Now that I think of it, I think it's been frozen in every case, about five times in all.

On the one hand you could argue that that is a sufficiently unusual usage pattern that it is not a big deal. However, this can happen to anyone, e.g. if you go on vacation. In fact that was the first time it happened to me - I went to New Zealand for 3 weeks, came back and my TiVo had behaved perfectly (and with TiVoweb I had connected back from New Zealand on one occasion to set up a new favorite); the Sage box was useless.

[mdmint]

Originally posted by geekraver
Perhaps it's because you're actually using it that your's stays up - mine on the other hand is being left alone for typically 2-4 weeks at a time before I switch to it, as we're still using our TiVo for everything - and then it's frozen. Now that I think of it, I think it's been frozen in every case, about five times in all.

On the one hand you could argue that that is a sufficiently unusual usage pattern that it is not a big deal. However, this can happen to anyone, e.g. if you go on vacation. In fact that was the first time it happened to me - I went to New Zealand for 3 weeks, came back and my TiVo had behaved perfectly (and with TiVoweb I had connected back from New Zealand on one occasion to set up a new favorite); the Sage box was useless.

Don't have a clue who's post you where referring to, you didn't quote it. My Server sits and goes untouched just busily recording away as programmed, don't even bother to check it for days on end (on a KVM with my main workstation, not my HTPC) My Client I use for viewing daily yes, my 4tuner 1.5 Terrabyte RAID5 with hotspare storage and dual hotswap power supply SageTV workhorse no. Try THAT with TIVO! No ones forcing you to use SageTV, if TIVO in it's infinite limitations and with it's storage always at risk of immediate loss pleases you by all means use it.

If you really want to make SageTv work fine, ask questions and give specific details on your hardware and software configuration. If you just want to vent and bad mouth SageTV and sing the praises of TIVO that's fine by me too. I've done my comparisons, talked to TIVO tech support searching for solutions to obvious limitations and very weak high risk points, and chose SageTV. As for me, Sage beats TIVO without batting an eye. Oh, and there are ways of accessing SageTV Server remotely if someone wants to and has the know how. Not built into SageTV directly no, but built into Win and internet functionality.

To each their own, and YMMV.

[geekraver]

Originally posted by mdmint
Don't have a clue who's post you where referring to, you didn't quote it. My Server sits and goes untouched just busily recording away as programmed, don't even bother to check it for days on end (on a KVM with my main workstation, not my HTPC) My Client I use for viewing daily yes, my 4tuner 1.5 Terrabyte RAID5 with hotspare storage and dual hotswap power supply SageTV workhorse no. Try THAT with TIVO! No ones forcing you to use SageTV, if TIVO in it's infinite limitations and with it's storage always at risk of immediate loss pleases you by all means use it.

If you really want to make SageTv work fine, ask questions and give specific details on your hardware and software configuration. If you just want to vent and bad mouth SageTV and sing the praises of TIVO that's fine by me too. I've done my comparisons, talked to TIVO tech support searching for solutions to obvious limitations and very weak high risk points, and chose SageTV. As for me, Sage beats TIVO without batting an eye. Oh, and there are ways of accessing SageTV Server remotely if someone wants to and has the know how. Not built into SageTV directly no, but built into Win and internet functionality.

To each their own, and YMMV.

My TiVo has 240Gb, which given I watch about 5 shows is more than enough for many months of storage. In nearly three years I've never lost anything on it, and it has never hung on me.

I gave all the specifics that matter - stock standard Asus Pundit (P4 2.4GHz, 512Mb RAM), with Hauppauge Win PVR 250, running Win XP Pro. That's all there is to it. The drivers are the ones from Asus' site. The box is dedicated to PVR use; it runs no other apps.

As for connecting remotely, I'm not an idiot, I know about RDP. I'm a systems programmer with 25 years experience in both UNIX and Windows worlds. However, I'm much happier tunneling HTTPS through my firewall to TiVoweb (I have an Apache server running anyway so it just proxies to the TiVo on certain URLs) than I would be opening up PPTP. It's also a heck of a lesser strain on bandwidth, which was an issue when connecting from a dial-up connection in New Zealand.

In any event I don't want TiVo, I want a TiVo replacement, that is as usable (for my wife) and more functional (for me). I'm sick of paying TiVo $12 a month for an EPG. That's why I bought Sage, but in my experience it is unusable. Call it badmouthing if you will, but if your experience was like mine you'd be bitching too. What is the point of a PVR that keeps locking up? So its back to Myth TV for me; at least if it locks up I can break into it with a debugger instead of having to power cycle.

[kny3twalker]

man leave sage run for a few weeks but put it to sleep when not using it
why is that a big deal ?
if it crashes during that time then say you hate sage or whatever

[mdmint]

Originally posted by geekraver
I gave all the specifics that matter - stock standard Asus Pundit (P4 2.4GHz, 512Mb RAM), with Hauppauge Win PVR 250, running Win XP Pro. That's all there is to it. The drivers are the ones from Asus' site. The box is dedicated to PVR use; it runs no other apps.

You already gave specific config info'? Funny, your first post only said

Originally posted by geekraver
...and the only way to get out of this is to power cycle the machine (an Asus Pundit with Hauppauge 250).

Not very specific to me. I scanned the entire thread and found no other config info'.

Reality check, you're a systems programmer with 25yrs Unix and Windows experience and not an idiot...so why then when so many others have stable working SageTV systems do you not? I mean, you know what is pertitent information to give and what is not. No trouble shooting necessary. Don't really ask for help. Impossible it could be a hardware problem. As you say, SageTV doesn't work for you so and I quote "This is really poor software."

TIVO does have a huge advantage over SageTV. They pick their hardware, software and drivers. Find the ones that work and end of story. And the end user gets what they get. And pay and pay for programming. They don't have to make it work with every motherboard made on earth. In reality very little if any software is 100% compatible with 100% of so called compatible hardware. Fact of the computer world.

If you realy want SageTV to work without any hassle figuring out problems on your part, choose a known hardware configuration that others are using without problems and use it. Or buy a pre-built HTPC SageTV solution, they are for sale out there.

I must be bored....

[geekraver]

Originally posted by mdmint
You already gave specific config info'? Funny, your first post only said Not very specific to me. I scanned the entire thread and found no other config info'.

It's a stock standard Asus Pundit config (P4 2.4GHz is what the Pundit is rated for). The Pundit has on board SIS video. So its the Pundit box, CPU, RAM, Hauppauge card, WinXP and PVR-250. Anyone with a brain (and not just too much money to spend on gear) could extrapolate from my initial description.

Given the stock standard hardware, and the fact I'm paying good money for the software, it shouldn't be expecting that much to have it just work (especially using one of the limited set of MPEG cards supported by Sage). Using MythTV I know that I'm going to spend a couple of nights of tweaking, building accelerated video drivers, messing with X config files and the like - that comes with the territory, and the price (free). I don't expect to have to do that with commercial PVR software under Windows - especiialy when Windows has PVR functionality built into the OS, in the form of the DirectShow APIs.

[kny3twalker]

especially using one of the limited set of MPEG cards supported by Sage

actually Sage supports any TV tuner card that has a hardware encoder

TiVo has them

otherwise you would need a really strong computer to do all this
people have sage running on old pentium 2 and 3

maybe you should also consider something like this

using an old computer as the sage server and use the Asus as the client


just another idea

[justme]

Anyone with a brain (and not just too much money to spend on gear) could extrapolate from my initial description.

This is a user supported forum. These people(me included) do this to try and help others, we aren't paid. We often don't have the time to go out and track down the specific hardware capabilities/default setups from different vendors. Also could you please be more polite in your posts. The same could be said for some other posts in this thread, but I understand how things can spiral.

So having said that, how about everyone drop any previous emotions and work on the issues.

/justme

[mdmint]

Originally posted by justme
So having said that, how about everyone drop any previous emotions and work on the issues.

/justme

You are right, level headed moderator that you are. I apologize to the forum for my part for getting personal. Yes, I found some of the opening post remarks offensive about UI pretty bad and Sage really bad software etc. (should be v0.2 not 2.0 was almost humorous except in the light it was posted) I should have just let them go. My bad.

[geekraver]

My initial post was at a pretty frustrated time - each time I flipped over to Sage (admittedly rarely) things were hosed, and at the time I posted I couldn't even do a restart. When I did it was by trashing all my settings and having to restart; not fun. As for the comments about the UI; I stand by them; Frey should release Studio sop that people can fix this. I think everyone has a favorite UI - in most cases whatever you got used to first - and for my wife (who plays a critical role in my attempts to free myself of TiVo's subscription fees) this is TiVo. It's clean and simple. Sage has too much going on; if you're like her and not a geek at all less is definitely more.

Things did get heated, because no-one was helpful (responses ranged from the "gee it works for me" to the "if you don't like it go back to TiVo" ilk). So this just became an argument instead of being considered a legitimate frustration.

Anyway, for now at least, I'm back to Myth TV. Maybe when Studio is released, and there are TiVo like front ends to Sage, and if Myth is for some reason not working out, I'll install Sage again. But for now I'm happy; just need to get the Dilbert viewer module working...

[justme]

No problem. As for Studio, did you read Dan's most recent comments here. It at least explains Frey's reason for holding off on Studio, and is from Frey's official voice. If you are still interested in using your SageTV license(for a Tivo skin), I'd check the Customization forum every now and then for news. Just remember to try and ignore the posts that aren't helpfull, and try the advice that is. Also keep in mind your first post often sets a tone that will carry thru out the thread. In the meantime, I'm glad Myth is working out for you. Good luck with dilbert.

/justme