If Sage needed to charge a small monthly EPG fee, would you pay it.

[mdmint]

Moderator's note: This poll was started by a SageTV user. It was not started by Frey Technologies as a way to judge how users would react to such a change. Frey Technologies is not currently considering charging a monthly fee. Since this discussion seems to serve no purpose other than to confuse new users, it is being closed.

Again: Frey has not indicated any plans to change to a monthly fee. Please see the last post in this thread for more info.

Original post's contents:

Strange as it may sound one of my concerns with SageTV is NOT having an EPG fee. Concerns for the future. It costs money to stay in business and what Frey charges for SageTV and Client is peanuts IMO, in a long term perspective.

Poll is per SageTV license, not tuner, not Clients, just the single SageTV.

[zz5]

Tivo really doesn't have an EPG fee either. Their "EPG fee" just allows them to sell you the Tivo hardware cheaper, so that your initial investment is lower. That monthly fee is really paying for your hardware. The EPG data is very cheap for zap2it to provide. It doesn't really cost $12.95 a month.

[falchulk]

Not true. Licensing fees for the guide data is expensive.

[carlgar]

I am not sure but I believe a charge for the EPG data was part of the original plan for SageTV. I try to avoid any product with a monthly charge. One of my biggest concerns is the usefulness of SageTV with no EPG data, if it was not available for whatever reason. At least now have SageRecoder as a fall back position. While the EPG is a nice freebie for me the primary value of SageTV is multiple tuners.

[falchulk]

Without a guide sage would say bye bye from my HD. I used Showshifter for a long time before switching to sage only AFTER they stopped charging. XMLTV is too much of a pain and web based recorders that use titantv suck. An intergrated guide (such as what sage and BTV use) is the only reason I use a PVR. If it went away today, I would just stop using the PC to record. I would not switch to tivo, I would just stop all together. Honestly, I spend more time fooling around with the system then watching what I record anyway. Take away that fun factor and I can live with out TV.

[MrManson]

I would crawl over broken glass for the opportunity to pay for UK listings...

[nicktripp]

I most certainly would not pay for guide data. Like falchulk, I'd just stop messing with PVR stuff completely. When I started building a box for Sage, my entire goal was to build a completely functional PVR as cheaply as possible. Considering that goal, do you really think I'd pay a monthly fee? Nope. Not going to happen.

[mdmint]

Originally posted by nicktripp
I most certainly would not pay for guide data. Like falchulk, I'd just stop messing with PVR stuff completely. When I started building a box for Sage, my entire goal was to build a completely functional PVR as cheaply as possible. Considering that goal, do you really think I'd pay a monthly fee? Nope. Not going to happen.

Fascinating. As with many things, the same tool can be used for different reasons. You built your PVR with the primary goal of as cheaply as possible. I built mine with an entirely different goal, to be as functional, flexible, expandable and reliable as possible. Neither approach right or wrong, just different reasons for building a SageTV system.

[mbrown3]

But, as it is, we can get both and all be happy. Let's hope no one goes changing things on us!

[zz5]

Originally posted by falchulk
Not true. Licensing fees for the guide data is expensive.

Yes, it's true. How do you think they can sell a Tivo for $200? The actual incremental cost of the listings to zap2it is very low. You know, they do give the data away free on the web.

[DFranch]

One of the reasons I got Sage was to stop paying TiVo a monthly fee. $13 a month for listings is ridiculous. I also wanted multiple tuners.

If Frey started charging I would be more upset about the fact that they changed a long standing policy than I would about the actual fee. The fee would have to be small as well. like $1.95 a month. That seems to be a realistic charge for data, and it would not break the bank.

[falchulk]

Originally posted by zz5
Yes, it's true. How do you think they can sell a Tivo for $200? The actual incremental cost of the listings to zap2it is very low. You know, they do give the data away free on the web.

Well, not exactly free. They sell advertising. If you dont visit their site you dont see it. Advertisers dont buy space for what people are not looking at. Honestly, unless something has drastically changed, its quite expensive. The makers of showshifter posted what the price would be if they provided US listings. They could not do it for that reason.

[mlbdude]

DigiGuide had to stop supporting US customers because the guide data was too expensive.

I know for a fact that Frey is paying buko $$$ to use the data in a commercial product.

[zz5]

I used to use DigiGuide. I still use it with xmltv. It costed about $10 a year. So I doubt they are being charged over that per year. I now use DigiGuide with xmltv. zap2it gives the listings away with no ads for answering a small questionaire every three months. So it doesn't cost very much.

The listings would not really cost $12.95 a month. As I said, it's defrays the hardware cost. When I bought SageTV, it costs $69.99. Let's assume half that money goes directly to zap2it. That means a lifetime supply of listings costs $35.00. TIVO charges $299 for a lifetime subscription. How did the two-man company Frey get such a good price, when giant monster company TIVO couldn't? Jeff and Dan must be hell of negotiators.

[falchulk]

zz5, Digiguide charges that price becasue it has a large user base. I am sure that when negotiating the contracts are based on the amount of users. Dont kid yourself. This guide data is a big buisness. If it was not, dont you think there would be a lot more products like BTV and Sagetv? Think about all of the millions of programmers inthe world........but just 2 programs that provide he guide??

And when Mlbdue says he knows, HE KNOWS! Read some and you will see he has all sorts of inside info.

[zz5]

falchuk, this issue isn't open to debate. I just mentioned what I mentioned in my first post to inform people who may wonder why TIVO charges a rather large $12.95 a month when other companies don't. Whenever you're paying that kind of money, you're paying for hardware. No software only solution charges $300. How if Frey making money if they charge $70 for software and have to pay zap2it $300??? As I said, the real cost is in the $30-$40 range.

[kny3twalker]

I could do the 1.95 thing but would not be happy even with that
I saw sage in version 1.3 or 1.2 wahtever it was and saw you had to pay for the guide data
and thought forget it

trialed it in 1.4 when I saw the fee was gone

zz5 I agree with you !(on the hardware cost)

falchulk
on your original point I agree with you !

but a dollar may not be unreasonable yet still it better be not called sageTV
anymore

more like ultimate Sage
or something and be an upgrade

[falchulk]

The hardware cost is crap. The big cost is in the development of the hardware. They have recouped that now. 40 and 80 gig drives cost nothing for us, why would you think they were expesive for a MFG? Think what you want.........

[mbrown3]

If we're still talking about TiVo, they also have to pay for modems, pc boards, cases, fans, power supplies, etc, etc, etc. The cost of these goes into all of the above, but my guess is that the hardware cost (and the software development for the programs) likely outweigh the cost of the EPG data.

[insomniac]

One of the major considerations for switching to sage was that it has free guide date. It was packaged and sold into its product. I have no interrest in paying for something twice, and would surely switch products at the moment that happened.

On a footnote, If they did need to do something like that, I would think that it would be smart business to move forward with it and not retro on the people that helped make this product great by their monotary contributions and troubleshooting expertise during its infancy.

I.