Sound Issues with HD PVR2

[gandalf]

I have just invested in a new STB in order to resolve some of the new channels that Shaw is supplying in MPEG4 - along with a Hauppauge HDPVR2.

The PVR2 will work with the supplied Arcsoft application to record video - so the hardware is functioning (connected by Component Video and RCA Audio).

However when I set up the device with SageTVthe first odd thing is that the offered name is "Hauppauge Siena Video Capture Component+SPDIF". And the second is that the recordings contain no sound.

Now I am figuring that the reference to SPDIF suggests that the SagwTV configuration is, for some reason, expecting optical sound rather than baseband RCA as I have connected.

I have no objections to using SPDIF, indeed it may be a better option - so I will pick up an optical cable and try adding it to see what happens.

However I would like to understand what set up this configuration - and nothing in the supplied documentation helps. So I am hoping someone watching may have a better understanding of this device than I do.

What configuration sets that PVR2 into the mode that SageTV uses?

[dravenone]

Have you seen this post?

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58983

[gandalf]

I had not seen that thread - however now I have read it and applied the registry fix (and have rebooted serveral times since). Thanks for the info.

The problem is now no longer "no sound" but "occasional no sound" - which is equally irritating because I never know if a recorded show is going to be soundless or not

I have tried using HDMI - but that does not work from the cable box (didn't expect it would but worth a try).

I have tried both optical and RCA sound connected to the PVR2 - individually and both together. Sage only offers me Component+Optical (or HDMI or composite).

Oddly I can go to configure the source in SageTV and then select channels and use Preview - which sometimes gives me audio and sometimes not.

I have no way of testing the cable box componet+optical output other than the HDPVR. I took a "silent" preview and moved the output cabes to the TV (using RCA sound) and it was fine. There is certainy energy coming out of the optical port - but can't tell, of course, whether that is just the normal no-signal idle or whether there is useful information being sent. According to the Motorola literature for the cable box it should supply RCA audio, Optical SPDIF and HDMI audio as well as component video, composite and HDMI - just dropping the lower res video outputs when the program material is above what they can handle - which all sounds reasonable.

The unknown is the HDPVR2 and what tells it to use the optical input for sound at all times. I don't mind using RCA sound - but Sage does not seem to want to offer that option.

What am I missing?

[gandalf]

I still have this annoting issue that some recordings done via the HD PVR2 have no sound.

However a recent need to copy some of the raw SageTV data files revealed a new twist to the problem that suggests it may not be with the HD PVR2 at all but with SageTV itself.

The HD PVR2 produces a .ts file. MediaInfo shows that the file container is an MPEG-TS format containing AVC (H264) video and AC-3 audio. SageTV sees the same video information but does not "see" the audio.

The file works perfectly well and can be played using VLC media player with sound.

However attempts to pay the same recording via the SageTV system fail to reproduce audio. Placeshifter has (known) issues with H264 and just hangs when requested to play such a program - but the media player I normally use has never shown issues with H264 or MP4 coded files before. Since I added the HD PVR2 it has become picky what sound it will play.

I have identified two sample recordings - both made by the HD PVR2. Both carry 384Kbps 48kHz 16 bit 6 channel AC-3 audio. One carries MPEG2 video and the other AVC/H264 video. Both play fine with VLC. SageTV will play the MPEG one with sound but does not "see" the sound on the AVC/H264 recording (under View/Recording Detail).

I have other H264 recordings (made with SageTV's transcoder conversion option from MPEG2 originals) that play perfectly well. The only difference I can see is that the container is MKV Matroska and not MPEG-TS.

So - the conclusion is that my SageTV cannot find sound in an MPEG-TS file recorded with AVC/H264 video but can if the video is MPEG2. It is happy with either format in an MKV file.

Ideas?

**** additional testing ****

I have tried several sources and formats over the morning. In each case, when faced with an MPEG-TS container format, SageTV has problems demuxing the streams. It is OK if the video stream is MPEG2 (as in most cable stations from Shaw) but, when the video stream is H264, Sage stops with the video stream and ignores the audio completely. The audio stream is definitely there because other players (eg VLC) can play it perfectly well. This also shows that the computers have suitable codecs. Also, since the media player can play the same container / audio stream if the video is MPEG2 then the media player must also have a suitable audio codec. The combination that fails is always MPEG-TS file container with H264 video. Given the same streams in a Matroska container (MKV file) then the media player has no problem - bringing me back to the problem being with the ability of the SageTV/media player to demux MPEG2-TS with H264 video.

Hope that helps someone with a bit more knowledge of SageTV internals to suggest what the problem might be.

[MattHelm]

Anyone try running the file thru video redo to see if that fixes the audio issue? (Just asking)

(Or handbrake, or other software?)

[gandalf]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

Anyone try running the file thru video redo to see if that fixes the audio issue? (Just asking)

(Or handbrake, or other software?)

The audio issue is not with the file. I can play the file with VLC or Windows Media Player and there is audio. I can convert is using a variety of software without problem. [Incidentally I cannot "Convert" the file using SageTV - it just hangs]

The issue is with SageTV playing the program using its GUI via the media player that I use for watching SageTV recordings. That system, which has worked fine in the MPEG2 world for years, now has problems with the new MP4 channels. These are the ones that I record via the new Motorola cable box and an HD PVR2. The HD PVR2 produces an MPEG2 output from an SD video source and an H264 output from an HD source (I think it may be configurable to produce H264 from all sources, but MPEG2 from all sources is not an option). It is the only SageTV tuner that I have which can produce H264 - and that is where the problems arise.

My other tuners are a PCI SD analog tuner and a pair of R5000 modified cable boxes that pass through the raw MPEG2. None of these can cope with the newer MP4 channels on Shaw cable - hence the addition of the new STB and the HD PVR2 (connected by component video and optical audio).

SageTV can convert (transcode) recordings into H264 format to save space and it has no difficulty playing these conversions - but they are MKV format files. The HD PVR2 produces MPEG-TS files (just like the R5000 tuners do, but those R5000 files just envelope the MPEG2 video - which SageTV is happy with).

So - back to the problem. I cannot get SageTV to play (on a media player box) an MPEG-TS recording with H264 video. It plays with no sound. the SageTV setup will play MPEG-TS recordings with MPEG2 video and sound is fine. The file itself has sound and plays OK with other programs.

What is wrong with SageTV? Could I have a configuration error or something? Where do I look?

[gandalf]

Just a thought leading on from MattHelm's suggestion.

Is it possible to externally convert a file and then return it to the SageTV folder in such a way that Sage sees it as a valid TV recording - much the same as getting Sage to do the transcode conversion?

The actual conversion is not a problem - I do that a lot to export files to an Android device. The issue is putting the converted file back so that Sage will find it.

[davenlr]

Have your tried reconfiguring your mpeg4 decoder to something different than is currently selected in Detailed Setup/Audio and Video? I set mine to use the Arcsoft filters and decoders, and it works just fine.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by gandalf

Just a thought leading on from MattHelm's suggestion.

Is it possible to externally convert a file and then return it to the SageTV folder in such a way that Sage sees it as a valid TV recording - much the same as getting Sage to do the transcode conversion?

The actual conversion is not a problem - I do that a lot to export files to an Android device. The issue is putting the converted file back so that Sage will find it.

If you give the converted file the same name (excluding extension) and use Touch to make the date the same as the original recording it will work. I would suggest putting it into an import directory that sage currently isn't scanning (I turn off the auto scan). Then move the original recording out of the recording directory and initiate a imported file scan. If everything works like it should your converted recording will now be a recording. Now delete the original recording and your done. Except for the conversion step I do essentially that when I move my recordings to my NAS.

[gandalf]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

If you give the converted file the same name (excluding extension) and use Touch to make the date the same as the original recording it will work.

"Touch"? Is that a technique or a program? Not something I am familiar with.

[gandalf]

Originally Posted by davenlr

Have your tried reconfiguring your mpeg4 decoder to something different than is currently selected in Detailed Setup/Audio and Video? I set mine to use the Arcsoft filters and decoders, and it works just fine.

I checked on the media player and Audio & Video is not an option in Detailed Setup.

I checked on the server and it is an option there - currently set to ArcSoft Video Decoder.

Not sure why the option is not available on the Sage Media Extender box setup - surely the file demux / decode is done in the box not back on the server.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by gandalf

"Touch"? Is that a technique or a program? Not something I am familiar with.

Touch is the name of a unix utility command that has been ported to the Windows platform with many different versions. You can also do it with SJQ and code everything including the conversion step. Slugger explains how to code it in Grovvy here. The command line windows utility I use is from this post.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by gandalf

I checked on the media player and Audio & Video is not an option in Detailed Setup.

I checked on the server and it is an option there - currently set to ArcSoft Video Decoder.

Not sure why the option is not available on the Sage Media Extender box setup - surely the file demux / decode is done in the box not back on the server.

No - the extenders have hardware-based decoders, so there are no settings. In theory, that's what makes them works so well - you don't have to play around trying to find the right combination of codec, demuxer, video card driver, renderer, ... The down-side is they usually aren't software-upgradeable if some new format comes out.

It's still possible that there is some minor corruption in the files you are dealing with. It's possible that VLC is able to "figure it out" and just ignore the corruption better than your extender. Using a tool like Quickstream fix might uncover such a problem and it might be able to repair the corruption so that the extender doesn't choke.

[MattHelm]

Like Tiki said, VLC is made to play ANYTHING, including badly formatted file. It should only be used to see if all the data is there, not that the data is made correctly.

For example, all MKVs Handbrake files made before .94 (not sure what version???) were incorrectly made MKVs, but VLC (and almost all other programs) could play them, but that didn't make them "correct".

[phelme]

I use an HD-PVR 2 with a DirecTV receiver as the source which works OK. Your issue probably has something to do with how you have the ArcSoft ShowBiz capture software setup on your server. Or what you have selected on the Moto box for audio output.

When you look at one of your problem recordings with Detailed Info under SageTV, what does it say the encoding on the file is? It will be towards the end of the screen. Or you can look at it under VLC: select the Media Info menu item and look at the Codec Details tab. You should see something like H264 - MPEG - 4 - AVC stream for video and AAC mp4a for 2 channel audio or A52/AC3 when there was a DD 5.1 source if you're using optical. What does it say?

And if you can play it back with Windows Media Player, you should be able to get it to playback under the SageTV server client GUI as well using Directshow.

[vipul19]

I have the same issue, but with only certain recordings. For example, Big Brother, which I think is dolby digital 5.1. Anyway, when I play it through the hd200 sage interface, there is no sound. If I boot up the the hd200 and stop the autoconnect, browse to the file and play (ie. not through the sage gui), it works.....

Also, when I play the file from the sage server it does have sound.....

Anyway, don't know what to do

[vipul19]

After reading Phelme's post, I looked at the arcsoft showbiz thing. Here is what I can tell:

1. i am recording using component and optical/spdif in sage video source setup
2. Arcsoft capture tab showed hdmi for video and audio

When I change arcsoft video capture to hdmi, there is no option for audio capture as optical/spdif. Only hdmi and rca

Lots of options on arcsoft device settings....havent touched them

[vipul19]

I meant when I change the arcsoft video capture to component, I don't have optical audio option, but I did find that the there are 2 hdmi choices under audio capture. The second one produces sound on the arcsoft recording that is showing.....I think with this second hdmi choice for audio it will work.

Ill let you know after i record another episode of Big Brother.

[gandalf]

This is so frustrasting because I have yet to find a predictable pattern that would help diagnose what is going wrong.

Here is some more detail - which goes along with what others are saying, so it is good that I am not alone.

I have a Motorola STB that generates component video and audio, optical audio and HDMI. As far as I can tell from its setup it generates them all - so it should not be affecting things at all - more to confirm that later. The STB does generate 1080i output from all sources - even SD. That is configurable but I don't think it is the cause of the issue.

The TV is connected to the STB HDMI port and I have a USB UIRT doing channel changing because I got nowhere trying to make the included IR dongle work. That all functions fine. SageTV can channel change as needed and the STB will respond correctly.

If I switch the TV to the component and RCA audio jacks the output is also fine - which seems to confirm that the STB is not the problem. I have connected RCA audio to the PVR2 just to be sure that the PVR2 will hear audio even if listening on the wrong input.

Now - SageTV only allows for selection of optical sound or HDMI. It has no option to choose RCA audio. ArcSoft is the reverse - no option for optical. However, as noted by another contributor, it does have two HDMI options - perhaps one of those should read Optical.

I am not clear what tells the HD PVR2 how to behave. Is it set up by ArcSoft and remembered - or does SageTV have any control over the settings? The fact that the setup configuration for the source in SageTV includes configuration choices suggests SageTV has some role to play - though that does not mean that the role played has any effect on the HD PVR2.

So that is the setup. I ran ArcSoft (had to reboot the system to get SageTV to release the PVR2) and ArcSoft records just fine on all channels. However that is not telling us anything because SageTV records fine as well - it just has difficulty playing back what it recorded.

Back to the recordings. Yes - you are correct, the MPEG-TS recording is not to standard in many cases. The recordings will almost always play back with VLC - but the ones Sage plays without audio also do the same in Media Player. MediaInfo shows the raw recordings are 1080i AVC (Component) (High@L4.0)(CABAC/3 Ref Frames) and audio is 384Kbps 48.0KHz, 16 bits, 6 channels, AC-3.

I ran the recording through AVS Video Convertor, which I use to transcode files for other devices, and the video converted fine but the audio was ignored - suggesting again that the TS file is not formatted correctly. I ran the file through a TS cleanup utility that normally fixes problems. It appeared to do its job but the output again contained no audio.

So it seems that the HD PVR2, when it is in the wrong mood, produces a non-standard TS file - which will only play audio with tolerant players like VLC. I have no idea what settings (I am, as far as I know, using "default" settings) could be causing this.

I seem to have the option of telling the HD PVR2 to record MP4 files (which I don't think SageTV will handle) or TS-MPEG2 files (which I assume means using MPEG2 video rather than H264 video). That, though rather less space efficient, should be OK for SageTV. Unless anyone has a better idea that will be my next step.

What is even more frustrating is that sometimes the PVR2 will provide no audio at all - even replaying via VLC. It was in that state last night. This morning, after no changes whatsoever, it recorded a program on the same channel it was recording silent stuff last night - and SageTV played the audio fine. That sounds to me more like a hardware fault than a configuration error and I am beginning to wonder if that is the issue. The problem there is that Hauppauge do not recognise SageTV as a valid reference - they have argued that, if it works with ArcSoft (which it irritatingly does) then the PVR2 is fine and the problem must be with SageTV.

I am at a loss. Any suggestions?

[BobPhoenix]

What you describe is similar sounding to what I get with my Colossus via HDMI. I just make sure I record a show as many times as I can and delete all the others after I find a good one.