HDTV support, Place your votes!

[Rob]

Originally posted by JJarmoc
It sucks to miss out on HD, but I simply can't live without timshifting.

Exactly! and I hate having to choose.

Hey stranger,

I actually used the accessdtv with version 1.4. It worked perfectly for two of the Dallas area stations. They happened to tune the correct sub channel and the de-mux (or whatever it is) worked correctly playing them back. I also used Sage to schedule recordings on all the stations and then watched the problem stations using the accessdtv software.

Because of this I was slow to go to 2.0. Now I'm missing my HD because I can't live without timeshifting or without version 2.0.

It was really a tease to see Sage almost work with HD....

[JJarmoc]

It was really a tease to see Sage almost work with HD....

Amen. I'm glad I'm not the only one that's dying for HD-Sage. I've been posting about it here for a long time now... probably over a year. I really think there's a lot of people waiting for it. So many early adopters of PVRs and software PVR solutions are also the early adopters for HD... it's incredible no one has really targetted both yet. HD-TiVo is a start, but it has it's limitations. Tivo's downsides are part of why I found Sage intriguing in the first place.

Of course, all the broadcast flag and encryption crap is really killing the market too. But I really don't think HD is ever going to take off if people can't record it.

[flashbacck]

After you watch enough HD TV, you'll gladly cave in to The Man. :P

[flashbacck]

shouldn't you seperate the OTA cards? All those cards don't work the same.

[stanger89]

The only significant difference between them is whether or not they have a hardware decoder (akin to the 250 and 350). They all capture TS/TP streams, the only difference is how they are played back (and playback support is probably another poll altogether).

Actually if anything OTA and QAM could probably have been combined since they both require and HD card where Firewire would be a pure software solution (nearly).

I separated it out more on the basis of what HD source people have access to (and in turn would use).

[LaVike]

I'm voting for Firewire. I'm not going to be getting OTA local channels and I'm already getting it via HD Cable. I'd love for SageTV to be able to control my Moto 6200 for channel selection (the Mac guys can do it) and record via firewire. Folks are doing this right now with other solutions and the right firmware on their box. I'm hoping that the Denver Metro area gets updated soon. Then I can record all non-5C stuff. I don't need to purchase anything but another cable and I'm set.

[GeoffQ]

I vote for OTA I have a MyHD card and would love to use sage with it. If they had a Hardware decoding requirement people would just get more of those cards.
GeoffQ

[wordgasm]

I vote hardware based (myHD120) for me! That way tv out thru card and tv out/dvd/mainlobby/htpc/ thru ATI DVI for dual source/PIP/whatever!

Want the HD PVR full boat, but would settle for Sage working thru myHD tuner, so I could have HD viewing and SDTV viewing/pvr thru one card and one program for now (Im so close to ebaying the directv Samsung HD Tuner), but Im lazy and want my viewing all in one place.

Bring back the Alpha Janus support in 2.0 !!

"I want it ALL!, and I want it NOW!"

Jeff

[stanger89]

A couple thoughts on hardware decoding on HD cards (feel free to comment/correct).

Seems that the AccessDTV and MyHD are the only HW decode HD cards readily available. My current understanding of HD HW decoding is:

The MyHD can only play live, or previously recorded, it can't play something while recording another, or perform any timeshifting. It can do (non CSS?) DVDs.

The AccessDTV, OTOH, can do timeshifting, live, although I'm unsure of it's ability to play something else while recording. It is unable to play DVDs.

Neither can play anything but MPEG 2. Now given that the ADTV is severely limited in output formats like the PVR 350, and that the MyHD can essentially either record or playback, but not both, and that OSD/UI support is unknowd, it seems to me that we should focus on getting only HD recording supported via these cards, relying on software/video card for playback. I realize that these cards have excellent HW decoders, but they, like the 350, are very format specific, use specific, and probably would each require an unique UI implimentation.

I personlly think that HW decode support would be a nice bonus, but is not a must have feature.

[wordgasm]

Well I just got my myHD, dont know much yet, just liked the idea of output being separate from the video card.

But I actually want, whatever is implimented first by Sage and works for the most users(well really for me).

But I like the non-proprietry thought, "more"(if possible) future-proof. Easier to impliment for all systems

And seems most machines these days have the HP.

And like most, I'll buy what ever the solution is .......

BTW, what is the solution ... I'll probably end up with 3 or 4 different HD cards before I get the "right" one.

Would have probably got the HD Wonder, but got impatient and want to get rid of my Direct Samsung HD Receiver. Maybe still will get HDW.

I vote for ..... the best option!

[stanger89]

Originally posted by wordgasm
Would have probably got the HD Wonder, but got impatient and want to get rid of my Direct Samsung HD Receiver. Maybe still will get HDW.

IMO, you're better off with the MyHD than the HDTV Wonder. I still haven't figured out what the fuss is about that card, it's essentially a Fusion III Gold (Not QAM) with ATI software.

I vote for ..... the best option!

Always a good choice

[thomaszoo]

My reason for voting for Firewire is that I believe it will become the predominant way for cable (and possibly satellite) customer to record program content. I currently have a MyHD card that I am thrilled with the quality of, but am less than thrilled with the amount of true HD content (Sacramento, CA market). I am currently a digital cable customer using Sage with a PVR 350. With the fire wire I would gain the ability to record the digital signal for almost all channels in addition to the HD channels. This is more of where I really want to go.

My second choice would be OTA, preferrably with MyHD, but I would be willing to buy one of the others if Sage supported it.

[edraven]

I voted firewire, but I have OTA (myhd mdp-120) as well. With the FCC mandate of requiring cable companies to supply you with a firewire enabled HD box upon request, most people will probably be recording HD via firewire. I hardly ever use OTA anymore now that I have firewire.

[stanger89]

Just curious, but how are you recording via Firewire?

[dmiller]

the way I see it...
Until a capture card that accepts component video (rgb sync-on-green, Y/Pb/Pr) is made, there is only one way to get HD programing from a set top tuner into your computer without losing quality of signal, and that is through firewire. The OTA HD is a joke. The number of transmission towers, even in metropolitan areas, is low, and the direct-line nature of the reception make it lousy. I also cannot believe that anybody who has actually watched HD on a decent HDTV can dispute the AMAZING difference it makes. It is actually better than DVD quality. (this is fact, not opinion)
This is, of course, assuming that you are gettting a decent HD signal from somewhere, and that is why OTA HD is so lame, the real beaty of HD is in the cable or satelite feeds that offer HD only channels and movies, and HD specific programing, in addition to the HD programming on the networks.
To that end, and because I don't believe that DirectTV and DishNetworkwould allow a computer tuner card for there services, I am in favor of firewire. If I am wrong about any of this, like the existance of a capture card that accepts componment rgb, PLEASE let me know.
It seems rediculous to me that I have HD quality programming and have to dumb it down to S-Video or Composite to capture it and record it. I would persoanlly LOVE to have a capture card that accepts rgb component, but untill that exists, firewire is the only way I know of to get HD quality video into my computer.

[dmiller]

BTW, you can add Pyro A/V link (API-550) by ADS Technologies to the list in your first post for equipment thatwould make a firewire connection from cable/sat box/HD integrated TV.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by dmiller
the way I see it...
Until a capture card that accepts component video (rgb sync-on-green, Y/Pb/Pr) is made, there is only one way to get HD programing from a set top tuner into your computer without losing quality of signal, and that is through firewire. The OTA HD is a joke. The number of transmission towers, even in metropolitan areas, is low, and the direct-line nature of the reception make it lousy. I also cannot believe that anybody who has actually watched HD on a decent HDTV can dispute the AMAZING difference it makes. It is actually better than DVD quality. (this is fact, not opinion)

I'm not suggeting that HD is better than DVD, what I'm saying is that whether it's "AMAZING" or not depends greatly the size and quality of display you're running. For the majority of people with sub 40" displays I'd say the difference is subtle to small. It's not until you get to large high quality front projections displays that the difference is approaches "AMAZING". As with anything there are varying levels of quality. But having seen some HD and some of the most recent DVDs (Raiders of the Lost Arc), colors are almost equivalent, so the biggest difference is in fine detail.

That's not to say that given the option for HD I wouldn't jump at it, but it's just like DVD-Audio and SACD, yes it's better, I'd like to take advantage of it, but the improved quality just isn't worth giving up convenience and freedom IMO.

And there are a lot of people with OTA HD cards that would disagree with you that OTA is "a joke".

This is, of course, assuming that you are gettting a decent HD signal from somewhere, and that is why OTA HD is so lame, the real beaty of HD is in the cable or satelite feeds that offer HD only channels and movies, and HD specific programing, in addition to the HD programming on the networks.
To that end, and because I don't believe that DirectTV and DishNetworkwould allow a computer tuner card for there services, I am in favor of firewire. If I am wrong about any of this, like the existance of a capture card that accepts componment rgb, PLEASE let me know.
It seems rediculous to me that I have HD quality programming and have to dumb it down to S-Video or Composite to capture it and record it. I would persoanlly LOVE to have a capture card that accepts rgb component, but untill that exists, firewire is the only way I know of to get HD quality video into my computer.

FWIW, I think an HD version of the PVR 250 is our best hope for recording HD, it will be the only one not subject to encryption or copy protection crap.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by dmiller
BTW, you can add Pyro A/V link (API-550) by ADS Technologies to the list in your first post for equipment thatwould make a firewire connection from cable/sat box/HD integrated TV.

It doesn't record HD. It's just an NTSC to DV converter, and not a firewire link of the type needed for HD support.

[dmiller]

I know it doesn't record HD, the software does that. I use my "pvr" computer, like all of my Home Theare stuff, by connecting it through my receiver. In my case, the computer is more of a digital vcr. I actually connect it through the VCR2 section of my receiver. The pyro converts the component rgb to firewire, and this way anything the travels through my reciever to my tv can be recorded by my computer. I play back the recorded shows through a vga to component rgb cable. again, I am able to record anything that is connected to my receiver; my set top satelite HD box, DVD, actual VCR, even the radio. The problem is that my computer is just a digital vcr in this setup. Timed recordings don't really work, and I can't pause live tv...

But, with this setup I can keep everything connected with component rgb (except the vcr obviously) and not lose quality along the way.

[dmiller]

The reason I said that OTA is a joke is the minimal amount of actual HD programming available OTA. I recieve OTA HD and satelite HD, the comparison is just not fair. And it's not like I live in the backwoods sither, I'm actually just 35 miles from down town chicago. Far enough away that the buildings aren't causing any interferrence or bounce issues, but close enough that you'd think I'd be getting some decent OTA content. I am only able to tune in 1 or 2 channels at a time by rotating my on the roof arial HD antenna.

I also would LOVE to be able to tune HD with a capture card, but I can't see the satelite companies giving up that control with capture cards, it would be too easy for people to steal their content. They already have those crazy encryption cards in their boxes to control their content. And I can't see getting a new HD capture card, just to get OTA content, that, to me, is not worth it.

I think the best solution is to make it possible to process the video, after it has left the tuner box, like most of the cable and satelite subscribers are doing now. To me the most logical way of doing that is with a component rgb capture card, but since that doesn't exist, firwire seems the most logical next step, since cable boxes are already coming with the firewire connection.