SageTV backup plan?

[will]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I guess I'll never understand why some people are so put off by PC clients; that's all I've ever used.

I love my HD300s/200s; they rock and give me a great experience and they take up such a small footprint which is especially important when adding them to a setup where you just have a TV (no other AV equipment).

I run one client in my kitchen. I do run it virtualized on an iMac so my experience is probably tainted but it works well just took a lot of time to get it to where it is today. There are pros and cons - e.g., the video library loads super fast on the client but it doesn't have native closed captioning support like an extender. The client doesn't like the two video files I have with embedded AAC audio but the extenders don't mind. It's the little things; I feel like the extenders just work and work well.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

It seems like many would change their entire setup and move to a whole new solution before running a PC client. Considering the technical knowledge of the majority of Sage users, I would never have expected them to be so apprehensive about using a full PC as a client. To each their own, though.

I agree; I would build clients all day long before leaving Sage. I wish there were better options for client cases/all-in-ones. A Mac Mini would work well but that would be pretty expensive, especially if you are buying more than one.

[Skirge01]

Has anyone tried a NUC as a PC client yet? I'm primarily thinking of these for secondary TV's, where there's no receiver, but they may even work fine hooked up to the primary TV.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I guess I'll never understand why some people are so put off by PC clients; that's all I've ever used. It seems like many would change their entire setup and move to a whole new solution before running a PC client. Considering the technical knowledge of the majority of Sage users, I would never have expected them to be so apprehensive about using a full PC as a client. To each their own, though.

I used to have only HTPC clients. I have built dozens->hundreds of PCs in my life (my dad founded a PC store in....1984, and slave labor'ed me).

Speaking only for me, I wouldn't hesitate to spend $600 on an HD300-like appliance instead of $300 on an HTPC for the following reasons:
1) Speed of setup. I still play 5 games of soccer/week, have 2 kids, tough job.. My free time is scarce. Why do the work setting something up when someone else has already done it? (assuming I can modify the GUI)
2) Noise. I need one in the MBR, but I can't sleep with noise. And its near impossible to get wake-on-IR to work right.
3) Speed of wakeup. If I figure out how to get S3 to work, then wakeup time is too long. Although with my Samsung SSD Win8 laptop I must admit its pretty darn fast, I can be operational within 15-20 seconds, so this might not be true anymore.
4) Power consumption. I could leave it on 24x7, but in CA power is $0.40/Kwh at incremental rates, so it could be $15/month/PC.
5) Usable with a remote. Based on the front end. I won't say much as the next one is the issue, not any given app.
6) Consolidated GUI. This is the BIG one. I use Netflix, Amazon, Google TV, and SageTV in equal proportions. If I could find an HTPC front end to have a consistent look & feel across them, where I could easily switch between them, while still using an IR remote, I'd buy an i5 NUC today and play.

The Sony NS7-GS8 GoogleTV is the closest I've seen to this, but it still falls short. And plex KILLS my server with transcoding from mkv to it.

[Skirge01]

I get all of that; it's the same list of reasons people have listed before Google bought SageTV out. What I don't understand is--given the fact that SageTV extenders aren't made any longer--what alternative solution are you going to move to which will give you what you just described? My point was that people seem to be willing to move to a completely new solution, changing up everything in their home (both hardware and software), instead of building PC clients. That's the thing that I'll never understand, especially given how much people complain about what they LOSE when moving to something not-Sage. Yet, they'll still do it to avoid PC clients. Like I originally said, I don't think I'll ever understand the logic.

Also, I didn't think that the Sage extenders were capable of bringing you Netflix, Amazon, and GoogleTV.

[tchapin]

How would you get licenses for client units?

There's definitely a cost - benefit analysis that you have to do when considering going client. Do I want the headache of managing 3 more Windows machines in my house? Is there one small enough that I can double-sided tape it behind my TV like I do my HD200?

Sage is a dying platform, does it makes sense to try everything to keep it going, or is it less effort overall, even with reduced functionality, to switch to something new?

In my house, we're thinking of cutting the cord, but my guess is that my wife will hate it in the end, even though her hatred of Comcast is really the prime motivator in terms of cable.

[will]

Originally Posted by tchapin

How would you get licenses for client units?

Through the forums - licenses are very easy to come by and cheap.

Originally Posted by tchapin

There's definitely a cost - benefit analysis that you have to do when considering going client. Do I want the headache of managing 3 more Windows machines in my house? Is there one small enough that I can double-sided tape it behind my TV like I do my HD200?

I agree that there would be some work but the amount of work and setup depends on your budget. If you purchased a Mac Mini as your client then you could setup Windows on auto pilot, have a built in IR port, a GREAT looking "extender," and full support for HD with no issues. But that costs $600. If you build something you won't have as nice and compact of a case.

Like a lot of things in life it comes down to money. Getting rid of cable/Sage would be a very different experience. You would lose out on quality (cable is better quality than streaming) and you wouldn't get as much access to content.

Personally, being able to record high quality TV that isn't encrypted, have unlimited storage, and a huge blu-ray movie library that can be accessed from any location in the house instantly is worth the costs. But a lot of people are happy with just Netflix and Hulu; to each their own.

It all comes down to pros and cons. For me, this is worth the costs. I don't have a lot of time to always watch TV and when I do I want the experience to be the best which for me is SageTV.

[BobPhoenix]

I use this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16856173037 in my bedroom. It works well. I DON'T have IR startability but once turned on I can use EventGhost and my remote to turn it off along with my TV. It is possible to mount it on the back of a flat screen TV but my TV is a 30" tube HD set currently and has nothing to mount it to even if I wanted to. The fan can only be heard when I put my ear right next to it under normal playback. When I want to watch TV I press the TV power button and the button on the Zotac I linked and with the SSD lets it show a Windows screen in less time than my HD200 take to connect to a different SageTV server on my network.

I've thought about getting a NUC and replacing the Livingroom server/playback box with the NUC as a client and the exiting SageTV server box becomes my new Desktop system. Then create a new Server that just records and is silent for the Livingroom. Just can't justify the expense for two new systems (NUC and new server) yet.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

especially given how much people complain about what they LOSE when moving to something not-Sage. Yet, they'll still do it to avoid PC clients

Also, I didn't think that the Sage extenders were capable of bringing you Netflix, Amazon, and GoogleTV.

Realistically, what am I going to "lose" by leaving Sage? And I'm not throwing away the infrastructure, I'll always need a server for ripped movies and my home automation stuff, so its just the head-end (extenders)

Literally the only thing I'll lose, which is admittedly HUGE, is unlimited TV storage. Although the new Tivo Roamio has a swappable internal HD plus an eSata, so I could pop an internal 4TB and external 4TB. (And a $15/month recurring cost so its a marginally higher cost)

Other than that, the Sony google NSZ-GS8 can handle it all:
A) Plex app handles all my ripped media
B) Streaming apps (netflix, amazon, google TV)

But, I also gain items:
1) supposedly a "search" function on the Sony will search ripped + streaming. I can't get it to work, but i've tried for perhaps 7 minutes after which I got bored.
2) Unparalleled mobile capabilities.
2a - SUPER SIMPLE streaming of everything in my ripped collection to mobile devices over 4G.
2b - A "sync" button to locally store movies. IE, if I have a slow network connection in a hotel, I can press "sync" to download movies at night,
and in the morning they'll be there.
2c - The Tivo Roamio allows mobile streaming of TV shows.
3) Extenders are even cheaper than the HD300 ($120 for the Sony).
4) Plex allows "shared" libraries, right now i'm friends with 2 buddies, so I can watch movies in their libraries and vice-versa over the InterWebz.

So really, the question is this: Is building an HTPC as a client worth the unlimited storage?

The Tivo Roamio is $200, stream is $130, plus monthly and my sage extenders currently work fine so I won't buy it just yet. But when my next extender dies, I really don't know. If the Tivo Roamio matures, and as more people figure out how to connect an eSata RAID enclosure so I'm not subject to HD failure, I'd likely go that route.

All that said, I'd probably leave SageTV running on the server for recording old shows (ie, Seinfeld, Law&Order, etc), or current shows I want to keep in my permanent collection (ie Once Upon A Time) since I can access them via Plex. In admittedly a less-than-perfect way.

[Taddeusz]

I love Plex. It needs some playlist functionality for music but other than that it really fits my needs for mobility. Being able to sync to my iPad or iPhone so I'm not using internet bandwidth at work is a big plus.

At home we have SageTV for recordings and our ripped library. Currently our Xbox 360 serves all the streaming needs. I've been dabbling with Plex as a kind of replacement. Got a Raspberry Pi and loaded it up with Rasplex but discovered that the Pi is not powerful enough for full BD video playback. It at least decides to transcode the video but then 5.1 surround is lost.

BTW, the latest version of Rasplex fixes a lot of the issues I had before with no de-interlacing of video and with playback problems with 1080i HDPVR recordings.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by IVB

So really, the question is this: Is building an HTPC as a client worth the unlimited storage?

For ME yes it is. I have a 64TB unRAID server that is 76% full (14.83TB free) and several other smaller ones. But I don't think there are many that have need of that much space.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

For ME yes it is. I have a 64TB unRAID server that is 76% full (14.83TB free) and several other smaller ones. But I don't think there are many that have need of that much space.

All TV shows, or movies too?

If TV, then yeah I see your point, you'll always be on a PC-based DVR.

I do wish there was some way to use Plex as the front end for SageTV with total control. Then I'd be content leaving Sage as the invisible back end recording engine, with Plex for playback. I could even live with a MobileWeb or regular web based interface for scheduling new recordings, although it would take some prodding for the wife.

But, nobody in their right mind would integrate Plex with a dead product. Heck, I'm still amazed these forums work. At least Google gave us that.

[IVB]

not to beat a dead horse, but I had another reminder last night about how SageTV is just not the panacea it used to be. We're going on a week long trip tomorrow night. Wife & I both have many TV shows we've been unable to watch due to the real world. Its a cross country trip, so both on the plane and late at night while we're on CA time, we can catch up. But internet service is going to be spotty.

With SageTV I had to convert the recordings & manually copy them to the appropriate device. (Wife has an iPad, I have a Nexus 7 & Nexus 5, kids have a Nexus 7)

With Plex sitting on top of SageTV, I went to the server web page, selected episodes, and clicked "Sync". At which point it offered up a list of devices, I picked the one(s) I wanted, and it took care of transcoding & sending to device while I slept. (I made the wife do this for herself as I won't take responsibility for choosing the wrong Real Annoying Housewives of Orange County).

I'll still use SageTV as the back-end engine since its awesome to have infinite storage and no copy protection, but to me that ease of use is awesome.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by IVB

All TV shows, or movies too?

If TV, then yeah I see your point, you'll always be on a PC-based DVR.

I do wish there was some way to use Plex as the front end for SageTV with total control. Then I'd be content leaving Sage as the invisible back end recording engine, with Plex for playback. I could even live with a MobileWeb or regular web based interface for scheduling new recordings, although it would take some prodding for the wife.

But, nobody in their right mind would integrate Plex with a dead product. Heck, I'm still amazed these forums work. At least Google gave us that.

I record both Series and Movies. If I like the Series or Movie well enough that I want to spend extra then I buy it in BluRay if it doesn't look like it will come out on BluRay then I get a DVD - both get ripped to HDD and the BluRay/DVD becomes my backup. If I like it but not well enough to spend additional money to purchase on BlueRay/DVD then I just keep the recording - largest majority of what I have. The 64TB server is my HD server and everything on it is recorded either from HDPVRs or ATSC/QAM in HD. I have my BluRays and DVDs rips on a different box. It is ~20TB at about 50-60% full of ripped BluRays, DVDs and ~2TB of MP4's of re-encoded SageTV recordings from before HDPVRs came out. But the biggest reason I record is I want control of the files I don't want to try to watch something only to find out that Netflix no longer has it available because it wasn't popular enough or they only make it available on a rotating basis. So I won't be streaming it. I would have to get a program that would let me store it locally which would then lead to massive space requirements again - significantly smaller because of better compression than a recording but still substantial space requirements. Plus the gray nature of that makes me steer clear even though I'm not for BluRays/DVDs. That is only done so that I can have a working disk to go back to and doesn't ware out from use.

[IVB]

oy, I suspect one of my last 2 extenders is not long for this world, the network connection stopped working last night. Right as the wife was watching crap reality TV. I quickly swapped the MBR & FamRm extenders, and after cooling down the HD300 started working again.

I ended up staying up until 1:30am getting my SageTV->Plex on GoogleTV working (had to finish up this morning, not importing in TV art or descriptions), so that way I can decide whether to just buy a $125 replacement NSZ-GS8 extender and watch SageTV via Plex, or whether I really need to build an HTPC. I only have room for a NUC so it has to be tiny, which is $400-$600.

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by IVB

oy, I suspect one of my last 2 extenders is not long for this world, the network connection stopped working last night. Right as the wife was watching crap reality TV. I quickly swapped the MBR & FamRm extenders, and after cooling down the HD300 started working again.

I ended up staying up until 1:30am getting my SageTV->Plex on GoogleTV working (had to finish up this morning, not importing in TV art or descriptions), so that way I can decide whether to just buy a $125 replacement NSZ-GS8 extender and watch SageTV via Plex, or whether I really need to build an HTPC. I only have room for a NUC so it has to be tiny, which is $400-$600.

Are you using the SageTV Plex scanner and agent? I have a fix in place I'm waiting on some people to test. Happy to bring you in to test it if you'd like.... Pm me your email if interested.

[Evil_Attorney]

I have the i5 version of the NUC (D54250WYK) with the HD 5000 graphics and it is excellent. I almost exclusively use it for playing back blu-rays via XBMC, but I have Sage on there as a backup in case my HD300 dies. It is completely quiet and runs very cool. The built-in IR sensor is a nice perk too. And if you run Win 8, its tiles are very remote friendly.

The main reason I don't use Sage on it is that there is no way to output native refresh rate in Sage, though XBMC does this quite well on it.

[guho]

Client PC suggestion: Asrock VisionX Haswell mini-PC.

http://www.asrock.com/nettop/Intel/V...s%20(Haswell)/

I have this in my family room. Upgraded the optical drive to BluRay (came with DVDRW. Earlier gen VisionX came with BluRay). Takes 2.5" SSD and HDD (room for two drives) and an mSata SSD as well. 3D-capable. Remote included.

Expensive, but if you want the best in a small form factor that handles it all I would recommend it.

Budget client PC option: Mac Mini 2009 which has the nVidia graphics and is powerful enough for Mpeg 2 and Mpeg 4 playback perfectly smooth. I have observed perfect playback using the latest nvidia drivers and windows on bootcamp. The latest Mac OS X was not capable of perfect playback on this hardware (hiccups).

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by IVB

oy, I suspect one of my last 2 extenders is not long for this world, the network connection stopped working last night. Right as the wife was watching crap reality TV. I quickly swapped the MBR & FamRm extenders, and after cooling down the HD300 started working again.

I ended up staying up until 1:30am getting my SageTV->Plex on GoogleTV working (had to finish up this morning, not importing in TV art or descriptions), so that way I can decide whether to just buy a $125 replacement NSZ-GS8 extender and watch SageTV via Plex, or whether I really need to build an HTPC. I only have room for a NUC so it has to be tiny, which is $400-$600.

Question, what was she doing when it crapped out? My HD300 in the living room occasionally will lock up and refuse to play any video. I usually can still cruise the menus and do all other functions except play any recordings. (live too?, not sure I never watch live)
Sometimes this happens with a bad recording, but sometimes I can also get it to happen if I do multiple quick FF/RW's (i.e. not waiting for it to finish the last command)
Once this happens it will refuse to play any recording, even known good ones, until I unplug the HD300 and plug it back in. (on/off via the remote does not work)
Sometimes when this happens it will take several minutes for the server to show up on the HD300.

Could this have been what happened to you? I know the first time it happened to me I started panicking thinking it was either my HD300 or my server that had just died on me. But a reboot of the HD300 was all it took.

I am running 2 Sage machines and when this happens the HD300 will not play video off either machine until I unplug/replug it. That is how I figured out the problem was not on my server, but the HD300.

[BobbyDing]

Originally Posted by IVB

oy, I suspect one of my last 2 extenders is not long for this world, the network connection stopped working last night. Right as the wife was watching crap reality TV. I quickly swapped the MBR & FamRm extenders, and after cooling down the HD300 started working again.

I have both my HD300's sitting on notepad cooling pads (fans). They were on sale at Radio Shack for $5 each (USB powered), but even at their normal price they'd be well worth the $$$. They make no noise that I can hear and they work very well at keeping the units cool. I recommend this to anybody using an HD300.

Bobby

[IVB]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

Question, what was she doing when it crapped out? My HD300 in the living room occasionally will lock up and refuse to play any video. I usually can still cruise the menus and do all other functions except play any recordings. (live too?, not sure I never watch live)
Sometimes this happens with a bad recording, but sometimes I can also get it to happen if I do multiple quick FF/RW's (i.e. not waiting for it to finish the last command)
Once this happens it will refuse to play any recording, even known good ones, until I unplug the HD300 and plug it back in. (on/off via the remote does not work)
Sometimes when this happens it will take several minutes for the server to show up on the HD300.

Could this have been what happened to you? I know the first time it happened to me I started panicking thinking it was either my HD300 or my server that had just died on me. But a reboot of the HD300 was all it took.

I am running 2 Sage machines and when this happens the HD300 will not play video off either machine until I unplug/replug it. That is how I figured out the problem was not on my server, but the HD300.

interesting. She was watching TV. Even pulling the plug didn't work. But 5-10 minutes later in the H/T, it worked fine.

The cooling fan is an interesting idea, although I'm now cutover to Plex as the front end pointing to SageTV. I watched TV on my Nexus 7 last night, and when done the episodes were marked as watched to every other Plex client. (2 TVs, 3 tablets). Thats pretty freaking cool, and an example of how SageTV *Client* is not remotely as far ahead as it used to be. SageTV as the back-end with Plex as the front end seems ludicrously powerful.