Copy once recordings?

[Tweeker]

I currently use SAGEDCT to record from Verizon Fios and they are starting to change some of the channels from copy-freely to copy-once. Is there any chance that the open source version can be made to record copy-once recordings? I have a lot invested in SageTV and would rather not move to WMC.

Thx.

[stanger89]

I would say almost no chance.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by Tweeker

I currently use SAGEDCT to record from Verizon Fios and they are starting to change some of the channels from copy-freely to copy-once. Is there any chance that the open source version can be made to record copy-once recordings? I have a lot invested in SageTV and would rather not move to WMC.

Thx.

You can always try the HDPVR route to avoid moving to WMC...

[Narflex]

Yeah, no chance here...whenever Verizon switches my channels over to Copy Once from Copy Freely; then I switch them over to one of my 2 HDPVR lineups I have configured.

Which ones have you noticed them changing lately because I haven't seen any changes myself yet recently?

[Tweeker]

Verizon has tagged the FOX channels including Nat Geo as copy-once. Unfortunately I guess it's time to move to WMC.

Thx for the replies.

[reggie14]

Verizon's move to mark Fox channels copy-once was discussed in another thread.

For me, the change impacted the following channels:

• FX HD (EAST)
• Fox Sports 1 HD
• BTN HD
• Fox Business Ne
• Fox News HD
• National Geo HD
• Nat Geo Wild HD
• FXX HD

It's annoying, but I kept an HD-PVR going for HBO anyway, so it wasn't that big of deal.

[jm9843]

Originally Posted by Narflex

Yeah, no chance here...

Hypothetically, if you were using a CableLabs certified tuner for protected content (e.g. HDHomeRun) and a SageTV client built for a platform that implements one of the supported DRM schemes (e.g. Android TV/PlayReady) - what hurdles remain to support copy once?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by jm9843

Hypothetically, if you were using a CableLabs certified tuner for protected content (e.g. HDHomeRun) and a SageTV client built for a platform that implements one of the supported DRM schemes (e.g. Android TV/PlayReady) - what hurdles remain to support copy once?

To a certain extent, I wondered this, too, before Google bought Sage. That is, if Sage really wanted, could they have implemented PlayReady DRM into clients and/or extenders to get CableCard support? The usual problem I heard was that CableLabs certification was too expensive for that to be viable, but I don't think DVR software needs that- it just needs to use approved DRM technologies.

Nonetheless, at this point I don't see how it would be practically possible. I imagine even if CableLabs certification isn't required, there would still be DRM technologies that would need to be licensed. Since its not a commercial product, who would pay for that? Even if money magically appeared, who would be accountable on the SageTV side to abide by the licensing terms?

[stanger89]

"All" Sage should have to do is implement PlayReady (like WMC) or DTCP-IP (Silicondust). The tuners themselves have the CableCard certification and do the conversion from Cable encryption to approved DRM (PlayReady/DTCP-IP).

The problems are:
1) Funding the licenses for PlayReady/DTCP-IP
2) Implementing them and getting that implementation approved by Microsoft/DTCP-LA.

I think both of those are extremely unlikely for an Open Source project.

[Gustovier]

Never mind play ready. DTCP-IP is the way to go here with silicon dust cable card prime. Somebody would have to basically fork the open source and make it closed source and then do the work to secure the dtcp-up license and keys which isn't impossible. There's a couple of software apps out there thr support it already on both windows and android. This version of sage tv would have to be sold as well to recoup license costs. There's a per instance cost I believe on top of the initial buy. This is also only a possibility if the open source version of sage licensing will allow this fork to happen. So narflex please make this be possible so if an enterprising/philanthropic (if they sell for cost) group of folks decide to do this they can.

[Narflex]

Originally Posted by Gustovier

Never mind play ready. DTCP-IP is the way to go here with silicon dust cable card prime. Somebody would have to basically fork the open source and make it closed source and then do the work to secure the dtcp-up license and keys which isn't impossible. There's a couple of software apps out there thr support it already on both windows and android. This version of sage tv would have to be sold as well to recoup license costs. There's a per instance cost I believe on top of the initial buy. This is also only a possibility if the open source version of sage licensing will allow this fork to happen. So narflex please make this be possible so if an enterprising/philanthropic (if they sell for cost) group of folks decide to do this they can.

Correct in that DTCP-IP would be the way to go for this. The HDHRPrime supports that as an output technique now. However, in order to receive that, one needs to be a DTLA licensee and then follow certain security rules with that content. After receipt over DTCP-IP it would either need to be 'bound' to a specific storage device (don't ask me to get into details regarding that, that's about as specific as they get) or would need to be wrapped with a suitable DRM (or simply played back directly, but then that ignores DVR)...but both of those techniques essentially require running inside a secure context. It's definitely theoretically possible that a 3rd party could create a component that one could use an API to which instructs it to receive the DTCP-IP stream and then wrap it in a DRM and store it. And then integrate with a playback system that supports that DRM as well. I do not know if such things currently exist though...but it's a possibility. That would need to be done on a platform with some level of security (i.e. not something like Ubuntu Linux; but more possibly Android/iOS).

The SageTV open source software will be under the Apache license for the code that we wrote (there's of course tons of 3rd party libraries SageTV used which are under different various license). There's no real licensing blockers I see for someone else to make a commercial product out of SageTV if they really wanted to....but I'm not a lawyer, and will not be held to that statement.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Narflex

The SageTV open source software will be under the Apache license for the code that we wrote (there's of course tons of 3rd party libraries SageTV used which are under different various license). There's no real licensing blockers I see for someone else to make a commercial product out of SageTV if they really wanted to....but I'm not a lawyer, and will not be held to that statement.

I see the best "hope" for this in Silicon Dust PVR maybe opening their player and api they are going to be using on the windows platform. They promised CC protected content on windows as part of their funding so here is to hoping it's a via a method a third party can call their protected player. Just a big pipe dream I know.

[Fuzzy]

Early on, didn't sage support a playback plugin system, where an external process could to the playback, and the content could be rendered onto the SageTV window, masked by any UI elements? If that's the case, a DRM compliant, closed source playback library, might be able to be used and the content played back in the sage window.

Or maybe it was the other way around - a plugin that could render the UI external to the sage program, in which case, a UI receiver would need to be developed in the closed source playback program.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Early on, didn't sage support a playback plugin system, where an external process could to the playback, and the content could be rendered onto the SageTV window, masked by any UI elements? If that's the case, a DRM compliant, closed source playback library, might be able to be used and the content played back in the sage window.

I'm pretty sure rendering "secure" content to an "insecure" surface would be a violation of the licensing agreement for whatever DRM you're using.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'm pretty sure rendering "secure" content to an "insecure" surface would be a violation of the licensing agreement for whatever DRM you're using.

Not neceassarily. The rendering of DRM video to an insecure surface is how PlayOn is able to capture and record protected content all the time.

In any case, it might be easier to go the other way anyway, and render the sage UI on top of a different player mechanism.

It turns out sage has both those capabilities (to outsource media playback, and allow it to write to the sagetv window, AND to render the UI and export the rendered transparent image out to a different program).

[KryptoNyte]

Fuzzy, is there a way for SageTV to launch a browser, screen-capture the browser and cast that to a virtual tuner?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Fuzzy, is there a way for SageTV to launch a browser, screen-capture the browser and cast that to a virtual tuner?

That's essentially what PlayOn does (with the exception of going to a tuner). It renders the page to a hidden window, and captures the window, and encodes it to h.264. There are a ton of channels people have developed for PlayOn for various streaming web sites out there.

[KryptoNyte]

I was wondering if there was a way to build on that, to essentially get a browser window in Sage with mouse control via an extender remote and a virtual keyboard of some sort.

Once you have a browser in Sage [screen-scraped], wouldn't that open up a whole host of new options?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

I was wondering if there was a way to build on that, to essentially get a browser window in Sage with mouse control via an extender remote and a virtual keyboard of some sort.

Once you have a browser in Sage [screen-scraped], wouldn't that open up a whole host of new options?

Not sure what options you are looking for. I, personally, would much rather have a video file to play instead of navigating a web page.

[KryptoNyte]

I was thinking that every time Amazon, Netflix, or Hulu changed their webpage interface, that there wouldn't be any work involved for the person coding this plugin. Perhaps the Playon interface you mentioned in another thread achieves this.