Amazon Fire Sticks and TV

[Jackass]

I have been on the hunt for good yet affordable media players for use across my house for the past couple of years. My Sage PC is no longer connected to my TV directly so finding something that supports the mini-client is very important.

MiBox
I tried out a MiBox which worked great for Sage, but was very disappointing for just about everything else. HBOgo didn't work consistently and no access to Amazon Prime content. Even had some issues with Netflix. So this box ended up getting demoted to a secondary TV in the exercise room.

I had a few different Amazon devices which tend to work, but they have some gotchas.

Fire TV Stick Gen 1
Really doesn't work well at all. Just doesn't have enough CPU behind it.

Fire TV Stick Gen 2
This "works", but can't really handle MPEG streams well. I had to disable hardware decoders for MPEG and it "works" now, but for sure laggy. As long as the streams have been encoded to H.264, it behaves better, but still just doesn't have quite enough CPU to work really well.
- Live OTA streams barely work on this device. Very laggy and slow to respond to pause, rew, ff, etc.

Fire TV Gen 2
This is the square box looking thing. Overall, this box handles the mini-client fairly well. This device is our daily driver on the main TV in the living room.
- it doesn't support hardware decode of MPEG, so it does still struggle a bit on OTA streams
- DD5.1 audio works only if you use EXOplayer
- EXOplayer doesn't appear to work with a lot of streams/formats

Fire TV Stick 4K
I picked up a couple of these in the past couple of months when they went on sale for $35. I have not done a deep dive on config and use case of these yet, but they look promising. They do have hardware decode for MPEG-2 so OTA streams seem to work better. I have not tested DD5.1 support yet since the TV in use doesn't have external speakers connected.....yet. I plan to replace my Fire TV with these.

Overall Notes:
- Can't use placeshifter due to login screen and keyboard issues
- DD5.1 support works with EXOplayer, but introduces other "issues"
- interface is sluggish when compared to performance on MiBox
- the newer remotes are nice since they can drive your basic TV functions
- the price point of these for sure help overcome the few issues they have

I really wish I could figure out how to get the placeshifter function to work. One reason is I like to keep my IoT/Appliances on a semi-isolated portion of my network. That puts it on a different subnet than my sage box which automatically triggers the PlaceShifter login screen. The second use case is my desire to use Sage when I travel. I have never been able to figure out how to get through the login options with the keyboard hiding and taking over the screen.

The issue is discussed here: https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63637

[Jackass]

Of course just after I post this I find the links to the Amazon developer pages that states that a Fire TV Stick Gen 2 has hardware MPEG-2 support. I need to go sit down and compare my settings between my various devices to confirm I haven't mixed up my Gen1 vs Gen2 sticks.

I need to just throw my Gen1 sticks in the trash...they are pretty much annoying and useless at this point since they are just so slow overall.

[Eternal]

hardware mpeg2 doesnt work on firestick gen 2
it has never worked for me

i have a gen3 firetv but since the latest update it freezes after playing video for a few minutes

[scoful]

Just got one of these:
Insignia NS-24DF310NA19 24-inch 720p HD Smart LED TV- Fire TV Edition https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FPRZ69X..._HnW9CbTAV5RST
Loaded up the mini client like a champ!

All in one SageTV client appliance!

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by scoful

Just got one of these:
Insignia NS-24DF310NA19 24-inch 720p HD Smart LED TV- Fire TV Edition https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FPRZ69X..._HnW9CbTAV5RST
Loaded up the mini client like a champ!

All in one SageTV client appliance!

Have you tried playing MPEG-2 (in a TS wrapper such as OTA TV) on it, within the miniclient?

[Thomas Wischgol]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Have you tried playing MPEG-2 (in a TS wrapper such as OTA TV) on it, within the miniclient?

I just bought the 32-inch version of that TV and it seems to play recorded OTA MPEG-2 streams just fine. It does not work with the Exo player, but IJK seems to work. What does not work with IJK is online content as that stops after a few seconds. Exo player works in that case but that then does not play MPEGs. So I stick with IJK.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Thomas Wischgol

I just bought the 32-inch version of that TV and it seems to play recorded OTA MPEG-2 streams just fine. It does not work with the Exo player, but IJK seems to work. What does not work with IJK is online content as that stops after a few seconds. Exo player works in that case but that then does not play MPEGs. So I stick with IJK.

Can you explain what you mean or how you are playing things? Specifically, if you are referring to exoplayer and IJK then I'm assuming you are talking about the Sage MiniClient, but if you are referring to online content and still mentioning those settings, are you talking about youtube within sage, or the PlayOn plug in? (Otherwise, what online content is there?) My whole intent of using the Sage MiniClient is simply for DVR function of TV shows, and I'd be using the smart apps of the device (in your case, the TV) for online content, so if switching to IJK is all I'd need for sage OTA playing on my fire stick, then I'm all set.

Curious because I have a new fire stick 4k (only a couple of weeks old so I assume a newer model) and it won't play OTA mpeg2 in Sage with the default settings. I get audio and a black screen. I have not tried either of the other two settings.

I asked in another thread whether the fire tvs might be different from the sticks because perhaps they have mpeg2 decoding due to having a TV tuner (meaning when you directly plug an antenna into the coax jack on the back.) I would guess that the TV tuner and the smart brain are totally different entities inside the TV set but maybe if they have mpeg2 support, they "just have it" throughout?

[scoful]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Have you tried playing MPEG-2 (in a TS wrapper such as OTA TV) on it, within the miniclient?

I cannot play dvd folders. Pretty sure cablecard is outputting h264 or something so I don’t think I’m running anything mpeg to anymore.

I’d like to be able to play dvd/blu ray folders but I converted them so I have them both ways and I rarely buy discs anymore.

[pjpjpjpj]

Update:
On my Fire stick 4K, I disabled hardware decoders (IJK) and also checked "allow native software decoders". Live and recorded OTA (MPEG2) played fine, though stuttered a bit at the start and appeared possibly a little muddy.

On my (new in the past two weeks) Fire Stick (not 4K), this same configuration played but for some reason squeezed the 16:9 video down and put black bars at the top and bottom (almost like it was trying to be film at 2.3x:1). Unchecking the "native software decoders" caused it to stutter, skip, and fail. I have not tried it on an older Fire stick but I can't imagine it would be any different (if not worse).

[Thomas Wischgol]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Can you explain what you mean or how you are playing things? Specifically, if you are referring to exoplayer and IJK then I'm assuming you are talking about the Sage MiniClient, but if you are referring to online content and still mentioning those settings, are you talking about youtube within sage, or the PlayOn plug in? (Otherwise, what online content is there?) My whole intent of using the Sage MiniClient is simply for DVR function of TV shows, and I'd be using the smart apps of the device (in your case, the TV) for online content, so if switching to IJK is all I'd need for sage OTA playing on my fire stick, then I'm all set.

Curious because I have a new fire stick 4k (only a couple of weeks old so I assume a newer model) and it won't play OTA mpeg2 in Sage with the default settings. I get audio and a black screen. I have not tried either of the other two settings.

I asked in another thread whether the fire tvs might be different from the sticks because perhaps they have mpeg2 decoding due to having a TV tuner (meaning when you directly plug an antenna into the coax jack on the back.) I would guess that the TV tuner and the smart brain are totally different entities inside the TV set but maybe if they have mpeg2 support, they "just have it" throughout?

Yes, I am solely referring to the Sage mini client. I can only play online content with the exoplayer in the mini client. However, then I cannot play any recorded mpeg file. That only seems to work with IJK. If I use IJK for online content it stops playing after a few seconds. And correct, I am talking about playing online content directly, not with playon. Youtube is one of them but I also added a few video podcasts. I see the same behavior with all of the ones I tested so far.

I have not changed any of the settings for IJK, such as disable hardware decoders. My TV is not 4K so I would assume it does not have the 4K version of the fire tv built in. I have another fire tv stick (the first generation) which does play SageTV recordings just fine as well. It is not as good as a full SageTV client but for a secondary TV it is okay to me.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Thomas Wischgol

Yes, I am solely referring to the Sage mini client. I can only play online content with the exoplayer in the mini client. However, then I cannot play any recorded mpeg file. That only seems to work with IJK. If I use IJK for online content it stops playing after a few seconds. And correct, I am talking about playing online content directly, not with playon. Youtube is one of them but I also added a few video podcasts. I see the same behavior with all of the ones I tested so far.

I have not changed any of the settings for IJK, such as disable hardware decoders. My TV is not 4K so I would assume it does not have the 4K version of the fire tv built in. I have another fire tv stick (the first generation) which does play SageTV recordings just fine as well. It is not as good as a full SageTV client but for a secondary TV it is okay to me.

This is very odd to me. I wonder if it has something to do with your OTA streams locally (bitrate or something?). I've tried just about every combo with the MiniClient on my non-4K Fire stick and can't get any video to play, only audio. I've also now found, with every setting I try on that stick, that Sage-converted recordings in MKV format are "squishing down" as I mentioned in a post above, adding black bars at the top and bottom. It won't play anything correctly in 16:9.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by celena

how do i get it on firestick 4k?

Add it from the Amazon App Store. It's there. Look for Sage MiniClient.

[tvmaster2]

I just installed the Miniclient on a new Amazon Firestick from the Amazon App Store. Question: how do you search for videos whilst inside Sage interface? The Firestick search window opens on top of the miniclient’s search window, and while you can barely see that the info is being input in the background, when you hit “next”, the search results disappear. Anyone get this working?

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Jackass

Of course just after I post this I find the links to the Amazon developer pages that states that a Fire TV Stick Gen 2 has hardware MPEG-2 support. I need to go sit down and compare my settings between my various devices to confirm I haven't mixed up my Gen1 vs Gen2 sticks.

I need to just throw my Gen1 sticks in the trash...they are pretty much annoying and useless at this point since they are just so slow overall.

all things being equal, is the current 4k Firestick dramatically better as a Sagetv miniclient host compared to the 1080p Firestick? I don’t watch any 4k material, but does it have more ram for 4k streaming, and if so does that make a difference for Sage app?

[Jackass]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

all things being equal, is the current 4k Firestick dramatically better as a Sagetv miniclient host compared to the 1080p Firestick? I don’t watch any 4k material, but does it have more ram for 4k streaming, and if so does that make a difference for Sage app?

It depends on which 1080p firestick you are comparing to. The Gen1 FireStick does not have nearly enough CPU for it. I am still not converted to my 4k sticks on my primary TV and still using my FireTV Gen2 as my daily driver.

I just happened to sit down today to start setting up and testing my 4k stick on my main TV. It appears to have some quirks of its own and I am still testing various formats and options to see what does and doesn't work.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Jackass

It depends on which 1080p firestick you are comparing to. The Gen1 FireStick does not have nearly enough CPU for it. I am still not converted to my 4k sticks on my primary TV and still using my FireTV Gen2 as my daily driver.

I just happened to sit down today to start setting up and testing my 4k stick on my main TV. It appears to have some quirks of its own and I am still testing various formats and options to see what does and doesn't work.

ok, thanks. I bought a recent 1080 on a Prime Day, but the local Staples was clearing put the recent 4K Firesticks for $25, do I bought one as well. Haven’t tested yet, but the 1080 definitely locks up often.

[Jackass]

Locks up? As in the entire thing does? Or video just stops playing? If you can confirm the model number of yours I can see if I have one of those laying around still and see what settings I had on there. I am "pretty sure" I had to go in and manually disable the hardware MPEG-2 decoder in Sage to make it work on those.

As of today, I have a FireTV Gen2 (the square box) as my daily and two 4k sticks for some less used TVs. It is very stable on my FireTV, but MPEG2 is just a tad sluggish. I am fighting with certain formats/features on the 4k and am still working through various settings to find the trade offs. I'm trying to test and document my settings on both setups this week hopefully.

If I can't get the 4k sticks stable, it will be my final push to move to Plex, Kodi, or something else finally. I have been toying with the Silicon Dust app lately as a DVR, but it doesn't solve for my limited need for local media. I really don't want to re-platform...I have been a Sage user since the 2008'ish time frame and really do like the features. However I am also an iPhone user which severely limits my ability to utilize Sage.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by Jackass

Locks up? As in the entire thing does? Or video just stops playing? If you can confirm the model number of yours I can see if I have one of those laying around still and see what settings I had on there. I am "pretty sure" I had to go in and manually disable the hardware MPEG-2 decoder in Sage to make it work on those.

As of today, I have a FireTV Gen2 (the square box) as my daily and two 4k sticks for some less used TVs. It is very stable on my FireTV, but MPEG2 is just a tad sluggish. I am fighting with certain formats/features on the 4k and am still working through various settings to find the trade offs. I'm trying to test and document my settings on both setups this week hopefully.

If I can't get the 4k sticks stable, it will be my final push to move to Plex, Kodi, or something else finally. I have been toying with the Silicon Dust app lately as a DVR, but it doesn't solve for my limited need for local media. I really don't want to re-platform...I have been a Sage user since the 2008'ish time frame and really do like the features. However I am also an iPhone user which severely limits my ability to utilize Sage.

I'm in the same boat as you (except not using Apple stuff). As evidenced here (in another thread covering this same topic):
https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65974
I've sorta given up for a while until something changes - which is more likely to be my kids getting older and more tech-savvy than any cheap device being able to smoothly play OTA MPEG-2 recordings.

[Jackass]

I have two live TV options on all TVs across the house:

1.) Switch input back to ANT and just watch real live TV (gasp!)
- we have coax run to every room in the house with a distro amp from the main outside antenna

2.) Use the HD HomeRun App on the FireSticks
- the interface isn't perfect, but it works for the most part
- this is another DVR option I may investigate...however that doesn't solve my local media playing
- this is only a "decent" option since adding in a more recent device (my older three Dual tuners didn't do the neato stuff like the newer Quad tuner does)

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Jackass

I have two live TV options on all TVs across the house:

1.) Switch input back to ANT and just watch real live TV (gasp!)
- we have coax run to every room in the house with a distro amp from the main outside antenna

2.) Use the HD HomeRun App on the FireSticks
- the interface isn't perfect, but it works for the most part
- this is another DVR option I may investigate...however that doesn't solve my local media playing
- this is only a "decent" option since adding in a more recent device (my older three Dual tuners didn't do the neato stuff like the newer Quad tuner does)

My ‘lockups’ tend to occur when fast-forwarding recorded or live material. When I say ‘live’, I mean a currently live program which has been paused, and then I FF to catch up.