ATSC 3.0 and HDHR

[pjpjpjpj]

I admittedly don't watch much "live" TV anymore but this morning watching the local news they said that at 10 am this morning people using antennas need to do a scan because they are moving their signal to a new frequency for "Next Gen TV" (ATSC 3.0). I used to closely follow this stuff and read multiple forums (this and local antenna TV and others) but I have been less than sporadic for a while.

So I'm frantically searching around this morning and there is very little info out there about what this channel is doing... but best I can tell, they won't be broadcasting in 3.0, they are just switching frequencies because eventually they will. I'm sure they aren't moving to 3.0 broadcasting (and from what I've found this morning, most major networks aren't producing content yet) since it would require everyone on antennas to buy new hardware (right?). Are there websites tracking the move so I can confirm this?

I use a couple of older-model dual-tuner HDHRs. I'm assuming I won't need to do anything yet and will get plenty of warning when broadcasts begin to switch?

[emveepee]

You will need a new device to get ATSC 3.0 but the ATSC transition will be long.

Martin

[wayner]

One place to get some info is the HDHR ATSC 3.0 subforum at https://forum.silicondust.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=133

So far there isn't going to be a big transition like there was in the move from NTSC to ATSC. The FCC is not giving broadcasters additional frequencies so right now they are having to rejig things to make it work, hence the changes that you mentioned. And it doesn't appear that new TVs, or at least not many of them, have ATSC 3.0 tuners. Of course for SageTV we need a tuning device that works with SageTV that can use ATSC 3.0.

The biggest benefit for us with ATSC 3.0 will be 4K broadcast TV. There is a new HDHR tuner that can pull in these channels but I don't know if anyone has them working in SageTV yet, but people do have 4K playback working so it should be doable, assuming that SageTV recognizes the tuners. Apparently some of the current 4K content is actually upscaled 1080 or 720 content, so the benefit may not be that big.

There also could be some downsides to ATSC 3.0 - I think it includes stuff like DRM.

[sic0048]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

.... best I can tell, they won't be broadcasting in 3.0, they are just switching frequencies because eventually they will.

That's correct. Odds are they are just shifting around their current transmission frequency - something that has been going on for the past several years for various reasons (FCC sold lots of frequency bands for example). Even after they start transmitting on ATSC 3.0 they will still be broadcasting on the older ATSC 1.0 format for a long time.

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

.... since it would require everyone on antennas to buy new hardware (right?).

TV stations will be transmitting 3.0 in the same frequency ranges that your antenna already picks up so you don't need to buy a new antenna, but you do need a new ATSC compatible turner. Some of the new TVs are starting to have these tuners built-in, but for the most part people will probably need to get an external tuner initially to watch 3.0 broadcasts. Eventually every TV sold will have a 3.0 tuner and eventually everyone will replace their older TVs with TVs that already have the tuner installed. That process might take decades however which is why the TV stations will continue to broadcast in 1.0 for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Are there websites tracking the move so I can confirm this?

https://www.atsc.org/ is another source of information. Their "Spotlight on 3.0" section of the website has a lot of good information including a rollout map that is kept up to date pretty well.

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

I use a couple of older-model dual-tuner HDHRs. I'm assuming I won't need to do anything yet and will get plenty of warning when broadcasts begin to switch?

The older HDHRs don't have a ATSC 3.0 tuner in them, so they won't be able to view/record the new 3.0 broadcasts. SiliconDust does offer a couple 3.0 external tuners now (all the HDHR tuner with 4k in the name), but it doesn't work with SageTV yet. Of course you can continue to use your older tuners with the 1.0 broadcasts until they go away which won't happen for a long time.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by sic0048

The older HDHRs don't have a ATSC 3.0 tuner in them, so they won't be able to view/record the new 3.0 broadcasts. SiliconDust does offer a 3.0 external tuner now, but it doesn't work with SageTV yet. Of course you can continue to use your older tuners with the 2.0 broadcasts until they go away which won't happen for a long time.

Has anyone tried to see if the HDHR Connect/Flex 4K works with SageTV? And I wonder if someone can try to get it working, I would hope that it shouldn't be too hard.

[CptKirk]

Looks like NPlayer tried already (post 25)

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=25

Does not work on MiniClient or HD300. Blank screen no video/audio.... as expected.

[pjpjpjpj]

Thanks, all, that is what I suspected.

Soooooo..... here's the weird thing. I did not rescan and I am still getting the channel just fine. Their website still says "9/14 at 10 am" and the little video explanation indicates they would indeed start broadcasting 3.0 on the previous frequency (with 1.0 moving to a new frequency, hence the need to rescan).
https://local12.com/news/local/do-yo...ntucky-indiana

In fact, the website shared above (thanks!) has this story, that apparently all my locals did the switch yesterday...
https://www.atsc.org/news/major-broa...cincinnati-oh/
But I have watched 2 of the 5 listed since 10 am yesterday and they still worked on the previous frequencies.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by CptKirk

Looks like NPlayer tried already (post 25)

https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=25

You wouldn't expect a 4K file to work in extenders, at least not without transcoding. In theory it could work in SageTV client or AndroidTV with the correct setup.

But the thing I am wondering about right now is can you setup the 4K tuners in in SageTV, tune channels and will SageTV capture a file?

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by wayner

You wouldn't expect a 4K file to work in extenders, at least not without transcoding. In theory it could work in SageTV client or AndroidTV with the correct setup.

But the thing I am wondering about right now is can you setup the 4K tuners in in SageTV, tune channels and will SageTV capture a file?

It depends I use OPENDCT and I am not sure if the built in FFMPEG is able to capture ac-4 audio.... which I doubt as it is pretty old.

[wayner]

This seems to be an issue with Plex as well: https://forums.plex.tv/t/for-atsc-3-...audio/647770/6

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by wayner

This seems to be an issue with Plex as well: https://forums.plex.tv/t/for-atsc-3-...audio/647770/6

EMBY beta works great the quality is outstanding and also the sound.
Channels DVR works but sound is very low.
HDHomeRun app of course works.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

EMBY beta works great the quality is outstanding and also the sound.
Channels DVR works but sound is very low.
HDHomeRun app of course works.

How many ATSC 3.0 channels do you get and how much content is actually 4K, if you can tell? And where are you located?

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by wayner

How many ATSC 3.0 channels do you get and how much content is actually 4K, if you can tell? And where are you located?

All the Major networks broadcast in ATSC 3.0 in addition to the old standard. No 4K yet. Portland Or.

[pknowles]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

EMBY beta works great the quality is outstanding and also the sound.
Channels DVR works but sound is very low.
HDHomeRun app of course works.

So any extra info on using HDHR 4K with Sage? I don't mind fiddling and I watch shows directly from my server. Just want to know that Sage can communicate with the HDHR 4K? Thanks.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by pknowles

So any extra info on using HDHR 4K with Sage? I don't mind fiddling and I watch shows directly from my server. Just want to know that Sage can communicate with the HDHR 4K? Thanks.

Last I tried this it did not work ... you would have to ask one of the people that are still developing SageTV ...

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by pknowles

So any extra info on using HDHR 4K with Sage? I don't mind fiddling and I watch shows directly from my server. Just want to know that Sage can communicate with the HDHR 4K? Thanks.

I can't speak to native SageTV support, but I have OpenDCT between the HDHR 4K and SageTV and it works, at least for 1080 and lower resolutions. I am unable to try it for 4K content, so I have no idea if 4K works or not.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

I can't speak to native SageTV support, but I have OpenDCT between the HDHR 4K and SageTV and it works, at least for 1080 and lower resolutions. I am unable to try it for 4K content, so I have no idea if 4K works or not.

When you say it works does it work for channels 102-1 etc... which have the new sound codec ?

I know it works for regular broadcasts like 2-1 etc... OpenDCT does not support the new audio so it will not work. Dolby AC-4

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

When you say it works does it work for channels 102-1 etc... which have the new sound codec ?

I know it works for regular broadcasts like 2-1 etc... OpenDCT does not support the new audio so it will not work. Dolby AC-4

Experimenting a bit, my 2-1 corresponds to physical channel 7-2-1. If I change it to 7-102-1 (not sure if this is even correct), the channel preview is unsuccessful.

All of the channels that I have mapped are in the regular broadcast format. Which for me, right now, is totally fine. As I mentioned before, I don't really have any equipment that can handle 4K at this point. And to be honest, I feel like 90% of the content on TV probably does not benefit from 4K anyhow.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Experimenting a bit, my 2-1 corresponds to physical channel 7-2-1. If I change it to 7-102-1 (not sure if this is even correct), the channel preview is unsuccessful.

All of the channels that I have mapped are in the regular broadcast format. Which for me, right now, is totally fine. As I mentioned before, I don't really have any equipment that can handle 4K at this point. And to be honest, I feel like 90% of the content on TV probably does not benefit from 4K anyhow.

Yeah I tried the same thing didn't work... The problem is that OPENDCT needs to be updated to FFMPEG 4. It is not 4k now but you get 7.1 Audio and the picture is outstanding. Watching football on these channels is great.

SAGETV has to be able to decode HEVC and AC-4 which I believe it doesn't even without using opendct.