FFDShow For Beginners

[wad06]

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I assure you that I've searched the forums, and to be honest, I've read a lot of posts. I've even gone back and forth with justme, and we decided a thread about this would be a good idea (maybe something to be added to the faq or converted to a guide). So, here goes.

After building my HTPC and getting things set up with ZoomPlayer using Sonic Filters and FFDShow, I've decided to get a PVR-250MCE and use Sage for some recording.

My problem is simple, how do I setup Sage to use Sonic Filters and FFDShow postprocessing? All of the threads I've read on this forum seem to assume that knowledge and then go on to talk about the ins and outs of FFDShow. So, I was wondering if anyone out there minded giving a little blurb on the setup (by this, I mean the registry tweaks, the enabling of FFDShow, and the enabling of the Sonic Filters for use with FFDShow).

For the sake of the Faq (if the steps are different), the more broad question is, what are the necessary steps to choose any decoder and postprocess with FFDShow?

My Relevant Specs are:
P4 2.4c at 3.42
512 MB Corsair XL series
Asus P4P800-E Deluxe
NEC 2510
PVR-250MCE
ATI 9600xt

Thanks in advance,
Wad

[stanger89]

OK so you've got the Sonic decoders setup to work with ffdshow, that's probably the "hard" part (registry diving, ffdshow settings, etc.). For Sage you have two options:

1) Set the Video Renderer to Default, which should cause ffdshow to load

or

2) Select ffdshow as your video decoder.

Personally I like 2 better since you can still specify Video Renderer (Overlay, VMR9).

Doing either of those should get ffdshow loaded with Sage. FWIW, I'm not aware of any other post-processors out there.

[wad06]

If I set it to default, it will automatically choose Sonic decoder?

The only reason I ask is because, in search of the best PQ for DVD's, I bought and installed PowerDVD, WinDVD, and Sonic. I wasn't a huge fan of PowerDVD, so I never attempted to get FFDShow to work there, but I did get it working with Intervideo and Sonic decoders.

With Sage, unlike ZoomPlayer, it seems like you can't specify both a decoder and FFDShow as postprocessor, only one or the other (which I don't get, as FFDShow is not a decoder and should not be able to work as one). I guess this is my dilemna.

Also, when I do select FFDShow in Sage, I don't see the OSD in the corner (which is set to on in FFDShow and I do see in ZoomPlayer). Does this mean it's not really using FFDShow?

So many questions, that's why I was looking for a guide of sorts.

As a side question, is there a way to leave Video Renderer on Default and let Sonic Decoders control which option to use?

Thanks for your quick response,
Wad

[stanger89]

Originally posted by wad06
If I set it to default, it will automatically choose Sonic decoder?

You set what to default? If you set the renderer to default then whatever decoder you have selected will still be used and ffdshow should load itself.

If you set the decoder to default then the system default decoder (usually the last one you installed) will be used, and ffdshow probably won't load.

The only reason I ask is because, in search of the best PQ for DVD's, I bought and installed PowerDVD, WinDVD, and Sonic. I wasn't a huge fan of PowerDVD, so I never attempted to get FFDShow to work there, but I did get it working with Intervideo and Sonic decoders.

With Sage, unlike ZoomPlayer, it seems like you can't specify both a decoder and FFDShow as postprocessor, only one or the other (which I don't get, as FFDShow is not a decoder and should not be able to work as one). I guess this is my dilemna.

Yeah, I'd really like to see an "official" way to select ffdshow instead of using the tricks we've found.

Also, when I do select FFDShow in Sage, I don't see the OSD in the corner (which is set to on in FFDShow and I do see in ZoomPlayer). Does this mean it's not really using FFDShow?

Probably not, one way to make sure would be to check the "Show tray icon" box in ffdshow's Tray & dialog settings

So many questions, that's why I was looking for a guide of sorts.

As a side question, is there a way to leave Video Renderer on Default and let Sonic Decoders control which option to use?

If you set Video Renderer to Default, it will use the Windows default renderer (Overlay on 2000, VMR on XP).

Thanks for your quick response,
Wad

The link in my signature contains some info about tweaking Sage, specifically this page:http://users.mcleodusa.net/r/ratpac/..._contrast.html
has a few screenshots that might illustrate what I've been trying to say better than I've been saying it.

[Kimper]

I also am trying to get sonic decoders and ffdshow working in sage, and having a hard time..

OK so you've got the Sonic decoders setup to work with ffdshow, that's probably the "hard" part (registry diving, ffdshow settings, etc.).

Is the only registry edit?

With sonic you need to add the DWORD AllowAllRenderers=1 to:
HKLM\Software\Sonic\Cinemaster DS DVD\VideoDecoder (may not be spelled exactly correct.)
in the registry

I have plenty of horsepower (new system) AMD 64 3500, 1 gig mem, ati 9800 pro. The sonic codecs are set as default on the system. With video renderer set to default and decoder as ffdshow I can get the OSD to display but as soon as I add even the most modest amount of denoise the video locks and shows cpu usage 100% in the ffdshow OSD. Oddly it seems to play ok when in the little preview menu, but locks when i go full screen.

Weird... I will keep researching here. I must be missing something

I also have the same problem as rwc in the other thread:

With FFDShow set as the decoder, and the overlay, or VRM9 renderer, I get the "ErrCode=0x80040217" error

[stanger89]

Yes, it's just the registry edit.

If you select the video decoder as ffdshow, you shouldn't need to select Default as your Renderer, and if you select default as your renderer you shouldn't need to select ffdshow as the decoder, either one of those should load ffdshow.

Example
Video Decoder - ffdshow MPEG4 video decoder
Video Renderer - Overlay (or VMR9)
or
Video Decoder - Sonic Cinemaster@ DS Video Decoder
Video Renderer - Default

There's a small possibility that by select ffdshow as the decoder and default as the renderer ffdshow is loading twice.

And if you're getting this error:

Unable to connect demultiplexor to specified mpeg2 video decoder input pin errcode=0x80040217

then for some reason Sonic decoders aren't getting loaded.

Try this:

Add the following line to your sage.properties file (it's probably already there, but missing the ffdshow part):
videoframe/additional_video_filters=ffdshow raw video filter,in,out

Then select ffdshow raw video filter as your decoder, and adjust the settings either from the tray icon or from the "Raw-only filter configuration".

If you don't have that, you'll need to get a newer version of ffdshow.

[Kimper]

Thanks Stanger.

I am surprised you don't get a salary for all your valuable input!

I got it working.. somehow.

I was hoping to use it to upconvert/cleanup standard television, but it didn't really help. I would be curious if anyone has found any great settings to fix up standard broadcast TV??
I guess ugly signal in = ugly signal out.

Anyway, off to see what I can do to the DVD's

[wad06]

Alright, I've got FFDShow running (I can see the OSD). But now I have a new problem.

The video stutters a ton. First, I used the exact settings that work smoothly in Zoomplayer - the result was a lot of stuttering. Then, I turned off all FFDShow filters except the DScaler - the result was still a lot of stuttering.

I can't believe that this is a horsepower problem, as I've got my P4 2.4c oc'ed to 3.42. I'm not sure what else to do.

I also get the error whenever I use FFDShow as my filter and VMR9 as the renderer.

Anyway, I'll try the sage properties edit tonight, but any other ideas would be appreciated.

Wad

[stanger89]

Kimper, the best settings I found were Denoise3D .5 .5 1 and unsharp mask 40, roughly.

Wad, what filters are/were you trying to run. Sage recordings are a higher framerate (29.97) than DVDs (23.97) so they require a little more umph.

[wad06]

Stranger,

I tried turning off all FFDShow filters except for the DScaler one recommended in the link in your signature. When I watch live tv, it sticks on a frame with the audio continueing, and then moves to another frame and stays on that, etc.

It got very frustrating last night. Anyway, I'm not sure what else to try.

I'm thinking about formatting my hard drive and starting over, but I want that to be a last resort.

Wad

[stanger89]

You're talking the histogram filter? You shouldn't need that unless you're adjusting the capture settings.

[wad06]

I was using it in your guide to adjust the color, sharpness, and brightness. Can I adjust those things without it?

Wad

by the way, my aol im name is wad06 if it would be easier to do it that way.

[wad06]

Also, thanks a ton for all of the help so far. Your patience is amazing.

[mlbdude]

Originally posted by wad06
Stranger,

I tried turning off all FFDShow filters except for the DScaler one recommended in the link in your signature. When I watch live tv, it sticks on a frame with the audio continueing, and then moves to another frame and stays on that, etc.

It got very frustrating last night. Anyway, I'm not sure what else to try.

I'm thinking about formatting my hard drive and starting over, but I want that to be a last resort.

Wad

Sounds like ffdshow is using a decoder that does not like ffdshow. Get the ffdshow task icon to come up, right click on it. At the top of the pop-up it will tell you what decoder it is using.

You probably have to configure ffdshow to use the task tray, same place as OSD I think.

You have the Raw codec selected in ffdshow as well correct?

[wad06]

I do have raw codec selected in FFDShow.

As to the tray icon, I've never seen it.

Also, I'll check the decoder its using if I get the tray icon working, and if it's not sonic, how do I change it to Sonic?

I'm pretty sure it is using Sonic decoders (when I set renderer to default and video decoder to sonic, the FFDShow osd appears).

Wad

By the way mlbdude, thanks for the help over at HTPCnews.com over the last six months in building and getting ZoomPlayer working with FFDShow. Your posts have been invaluable.

[wad06]

When I got my FFDShow tray icon to appear, about 7 icons showed up in my system tray.

Does this mean that FFDShow is running in seven instances? If so, how do I make it only run once?

Wad

[stanger89]

It could, I've never had that happen though (I don't think). But that would definitely explain poor performance.

First, if you place the mouse over the tray icons do they dissapear (sometimes the tray doesn't clean itself up well).

To limit ffdshow to 1 instance, change the "Mulitple ffdshow instances" in the ffdshow codecs panel.

[wad06]

Turns out it was running seven times. I changed it to only allow 1 instance, and things are running smoothly now.

Thank you very much for all of the help. I've got my PQ in Sage to be as good, if not a little better, than it is without.

Wad