MVP Client 1.3.0 (2005/08/16)

[waynedunham]

I just wanted to add my kudo's to the very impressive pile of them so far!

I just built a new HTPC after giving my old tired machine (P-III-933Mhz, 512mb ram, GeForce2 Video) to a family member.

I've got a PVR-500, and my old PVR-250 in the new machine.(P4-3ghz, 1gb ram, X600 256mb Video)

Downloaded the SageMVP, and Sage Client Beta to go with the Sage Beta I installed.
Set up Sage and got that working with all the tuners. I'm running Cable Tv with no STB so I'm using the internal tuners on the PVR cards. I had to run AMCAP from the Hauppauge disk to get the PVR-500 to "find" the channels, but after that it was fine.

I then set up Sage Client in a different directory and put SageMVP with it. I had the MVP unplugged while I set this part up.

I then turned on the Server in Sage and had to unblock it in XP-SP2's firewall.
Fired up Sage Client and SageMVP and again had to unblock that in XP-SP2's firewall.

Went out to the living room, set my AV Receiver to the MVP and plugged it in. After a short wait there was the Sage interface on my screen

I am seeing the video pushing off the right side of the screen that some people are seeing. I tried unplugging the MVP and reloading, but no dice, it's still doing it. (Or was I supposed to shut down and restart the SageMVP software? Hmmm, I'll have to go re-read the thread)

The only other thing I'm worried about is getting Sage, Sage Client, and Sage MVP to all load and work properly on an unattended reboot of the machine. I've seen some people here with an issue with that. I haven't tried it yet, so I don't know if I'll see it or not. I hope I won't have a problem, but we'll see.

All in all though, I am THRILLED!! It is simply amazing what you have done with this Matt!! You can be expecting a visit from my PayPal account!
I can't wait to see what's next!

Have a cold one on me!!

[White94Cobra]

I almost purchased an MVP today, but held off because of how slow everyone says it is. Is it really that bad? Are we talking 1-2 seconds to display the OSD when video is playing? Is menu navigation 1-2 seconds per button press? Does it take an extra 1-2 seconds per 30 second skip? Questions questions... My fear is the WAF will not be high enough to actually use it instead of the Tivo. Thanks.

[AirJunky]

Originally Posted by White94Cobra

I almost purchased an MVP today, but held off because of how slow everyone says it is. Is it really that bad? Are we talking 1-2 seconds to display the OSD when video is playing? Is menu navigation 1-2 seconds per button press? Does it take an extra 1-2 seconds per 30 second skip? Questions questions... My fear is the WAF will not be high enough to actually use it instead of the Tivo. Thanks.

Haven't had any problem with it & the WAF is very high here. Delay when navigating the menus is 1 or 2 seconds at worst. 30 second skips have zero delay whatsoever.

[JasonJoel]

First off, who says it is 'so slow'?

Second, that question has been answered in this thread.

Typical interface delay for me is ~0.5 seconds. 1 second occasionally.

Video is definitely slower resynching after a FFWD/RWD though. Not a big deal to me as I use COMSKIP, so do very little FFWD and RWD anyway. But if you are the type that likes to hit FFWD/RWD a few times to get through commercials - you will likely not be happy. As that sometimes does take 2 seconds each hit. So if you could just hit FFWD, FFWD, FFWD, RWD to get through a commercial on a PC, there would be noticeable pauses each time you hit the button.

Granted, Matt has done a good job capturing each key press so they aren't lost. Meaning if you hit FFWD, FFWD, FFWD it will usually do all three FFWDs, you just might not get updated/moving video until the third one is complete.

In any case, you can always buy the MVP try it and see if the delays are acceptable to you. It is pretty darn quick and easy to setup these days. If not, return it.

Jason Bottjen

Originally Posted by White94Cobra

I almost purchased an MVP today, but held off because of how slow everyone says it is. Is it really that bad? Are we talking 1-2 seconds to display the OSD when video is playing? Is menu navigation 1-2 seconds per button press? Does it take an extra 1-2 seconds per 30 second skip? Questions questions... My fear is the WAF will not be high enough to actually use it instead of the Tivo. Thanks.

[Cayars]

Hey another thing you can do if the MVP player is next to the computer with a PVR-250 in it is to use the IR program on the computer and put tape over the IR sensor on the MVP.

Then as far as the STV is concerned it can do the quick FFWD, FFWD, FFWD jumps just as it used to do. Quite a bit faster and more like a conventional TV-OUT experience this way.

[AndyS]

It appears that the performance of the MVP is very much affected by the performance of the client PC. I'm running my client on a pretty old machine and response is 1-2 seconds for button-presses, menu-changes (usually substantially more) and FF/REW (even 2.5-min skips).

Andy.

[Cayars]

If you have two computer and they're networked and you want to get an idea what the speed will be like install UltraVNC (probably best for this test) on both computers and then connect to your SageTV machine from the remote and judge the speed yourself.

It will be very, very similar to this as the MVP player users a modified version of VNC.

Carlo

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Cayars

It will be very, very similar to this as the MVP player users a modified version of VNC.

I used RealVNC sometime back and it was slower than the MVP Client. It looked like RealVNC just periodically refresh the SageTV window.

With the MVP Client I can send screen updates immediately to the MVP as they occur and it's the MVPs drawing routines that are relatively slow (but there's potential to optimize).

My three MVP Clients run on a Pentium 4/3GHz/1GB RAM (along SageTV server) and the MVP response times are the same JasonJoel is seeing (~0.5 seconds. 1 second occasionally).

-Matt

[JasonJoel]

I guess I could have add that my server I am running Sage on is an Athlon XP 2700.

It was an Athlon XP 1700, and it was somewhat slower when I was using the slower processor. Although certainly not in the 1-2 second range.

Jason Bottjen

Originally Posted by Matt

I used RealVNC sometime back and it was slower than the MVP Client. It looked like RealVNC just periodically refresh the SageTV window.

With the MVP Client I can send screen updates immediately to the MVP as they occur and it's the MVPs drawing routines that are relatively slow (but there's potential to optimize).

My three MVP Clients run on a Pentium 4/3GHz/1GB RAM (along SageTV server) and the MVP response times are the same JasonJoel is seeing (~0.5 seconds. 1 second occasionally).

-Matt

[Cayars]

Mine is a "tad" slower maybe 1/4 sec and not enough to bother me. Now in the OSD when doing FF/REW it can be a pain.

[waynedunham]

Originally Posted by White94Cobra

I almost purchased an MVP today, but held off because of how slow everyone says it is. Is it really that bad? Are we talking 1-2 seconds to display the OSD when video is playing? Is menu navigation 1-2 seconds per button press? Does it take an extra 1-2 seconds per 30 second skip? Questions questions... My fear is the WAF will not be high enough to actually use it instead of the Tivo. Thanks.

As mentioned it depends on several factors. I just assembled a new CPU setup for the PVR and it works great with the SageMVP. The other night It was recording 2 programs while I was watching a 3rd. The delay in keypresses was 1-2 seconds at most and skips were a tad slower than if it hadn't been recording anything. Very useable though. As a matter of fact I also have 2 ReplayTV's that can stream video from one to the other in a similar process to what Sage and the MVP are doing. The lag I mentioned above was probably even a bit less than when both my Replays are recording and I'm simultaneously viewing a recording from machine B on machine A (or vice-versa).

[Opus4]

That was actually a pretty painless and quick install. So far, everything is working quite well with my MalDude2 STV. Thanks!

I currently have one question though. I searched this thread a bit, but I don't know if I just missed an answer to this: As mentioned in other parts of the thread, I too see that the video is cut off on the right side of the TV screen. It didn't appear that there was an answer to that... is there?

- Andy

[JasonJoel]

Make sure your aspect ratio is set correctly in Sage. MVP only supports viewing in FULL. (that isn't your problem though, the next item is)

Second, IF it gets stretched there is no online fix. It is a bug, pure and simple and happens on all hardware revs of the MVP I have tried (4 different revs). To fix it you must power down the MVP and reboot it. And I mean REMOVE POWER from the device. In fact that is why I have my MVP plugged into a switched outlet on the back of my receiver. Need to reboot, turn stereo off and on.

I wonder if Frey has fixed this for THEIR MVP solution... I still think it is fixable if we had access to the dongle.bin, but I can't prove it. If not then they are going to have a LOT of support questions and pissed off customers. I don't mind rebooting it a few times a week, I doubt non-geeks will accept that though.

Jason Bottjen

Originally Posted by Opus4

That was actually a pretty painless and quick install. So far, everything is working quite well with my MalDude2 STV. Thanks!

I currently have one question though. I searched this thread a bit, but I don't know if I just missed an answer to this: As mentioned in other parts of the thread, I too see that the video is cut off on the right side of the TV screen. It didn't appear that there was an answer to that... is there?

- Andy

[Cayars]

The image looks just fine on my MVP but was "messed up" when I first installed it. It too was way to the right. I went into detailed setup and adjusted it.

Have you guys tried this?

[JasonJoel]

Yeah, you'll know it when you see it. It is a bug.

Sometimes I can watch 3 shows in a row, they look perfect. Then the forth, is stretched off the right side. After a power off and reboot, it works fine on the same recording.

Oh, this happens with the Hauppauge MVP software sometimes as well...

Sometimes it happens once a week, sometimes more, sometimes less. I have noticed it can happen more or less depending on the quality you record in. Although, that MAY have just been coincidence.

Not sure it is a hardware issue per se. Might be software fixable.

Jason Bottjen

Originally Posted by Cayars

The image looks just fine on my MVP but was "messed up" when I first installed it. It too was way to the right. I went into detailed setup and adjusted it.

Have you guys tried this?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by JasonJoel

Second, IF it gets stretched there is no online fix. It is a bug, pure and simple and happens on all hardware revs of the MVP I have tried (4 different revs). To fix it you must power down the MVP and reboot it. And I mean REMOVE POWER from the device.

I had already tried power down - power up last night & nothing changed. Maybe I wasn't supposed to turn it off via the remote first, or does it not fix it every time?

Cayars: what are you talking about in Detailed Setup? Nothing I changed there last night affected the video in any way. I adjusted the UI, of course, but that is separate.

- Andy

[srothwell]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I had already tried power down - power up last night & nothing changed. Maybe I wasn't supposed to turn it off via the remote first, or does it not fix it every time?

Cayars: what are you talking about in Detailed Setup? Nothing I changed there last night affected the video in any way. I adjusted the UI, of course, but that is separate.

- Andy

Andy,

Try unplugging the MVP. Ususally re-loading it's software with a cold boot will fix the problem.

The problem is pixel aspect ratio. TV uses a slightly rectangular pixel instead of a square pixel. If the MVP goes stupid and doesn't account the for 0.9:1 pixel aspect ratio of a TV, then the image will be too wide and slightly stretched and cut off on the right (which is exactly what we see then MVP goes stupid).

Cold-booting MVP will 99% of the time fix the problem.

Stacy

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by srothwell

Try unplugging the MVP. Ususally re-loading it's software with a cold boot will fix the problem.

Yes, I unplugged it, but I had turned it off first & didn't know if that step made any difference regarding why it didn't work for me.

- Andy

[Matt]

The Menu/OSD overscan (size and position) can be configures under Detailed Setup.

With video overscan, I see two things:

1. the MVP always has a bit of overscan and maybe this what Andy is seeing (Andy, do you see this also with the Hauppauge software?). It's really hardly noticeable with regular TV programs. Couldn't tell whether there is more overscan on left or right (or top and bottom for that matter).

2. the MVP sometimes enters a "horizontal stretch mode" where the video is quite a bit stretched horizontally. This can only be fixed with a real power down as Jason mentioned (green power button on remote is not enough).

I now have one quite reproducible case where this happens. Technically, it's the state change play -> pause -> stop -> play, where the play comes closely after the stop. Since STVs enter the pause state quite often even without explict pause command, this can happen in many places. The scenario where I can reproduce the problem sometimes is this:

- watch show
- go (back) to info page while show is still playing (the STVs pause here)
- delete show (will implicitly do a stop)
- immediately start watching another show -> here the problem occurs

I have added some logic to detect this scenario and act on it, but I can't make it really robust because the problem is in the MVP. I hope Hauppauge will help resolving this issue after CES.

-Matt

[Opus4]

Matt: I only loaded the Hauppauge software long enough to make sure the thing connected & worked before installing this plugin, so I didn't play any videos. Maybe I'll try that sometime. The video overscan that I'm talking about is what was mentioned quite far back in the thread (must be what you called "horizontal stretch mode"): the station logo is right up againt the right edge of the screen, while it is further from the edge on my other TV. All the other edges seem fine.

Anyway, for now I'm getting the point that it is just going to happen & for some reason, a power cycle doesn't seem to change it for me. I think I can live with it for now, since this TV isn't for 'critical' viewing. Like you said, though: maybe Hauppage will help resolve this in the future.

- Andy