Will sage support the no copy option that HBO is implementing?

[AJ Bertelson]

I know that SHS mentioned that MCE2k5 has the support for this option but I wonder if it will become a industry standard?

For instance, HBO says it plans to introduce in June a copy-protection technology that will restrict viewers to only one digital copy of its regular shows -- and no copies of its on-demand programs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6590519/

[kny3twalker]

we do not have to worry about this since we use analogue outputs from our digital cable/satellite boxes
and I doubt Frey would do this
and if they did I could see a quick downgrade and search for another option

[littlerm]

I use MCE2005 with a PVR-250 and analog output from a DirecTV receiver and the recorded content (from HBO only) is DRM-protected, which means you cannot burn it to DVD or play it on another computer. So it can be done through analog outputs, but is probably handled through the epg information instead of the video stream.

P.S. The only reason I use MCE is because of HDTV recording through an HDTV Wonder.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by littlerm

I use MCE2005 with a PVR-250 and analog output from a DirecTV receiver and the recorded content (from HBO only) is DRM-protected, which means you cannot burn it to DVD or play it on another computer. So it can be done through analog outputs, but is probably handled through the epg information instead of the video stream.

P.S. The only reason I use MCE is because of HDTV recording through an HDTV Wonder.

I also found this to be true with a Toshiba DVR recording HBO and CineMAX. You can record but only to HardDrive or DVD-RAM. Which is why I switched to SageTV and now I know I will never switch to MCE2K5. Thanks for the info.

BobP.

[korben_dallas]

What format of files does MCE2k5 use for the protected content? WMV? DVD-VR?

Sooner or later someone will come up with a ripper for it, since WMP10 can already display non-protected HD content.

[stanger89]

I'm still baffled by how that actually works, unless it's part of the guide data and the whole "Analog copy protection" thing is a bluff of sorts.

[kny3twalker]

well everything recorded by MCE is DRMed
so yes it would be something that MCE does to protect the content
I would not even need to use the guide
just anything with HBO, showtime, Cinemax, etc
would have this limitation
although we use analogue inputs
we are still putting the content back into digital form
so they are able to start manipulating what we can do again with our digital content

I mentioned this above about what would happen to SageTV
anyways the way things are going
I can really see BeyondTV trying something before Sage

[stanger89]

I understand how DRM works on digital files, but HBO has claimed that they are copy-protecting the analog output of STBs, such that they can only be recorded once. That is what I can't figure out, what can be put in the analog output of an STB that will allow it to be recorded only once?

-Of course I do see a, rather hidden, referrence to "compliant digital recording devices" so it looks kind of like the BF in that if the recording device must support this. It's probably something encoded into the extra lines like CC are.

As for the future and DRM. What I'm beginning to see is a future with NGSCB computers and CableCard compliant PC TV cards. Haven't figured out if it's a good thing or a bad one.

[stanger89]

Of course the more I look, the more confused I get

Originally Posted by http://www.hbo.com/corpinfo/cgmsafaq.shtml

I have an analog recorder. I don't even own a computer and have no way to connect to the Internet. I thought HBO's concern was all about digital copies. Why am I restricted from making copies?

These days, it is possible to convert analog programs to digital files. Including CGMS-A in HBO's signals helps insure that digital copies converted from analog will retain the same copyright instructions as content that originates in digital. You will still be able to make a single copy of HBO and Cinemax programming, be it analog or digital. However, you will not be able to make a further duplicate copy, nor will you be able to distribute HBO or Cinemax programming via the Internet.

[kny3twalker]

what is this "NGSCB"?

second time I asked now but getting the idea

[korben_dallas]

Audio channels are an easy way for various entities to include copy protection and/or watermarks in analog content. A repeating pattern, nestled up in the high kHz range not perceivable by the human ear, can be introduced during hardware or software decoding - such as the digital to audio conversion that takes place on the RCA outputs of a DVD-video or DVD-audio player. If you are recording the audio to analog cassette tape, then you have nothing to worry about. But if you send it to your sound card line in or PVR inputs, the watermark is carried along with the signal into the analog to digital conversion. Then it is just a matter of what hardware or software you are using. The sound card could be programmed to detect it and shut down the signal completely. Or your recording software could detect it and make it all jibberish. Or the watermark could be designed in such a way as to really mess with mpeg encoding, and you end up with a lousy recording.

This isn't a new idea. Early VCRs had dubbing protection schemes, though maybe not as advanced as todays methods.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

The sound card could be programmed to detect it and shut down the signal completely.

I guess that's my point, there are ways if the recorder is designed to support them (ie stuff could be thrown into the "unused" video area), but the recorder would have to detect it, and obey it. I don't see how they can add something that will allow a stream to be recorded only once on everyday, non-special devices.

kny,
NGSCB ala GOOGLE