Bad Picture Quality

[Outvit]

Hello.

I recently bought a WinTV PVR-500MCE and plugged it in and I'm not getting the desired video quality. I have a high quality 8ft S-Video cable going directly from my digital cable box to my PVR-500MCE. I'm including some screenshots to show you the picture quality...it's pretty bad if you ask me. I originally bought this card because I was absolutely impressed with the image quality that was being shown by a PVR-250MCE compared to a PVR-500MCE.
You can especially notice the drop in quality around the logos of TV networks. And on peoples faces. I just want to see it get better. I’d love to improve the picture quality. Please, any ideas.

[korben_dallas]

The pix don't look that bad if you ask me

From personal experience, you will definitely notice artifacts and difficult encoding passages much more on your LCD than on your TV.

Also, what recording quality are you using? Try DVD Standard Play if you aren't already using it.

[mayamaniac]

are those played through Sage interface or another media player? And what video decoder are you using if its in Sage? Overlay or VMR9? Have you try playing it back from a PowerDVD or WinDVD?

[Outvit]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

The pix don't look that bad if you ask me

From personal experience, you will definitely notice artifacts and difficult encoding passages much more on your LCD than on your TV.

Also, what recording quality are you using? Try DVD Standard Play if you aren't already using it.

I am using DirectX9 Video Mixing Renderer (VMR9). I will try Overlay.

My quality is set at the defaults...which I guess is great.

[Outvit]

It appears I cannot take screenshots with Overlay enabled...all video output is black on the screenshot.

But it appears identical onscreen, except for the fact that menus are transparent.

Overlay mode uses the same amount of CPU...13-25%. But 60+ MB less RAM.

[mayamaniac]

from my experience, the picture quality within SageTV is not as good as if were to play the same video with PowerDVD, eventhough I'm using the same Cyberlink decoder in SageTV. I'm not sure how PowerDVD achieves better quality, but I played with all the Sage settings but cannot reproduce the same picture quality in SageTV.

But my point is that maybe the recordings are good quality and there's nothing wrong with the 500MCE. But its just that SageTV is doing a poor job in playing it back.

[Outvit]

Yah, the quality did pickup in PowerDVD 6, but I wonder why the playback engine in SageTV is the cause of this problem. The quality is pretty bad when comparing it to my TV or even a regular DVD movie. I realize Sage is constantly recording what I watch in case I decide to keep it, but that should not slash quality so noticeably.

I also have nVIDIA DVD Decoder (latest version). I get the same quality problems when using what SageTV labels as the "NVIDIA Video Decoder." Not to mention when I even attempt to use the option called "NVIDIA Video Post Processor" the program just spits out video errors, etc... So my only option is really "Default" or "Cyberlink Video/SP Decoder." Kind of annoying, but it works.

I also see absolutely no difference between using "Overlay" or "VMR9" for my "Video Renderer." No performance hits that anyone else speaks of. I'm not sure what option to use.

[nielm]

Advanced->3d accelleration should be set to enabled, otherwise VMR9 will not be used.
-- You should see a difference between VMR9 and Overlay, if only in the semi-transparent OSD!
You could also try the 'default' renderer (on XP this is different to VMR9 and Overlay)

[Outvit]

3D Acceleration is enabled. I don't see any difference between Overlay and VMR9 except the transparent menus which I said originally I had seen. Otherwise there are no quality differences. The only difference is I can take screen captures of the VMR9 mode but not overlay. I assume that is because Overlay is rendered by my GPU rather than CPU. But again, no gain or loss in video quality. I want a gain.

[kny3twalker]

you really cannot see a difference between overlay and VMR9 rendering????

what kind of TV is this and how are you connected from the PC to the TV?

[SHS]

Outvit you need upload a MPEG clip to ftp.shspvr.com/incoming/ folder just up any file say around then stop upload around 30 to 50MB and I all look at it.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

you really cannot see a difference between overlay and VMR9 rendering????
what kind of TV is this and how are you connected from the PC to the TV?

I dont think a TV is involved at all, he's complaining about what he sees on his computer screen through SageTV. And like I said earlier in my previous posts, I also cannot reproduce the same quality in SageTV that I see in PowerDVD. The Nvidia decoder doesn't really produce better picture quality, its main benefit is that it's less taxing on the CPU.

[Outvit]

Originally Posted by SHS

Outvit you need upload a MPEG clip to ftp.shspvr.com/incoming/ folder just up any file say around then stop upload around 30 to 50MB and I all look at it.

I uploaded a partial MPEG clip of something I recorded from The Science Channel last night. I generally upload in excess of 60-75 KB /sec. But I did not see the file in the directory when I cancelled. I tried to re-upload but I guess you give upload rights but no directory listing rights. So, either the file is there and I can't see it or something more weird is going on.

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I dont think a TV is involved at all, he's complaining about what he sees on his computer screen through SageTV. And like I said earlier in my previous posts, I also cannot reproduce the same quality in SageTV that I see in PowerDVD. The Nvidia decoder doesn't really produce better picture quality, its main benefit is that it's less taxing on the CPU.

Yah. It's like I said above. I wish Sage could improve upon that. But the quality in PowerDVD still seems pretty bad to just watching TV without SageTV in the loop at all on one of my TVs.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by Outvit

Yah. It's like I said above. I wish Sage could improve upon that. But the quality in PowerDVD still seems pretty bad to just watching TV without SageTV in the loop at all on one of my TVs.

Increase the recording quality settings to DVD Standard Play or something better, I think by default, its on DVD Long Play. As for comparing th quality between the TV and the Computer monitor, it will always seem better on the TV as it properly interlaced the video, while you can see the interlaced lines on the monitor along withe scaling effect as your computer does not run on standard TV resolution. There are ways to tweak the computers to produce better quality, but I'll let someone else tell you how as I'm no expert in it. But I dont think there's a quality issue with the PVR-500MCE, which is your original concern.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

from my experience, the picture quality within SageTV is not as good as if were to play the same video with PowerDVD, eventhough I'm using the same Cyberlink decoder in SageTV. I'm not sure how PowerDVD achieves better quality, but I played with all the Sage settings but cannot reproduce the same picture quality in SageTV.

Does PowerDVD have any of the gimics enabled? Like EagleVision etc? If so it will affect the picture quality.

Also what video card do you have? DXVA enabled?

To the OP,

There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with your captures, they appear clean, at approx the correct levels, no apparent macroblocking. They are somewhat soft, but you can only do so much with a 720x480 picture, especially on a monitor.

-edit

I looked again (different monitor) and...

1) SpikeTV is a bastard, they seem to have their video and overlay fields inverted, at least for me. I often see jaggies on Spike (although less with the new nVidia stuff)

2) I do see some deinterlacing problems, what video card are you using? Are you using DXVA?

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Does PowerDVD have any of the gimics enabled? Like EagleVision etc? If so it will affect the picture quality.

Also what video card do you have? DXVA enabled?

Geforce 440 MX, 64M and DXVA enabed. But assuming you don't have PQ problem, better questions are:

-What video card are you using?
-What software decoders, DXVA, and Fields settings are you using?
-Any other tweaks you are using?

Then me and Outvit here will try to match what you are doing and see if the picture quality is any better.

[stanger89]

I'm running:

Geforce 6800 66.93 drivers
nVidia 1.00.67 decoders
DXVA mode
Smart deinterlace control
VMR Pixel Adaptive deinterlacing.
VMR9

I know the 440MX supports DXVA, but I don't think it support smart control or pixel adaptive deinterlacing, not even sure if/how VMR9 works since that card is a DX8 card IIRC.

[Outvit]

Originally Posted by stanger89

1) SpikeTV is a bastard, they seem to have their video and overlay fields inverted, at least for me. I often see jaggies on Spike (although less with the new nVidia stuff)

2) I do see some deinterlacing problems, what video card are you using? Are you using DXVA?

Answering #1:
It happens on other channels too. I like to have vivid quality.

Answering #2:
Radeon 9700 Pro running Catalyst 5.1 drivers. It plays HL2 at max settings wonderfully...so it can handle whatever SageTV can throw at it. LOL.


I'm using "DVD Standard Play."

[mayamaniac]

no problems, I have a Geforce 6600 on the main PVR amchine which is fully supports DX9. The 440MX is on my dell laptop.

Smart deinterlace control, what is this and how do I go about using it? Same goes for the other settings you mentioned. I'm looking for SageTV specific settings.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

no problems, I have a Geforce 6600 on the main PVR amchine which is fully supports DX9. The 440MX is on my dell laptop.

Smart deinterlace control, what is this and how do I go about using it? Same goes for the other settings you mentioned. I'm looking for SageTV specific settings.

Those are nVidia specific, in Sage it's just nVidia Video Decoder as the decoder, VMR9 and everything else is default.