Have some questions about SAGE Tv

[nerys]

Ok I am seriously considering buying this in fact if I get a positive responce on ability to record direct to mpeg1 I WILL be buying this (my searches in this forum lead me to believe I CAN record mpeg1 albiet with PITA modifications I am awaiting an official yes before I dive in)

in the mean time I have some questions.

How STABLE is sage tv ? can I leave it running for a week without worrying if its working or not ?

Program guide data. is there a PC sized varient of this ? most of the screens I have seen use nasty pain in the royal you know what TV friendly interfaces

This is annoying and aggravating to me. I want a HUGE high resolution massively populated program guide where I can see 5+ hours of programming at a time !!!!

I do not want to have to constantly be scrolling left right up and down to see a nights worth of programming.

I work in 1280x1024 minimum resolution. I want a grid 6+ hours wide with FULL show titles and and at last 20+ channels high. this means large massive high resoloution small font grid. I will NEVER be doing this programming FROM a tv screen so I want to do it quickly and easily with minimum fuss. this means no fighting tv friendlu interfaces.

Does sage tv have this option ?

Does sage TV do Season Pass kind of stuff ?

Ie can I tell it record Star Trek Enterprise but only record NEW episodes and NEVER have to ask it to do that again ie it will just do it (like tivo does)

if there is a CONFLICT will it AUTOMATICALLY utilize the other tuners (plan to have 3 I have a pvr250 and plan to buy the mce500 card to go with it) without any input from me ?

also if by some freak of nature even with 3 or 4 tuners I get a conflict (say 4 or 5 shows on at the same time) is this program smart enough to resolve this with a later showing ? (example sci fi 4 program run on friday is always run twice. same with pretty much any discovery channel show ?

Viewing is a non issue I view from my TV's using media mvp's or my portable players or just access the files over the network from any other computer in the house. I never really watch FROM the recording pc.

while on hardware will that combo play nice together ? (retail pvr 250 and the new mce 500 dual tuner card) ?

will I have any problem later removing the pvr250 and dropping in another mce 500 for a total of 4 tuners ?

When it records the files will it NAME them like the wintv2k names them now ? ie show name followed by the date and time example

American_Choppers_0126_0300.mpg is what I get now and is what I desire !

will sage tv do this ?

I have no intention of EVER using sage tv for anything put PICKING my programs to record and then letting it record them I will NEVER play them back in sage tv.

I already have my programs processes and methods in place to VIEW them

How STABLE has sage TV been (it will NOT alter my decision to buy if it supports mpeg1 since sage tv is my ONLY choice if it can do mpeg1 since its the ONLY multi tuner pvr software I can find that does mpeg1 so HONEST answers to this please)

How often does it crash ? not record a show for whatever reason Lock up etc.. ?

the reason I do not mess with my station now is I have the pvr250 with its software 99% stable. it might miss 1 in 100 program scheduling due to a crash and it has NEVER hard crashed ie if it glitched and missed one it would always be ready for the NEXT recording.

the ati crashes all the time or drops so many frames that its unwatchable but it kind of plays nice with the pvr 250 and gives me dual tuner ability (I managed to make a wonder ve play nice with the pvr 250 but only if the wonder ve opens FIRST and then the wintv2k opens second :-) it wont load the other way around :-) hehehe

the drop frames are likely that it just uses a software encoder and this is only a 1.7ghz celery so its not a powerhouse ?

any KNOWN conflicts with sage tv and other software ? (such as seti@home etc...)

Thanks !!

I really appreciate any answers you guys can supply.

Snapstreams solution was a total non starter as it has no mpeg1 support and thats mandatory for my usage :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[g808]

How STABLE is sage tv ? can I leave it running for a week without worrying if its working or not ?

This will vary, but if you have a stable PC, then Sage should be rock solid. Sage (v2.0.20) has not crashed on me, and I've only stopped it to upgrade my PC therefore I had to restart it. I've left for a 3 week vacation and it did not crash, and my programming was available when I got back.

I want a grid 6+ hours wide with FULL show titles and and at last 20+ channels high.

I'm not at home now and cannot remember how many hours it will display at a time, but I believe there is a property setting that you can change so Sage will display 'n' number of channels in a single view.

Does sage TV do Season Pass kind of stuff ?

Yes, in Sage it is called "Favorites". You can set it up to record first runs only or both first runs and re-runs. You can also have it record the show only on a certain channel or on all channels it appears on.

if there is a CONFLICT will it AUTOMATICALLY utilize the other tuners (plan to have 3 I have a pvr250 and plan to buy the mce500 card to go with it) without any input from me ?

Yes

also if by some freak of nature even with 3 or 4 tuners I get a conflict (say 4 or 5 shows on at the same time) is this program smart enough to resolve this with a later showing ?

Yes

the drop frames are likely that it just uses a software encoder and this is only a 1.7ghz celery so its not a powerhouse ?

If you're using hardware encoding cards like the PVR150 or PV500, then CPU usage should be fairly low. I record using a Athlon XP 1600+ @ 1GHz, and it's great.

Again, stability will vary from person to person, or should I say from PC to PC. If you have a rock solid PC, then Sage should be rock solid too.

People have been reporting problems since upgrading to 2.1, which Sage is addressing in the latest betas. Other have had no problems upgrading, and even others say a clean install of 2.1 has been fine.

Search the forums, and I'm sure you'll find answers/opinions to your questions.

Good luck!

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by nerys

Ok I am seriously considering buying this in fact if I get a positive responce on ability to record direct to mpeg1 I WILL be buying this (my searches in this forum lead me to believe I CAN record mpeg1 albiet with PITA modifications I am awaiting an official yes before I dive in)

Don't know about recording directly to mpeg1. I record in and playback DVD Standard Quality mpeg2. My system storage about 650hrs cabable.

in the mean time I have some questions.

How STABLE is sage tv ? can I leave it running for a week without worrying if its working or not ?

I put my Sage Server into production end of May04 v2.0 running 24x7 5 tuners playback to 3 Clients. Had one, and only one hiccup until IRRC Nov 04 when I upgraded to v2.1.10. Zero hiccups since then. Total ONE Sage Server hiccup since May04. Seems fairly stable to me.

Program guide data. is there a PC sized varient of this ? most of the screens I have seen use nasty pain in the royal you know what TV friendly interfaces

You can run Sage full screen or Windows screen any size you want.

This is annoying and aggravating to me. I want a HUGE high resolution massively populated program guide where I can see 5+ hours of programming at a time !!!!
I do not want to have to constantly be scrolling left right up and down to see a nights worth of programming.

I work in 1280x1024 minimum resolution. I want a grid 6+ hours wide with FULL show titles and and at last 20+ channels high. this means large massive high resoloution small font grid. I will NEVER be doing this programming FROM a tv screen so I want to do it quickly and easily with minimum fuss. this means no fighting tv friendlu interfaces.

Does sage tv have this option ?

Using one of the custom STV (GUI) you can customize your font sizes. Max TV guide structure STV I use 10 rows by 6 columns. So I guess 10 rows short of your demands for 20. One of the other STVs might go higher I don't know, don't have the need to know.

[quote]Does sage TV do Season Pass kind of stuff ?

Ie can I tell it record Star Trek Enterprise but only record NEW episodes and NEVER have to ask it to do that again ie it will just do it (like tivo does)[quotei]Yup

if there is a CONFLICT will it AUTOMATICALLY utilize the other tuners (plan to have 3 I have a pvr250 and plan to buy the mce500 card to go with it) without any input from me ?

I record up to 5 simultaneously all time, all pre-set Favorites (Think TIVO Season Pass). I never tell Sage what tuner to use.

also if by some freak of nature even with 3 or 4 tuners I get a conflict (say 4 or 5 shows on at the same time) is this program smart enough to resolve this with a later showing ? (example sci fi 4 program run on friday is always run twice. same with pretty much any discovery channel show ?

Yup, looks for anytime any station. Also part of setting up your Favorites is putting them in Hiarchial order for who wins out in a conflict.

Viewing is a non issue I view from my TV's using media mvp's or my portable players or just access the files over the network from any other computer in the house. I never really watch FROM the recording pc.

while on hardware will that combo play nice together ? (retail pvr 250 and the new mce 500 dual tuner card) ?

While I don't have the 500MCE (yet), only have 5 PVR250, I plan on getting one soon. My research says yes or I wouldn't be buying one!

will I have any problem later removing the pvr250 and dropping in another mce 500 for a total of 4 tuners ?

Yes you'll have a problem. You won't remove the PVR250 and add a second 500MCE you'll leave the PVR250 in and add a second 500MCE.

When it records the files will it NAME them like the wintv2k names them now ? ie show name followed by the date and time example

American_Choppers_0126_0300.mpg is what I get now and is what I desire !

will sage tv do this ?

Yup

I have no intention of EVER using sage tv for anything put PICKING my programs to record and then letting it record them I will NEVER play them back in sage tv.

I already have my programs processes and methods in place to VIEW them

How STABLE has sage TV been (it will NOT alter my decision to buy if it supports mpeg1 since sage tv is my ONLY choice if it can do mpeg1 since its the ONLY multi tuner pvr software I can find that does mpeg1 so HONEST answers to this please)

How often does it crash ? not record a show for whatever reason Lock up etc.. ?

the reason I do not mess with my station now is I have the pvr250 with its software 99% stable. it might miss 1 in 100 program scheduling due to a crash and it has NEVER hard crashed ie if it glitched and missed one it would always be ready for the NEXT recording.

the ati crashes all the time or drops so many frames that its unwatchable but it kind of plays nice with the pvr 250 and gives me dual tuner ability (I managed to make a wonder ve play nice with the pvr 250 but only if the wonder ve opens FIRST and then the wintv2k opens second :-) it wont load the other way around :-) hehehe

the drop frames are likely that it just uses a software encoder and this is only a 1.7ghz celery so its not a powerhouse ?

Stability answered above, ROCK SOLID here.

any KNOWN conflicts with sage tv and other software ? (such as seti@home etc...)

Thanks !!

Known that I know of. But then, my Sage Server is a dedicated Sage Server. However, I also have 3 Clients for playback, my main HTPC and mine and Debi's workstations. Never had a software conflict problem yet.

I really appreciate any answers you guys can supply.

Snapstreams solution was a total non starter as it has no mpeg1 support and thats mandatory for my usage :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[mdmint]

PS Find out for yourself. Give Sage a test drive. Download Full Featured SageTV and SageTVClient with 2 weeks try before you buy!

[nerys]

that is a problem as I do not really WANT TO

you see to use sage I have to update my drivers but right now the system is stable

yes I have a complete system backup to restore everything if all hell breaks loose (have had ISSUES with driver updates in the past :-) so I do NOT change anything unless I have to. that is how I got it so stable :-)

either way it would be a hassle and still take several hours and ruin a night of recording if bad things happened

I searched for as much of this as I could and answered most of my questions. these were the questions that I had left over :-)

I have the demo which I was going to try on my laptop (it has a tuner built in) but its an ATI tuner and I am unsure if it will even work. waiting for this weekend where it will be "ok" if it kills the machine for a few hours :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[Opus4]

If you haven't done so already, there is a full PDF manual you can download that will answer almost everything you asked.

- Andy

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by nerys

I have the demo which I was going to try on my laptop (it has a tuner built in) but its an ATI tuner and I am unsure if it will even work. waiting for this weekend where it will be "ok" if it kills the machine for a few hours :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

I highly doubt your Laptop has a hardware endoding tuner which is a requirement not an option with Sage. Did you review the hardware requirements and supported tuners on Sage website?

PS The demo you downloaded isn't really a demo, it's the full version giving you 14 days 100% functionality before requiring entering paid registration key. No later uninstall or new install required since it's already the real deal.

[nielm]

(it will NOT alter my decision to buy if it supports mpeg1 since sage tv is my ONLY choice if it can do mpeg1 since its the ONLY multi tuner pvr software I can find that does mpeg1 so HONEST answers to this please)

Just tried it...
Sage does not support timeshifting in MPEG-1 (VCD) format.

It will record, and it will playback, but you will not be able to view live TV (nor timeshift: pause/FF/REW liveTV) in MPEG1 video, nor watch a program while it is being recorded. (This is probably a limitation of the MPEG1 container format).

Program guide data. is there a PC sized varient of this ? most of the screens I have seen use nasty pain in the royal you know what TV friendly interfaces

Not really. Sage is designed as a set-top-box system, so 10foot UI by default. You can customise the fonts/number of rows/colums shown, but it will still 'feel' odd, and not a standard WIMP interface with scroll bars etc.

My webserver plugin can provide large amouts of program guide info in a web page, but it is not a full interface to Sage's functionality.

[nerys]

thank you verymuch for the very informative replies so far

"So I guess 10 rows short of your demands for 20"

not a deman just a DESIRE :-) if 6 is an hours ie 1 column equals an hous than 10x6 is JUST fine 10 channels 6 hours I am happy as a pig in :-) hehe

"It will record, and it will playback, but you will not be able to view live TV (nor timeshift: pause/FF/REW liveTV) in MPEG1 video, nor watch a program while it is being recorded. (This is probably a limitation of the MPEG1 container format)."

No just a bug in sage tv. every other pvr software (not dual tuner) supports mpeg1 just fine but like I said I can live with this so long as it can record in mpeg1 everything else is unimportant :-) I also have no need to time shift

suggestion to sage tv do what wintv2k does. first it has no problem letting me SEE as it records. this tell sme the mpeg1 issue with sage is a sage problem not an mpeg1 problem second I am betting that when I PAUSE live tv using wintv2k that it is in fact using some form of mpeg2 (it creates a buffer file totall seperate from my recorder files) I tried it just to see what would happen. neat but since I do not view on the server time shifting is unimportant and if cpu is low and I DO want to watch on the server I will just load up seperate player software :-) so I am perfectly ok with this limitation.

sage tv how about makign viewig in mpeg2 and switch to desired mpeg1 and blank the screen as needed when its time to record :-)

the fact that I can record mpeg1 sinches it I WILL be buying thia


-------------------------
Yes you'll have a problem. You won't remove the PVR250 and add a second 500MCE you'll leave the PVR250 in and add a second 500MCE.
------------------------

OK this is important why woul I have a problem and how do I resolve this what you suggest is NOT possible. this machine is a dedicated server machine it was purpose built for this function ie VERY stable VERY small VERY low power Very Quiet

I only have 3 PCI slots. 1 is taken by the video card that leaves 2 so having the PVR250 the PVR 500 and then another PVR 500 is simply not an option

why would I have a problem removing the pvr250 freeing the needed pci slot that would allow me to add another MCE 500 ?

again thankyou VERY much for your VERY informative replies.

I did download the PDF but was no on a machine with PDF reading software at the time :-) (I was at work) I will have an oppurtunity to read it friday night when I get done work :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[salsbst]

Server machines aren't usually low power and quiet. They are usually howling away in closets. It sounds like what you've built is a client, not a server.

[dagar]

You cannot record MPEG-1 via hardware tuners as their CODEC (Coder/Decoder) is typically MPEG-2 (there are some MPEG-4 avail now) and none are MPEG-1. The reason the cheapo tuners can is that their CODEC is totally software based. The HW tuners have speicific ICs to support what they are designed for -- I doubt they are on FPGAs and thus reprogrammable -- haven't heard but SHS is the tuner-shizle :P and would know. It is possible to re-encode the MPEG-2 into MPEG-1 (yuck) but ... just yuck! (Did I mention yuck in there?)

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by nerys

-------------------------
Yes you'll have a problem. You won't remove the PVR250 and add a second 500MCE you'll leave the PVR250 in and add a second 500MCE.
------------------------

OK this is important why woul I have a problem and how do I resolve this what you suggest is NOT possible. this machine is a dedicated server machine it was purpose built for this function ie VERY stable VERY small VERY low power Very Quiet

Did you not note the at the end of my original reply? As in grin. As in irony. As in sarcasm. As in why have only 4 tuners when you could leave in the 250 and have 5 tuners?

I only have 3 PCI slots. 1 is taken by the video card that leaves 2 so having the PVR250 the PVR 500 and then another PVR 500 is simply not an option

Only two available PCI slots for tuners information you didn't give before.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by dagar

You cannot record MPEG-1 via hardware tuners as their CODEC (Coder/Decoder) is typically MPEG-2 (there are some MPEG-4 avail now) and none are MPEG-1.

If you check the Hauppauge site, you will see that the 250 & so on support MPEG-1 encoding.

Actually, this question is answered on the SageTV site here and in the v2.1 manual on p. 168. From the web site:

Can I record in either MPEG1 or MPEG2 formats?
Yes you can, but MPEG1 only supports playback and record, no timeshifting. Here's a link to the configuration page on setting this up.

- Andy

[dagar]

Interesting, that's good to know. (It's still yuck though :P )

[stanger89]

Not to interrupt the love fest , but I've noticed a couple issues you might have trouble with.

Originally Posted by nerys

Ok I am seriously considering buying this in fact if I get a positive responce on ability to record direct to mpeg1 I WILL be buying this (my searches in this forum lead me to believe I CAN record mpeg1 albiet with PITA modifications I am awaiting an official yes before I dive in)

in the mean time I have some questions.

How STABLE is sage tv ? can I leave it running for a week without worrying if its working or not ?

Program guide data. is there a PC sized varient of this ? most of the screens I have seen use nasty pain in the royal you know what TV friendly interfaces

Sage's only interface is the "10-foot" interface, it's adjustable, but that's it.

This is annoying and aggravating to me. I want a HUGE high resolution massively populated program guide where I can see 5+ hours of programming at a time !!!!

I do not want to have to constantly be scrolling left right up and down to see a nights worth of programming.

I work in 1280x1024 minimum resolution. I want a grid 6+ hours wide with FULL show titles and and at last 20+ channels high. this means large massive high resoloution small font grid. I will NEVER be doing this programming FROM a tv screen so I want to do it quickly and easily with minimum fuss. this means no fighting tv friendlu interfaces.

Does sage tv have this option ?

Does sage TV do Season Pass kind of stuff ?

Ie can I tell it record Star Trek Enterprise but only record NEW episodes and NEVER have to ask it to do that again ie it will just do it (like tivo does)

if there is a CONFLICT will it AUTOMATICALLY utilize the other tuners (plan to have 3 I have a pvr250 and plan to buy the mce500 card to go with it) without any input from me ?

also if by some freak of nature even with 3 or 4 tuners I get a conflict (say 4 or 5 shows on at the same time) is this program smart enough to resolve this with a later showing ? (example sci fi 4 program run on friday is always run twice. same with pretty much any discovery channel show ?

Viewing is a non issue I view from my TV's using media mvp's or my portable players or just access the files over the network from any other computer in the house. I never really watch FROM the recording pc.

while on hardware will that combo play nice together ? (retail pvr 250 and the new mce 500 dual tuner card) ?

will I have any problem later removing the pvr250 and dropping in another mce 500 for a total of 4 tuners ?

When it records the files will it NAME them like the wintv2k names them now ? ie show name followed by the date and time example

American_Choppers_0126_0300.mpg is what I get now and is what I desire !

will sage tv do this ?

No, Sage would name it like AmericanChopper_<insert random #>.mpg As was stated above, Sage is designed as an STB/HTPC app, as such it abstracts the management from the user. It's not necessarilly the best choice if you don't use the interface for nearly everything.

I have no intention of EVER using sage tv for anything put PICKING my programs to record and then letting it record them I will NEVER play them back in sage tv.

That could be a problem, you'll be limiting a lot of the functionality, like maintaing the watched/don't like status of shows, automatic disk space management, etc. Not that it won't work, but it's designed to be a completely integrated solution, and if you only use half of it, it will complicate things.

I already have my programs processes and methods in place to VIEW them

How STABLE has sage TV been (it will NOT alter my decision to buy if it supports mpeg1 since sage tv is my ONLY choice if it can do mpeg1 since its the ONLY multi tuner pvr software I can find that does mpeg1 so HONEST answers to this please)

How often does it crash ? not record a show for whatever reason Lock up etc.. ?

For me, about never. The only times it crashes are if I'm screwing with playback stuff, I don't think I've ever had the core crash.

[nerys]

sorry man missed the smily :-)

as for the 10 foot interface although a big negative its a compromise I am more than willing to live with in order to ge reliable multi tuner support

naming. that is "ok" not ideal but ok as long as the name of the program is clear in the file name. I was worried it would be 020393348193.mpg and you would have to use the "software" to see the name

all those other features you list are not relevant to me

I have over 300 hours of capacity at mpeg1 (thats one reason I like mpeg1) so space management is a non issue

I also do not care about like dislike. I do not want it making those kind of decision. I will tell it what to record it will record it is all I want :-)

for my use the job of this software is very simple. just record what I tell you to record do it reliably and give me show names mpeg1 files to mess with. thats it :-) as long as it does that I will be very happy (and it looks like it will this weekend I will back up the system and install it and see how it goes)

as for the server houling in the closet :-) I took a different approach.

I want a reliable rock steady JUST powerful enough to do what I want machine that was quite and relatively maintenance free. the most prone to fail part is the PS so I keep 2 on hand ready to be dropped in. (might upgrade since changing out the PS is not the easiest operation on this case :-)

this machine does a lot. it runs my aol im wireless server machines. runs my bluetooth network runs my ftp server. Distributes my media files through the house. records my tv programs runs seti@home and is my gateway to my network from the outside world. it basically does everything :-)

I work it pretty hard thats why I opted for a 1.7 celery and 400mb of ram (was gonna upgrade that but I should not have to with all hardware encoder cards running ie just the wonder ve needs more horsepower and memory and I plan to ditch that as soon as I get the mce 500)

this system was designed with advice from hauppauge to be hauppauge stable :-) all intel chipsets and ati video.

it has a dvd-r 2x drive (no need for faster for its function and keeps system resources usage low ie can record tv while burning)

it does a good job I just REALLY want multi tuner support hence why I want sage tv :-)

previously I did not even have a monitor hooked up to it no need I just VNC'd in when I need to program it to record stuff

I got an LCD really cheap from work so now it has a monitor :-)

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/

[stanger89]

FWIW, I saw you list MVPs, you should look at the MVP client for Sage.

[nerys]

hmmmm does this replace the software in the MVP ? the biggest problem I have with the MVP interface is that is uses absolutely not wanted THUMBNAILS to represent each video instead of just giving me a list of recording like it does with mp3 this makes it VERY slow :-)

I found the home page for this on streams.ch but very little real information on what it DOES etc.. what does the UI look like (screenies ?) etc..

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by nerys

... the MVP interface ...
I found the home page for this on streams.ch but very little real information on what it DOES etc.. what does the UI look like (screenies ?) etc..

To see what the MVP plugin interface looks like, go look at a screen shot of any of the STVs available. The SageTV UI on the MVP looks the same.

- Andy

[nerys]

so this installs like firmware replacing what is on the MVP now ? yes or no ? and if so can I put it "back" later ?

also I did not see it offhand but just in case I can not find it where can I find these STV's ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.zodiacreview.com/