General Xcard question for you

[vettejock99]

I am testing Sage and I am going to test the Cayars17 plugin and the alpha Xcard plugin. I just received my xcard yesterday, and I think it has a hardware problem, but I wanted to get some confirmation here before I spend another 7-10 days ordering another one.

When I plug it into my TV using the same component cable and inputs I was using before with my ATI DVI-Component adapter on my 9500, I get a picture, but it is overwhelmingly blue in tint. I can disconnect/reconnect various combinations of the component plugs but it never normalizes.

I presume this is a hardware issue, as the TV and cable have shown to be quite capable of displaying properly. The color from the Xcard is blue, whether I am trying Sage or using the DVD player included with the card.

Anyone think I can somehow resolve this without sending the card back?

Thanks,

Mark

[stanger89]

This may sound stupid (coming from an no-Xcard user) but are you sure you have it set for component output?

[jptaz]

I always have this problem too when I first install.

You need to set it to use the YUV Output. You probably have it set to RGB.
Here is the settings I use for My HD TV using 1080i.

xcard/stream_all_mpegs=true
xcard/verbose_log=false
xcard/scale_osd=true
xcard/audio=SPDIF
xcard/connector=YUV
xcard/output=HDTV
xcard/standard=USETV
xcard/hdmode=3
xcard/vgamode=0
xcard/aspect=ASIS

John

[vettejock99]

Thanks, guys, I had tried YUV and RGB, and it seems to make no difference. I also don't think that would affect the DVD software showing the same problem (to be clear I am not launching it from Sage, just from the desktop). I am going to check those other settings now, but I think they are the same.

And just to make sure I am clear, BOTH of you are talking about the properties file, right? I don't see any other applications or utilities outside of Sage to specify anything at all about the xcard.

[jptaz]

Have you installed the X Media Player?

You should launch that first before trying any other programs and test the settings in the X Media Player.

Are you sure you have the 3 component plugs connected correctly. The Xcard Card break out cable does not color code these correctly and I think I had to swap them around.

I am pretty sure it is not a bad card if the color is just blue. This is identical to what I was seeing on my XCard until I configured the software correctly.

John

[vettejock99]

I had tried the XMedia Player, but there is no documentation about setting it up either in the box or on their site, as best I can tell. However, you were right - the default output on the DVD player was showing S-Video and when I changed it to YUV -> bang! color is perfect in the Xmedia player.

I checked my properties file and it was set to YUV, but OSD scaling was set to false. TV was set to NTSC, though I have changed it to USETV now, and I changed WIDE to ASIS (although this doesn't seem to fill the whole screen on my 16:9 Hitachi HDTV-ready TV.

Now I am getting the irritating error that it can't detect an encoder (my PVR-250), and this seems to fix itself after multiple reboots for no real reason (other apps such as WinTV see it fine all the time).

So, if I can get Sage to play now, maybe it will be the right color. I am running version 2.1.10 with the service patch because I was hoping for stability, but maybe I will have to upgrade, too......

Thanks for your help on this!

[vettejock99]

I am trying to get Xmedia player working right now before further testing Sage (brilliant, I know . It seems that even though my HDTV ready TV will display 1080i, changing the settings off 480p produces only a blank screen. I have DVDIdle running, which has worked with other apps to bypass Macrovision, but it still seems to be locking me out here - unless someone has some other suggestions.

[jptaz]

DVD Playback on the XCard is unfortunately limited to 480P DVD playback. I had hoped the software would be smart enough to swith to 480P even if other settings were selected, but I guess not.

I think they do this no matter what, but i am not sure.

John

[robertmcox]

thread hijack - ;-) (problem is resolved)

so Vette, now that you have your xcard osd, would you mind commenting on the plugin for others that might be interested in doing this? specifically, any problems, stability-wise or wise?

[vettejock99]

Sorry for the delayed reply. I have been jacking with my HTPC box all weekend. Anyway, I haven't used the plugin that much. It seems very stable, but I may have been a little confused about the options. When everyone says OSD, I presume they mean on the same screen as the TV picture. I think they are still working on that with this, so the OSD is there, but on the desktop monitor, not overlaying the xcard output, right? Anyway, that's how it was for me, and I think anything other than an OSD over the TV picture is unacceptable for what I am trying to accomplish. (Don't get me wrong, I am thankful people are even doing any of this work!)

The most distressing thing to me is this: my TV, a Hitachi Ultravision RPTV HDTV monitor will display 480i/p, 540i/p, and 1080i. The ATI dongle I have been using only does 480i/p or 1080i. At 480i/p. the picture quality is essentially no better than any card I have used with S-Video out. At 1080i with FFDSHOW, I got an AMAZING picture at one point, but the CPU overhead killed me. My PC couldn't take it. I heard about the Xcard output quality, but it has not been at all impressive for me. It could be the analog source (HRC cable) or user error on my part, but the same source gives a great 1080i picture on FFSDHOW, if my CPU could handle it. It also didn't impress me on DVDs, either, which makes me question the source issue. I am thinking about selling the Xcard and my CPU and buying more horsepower at this point....

Anyway, the plugin is rock solid stable for me, and with a high quality source, maybe it is great.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by vettejock99

Anyway, I haven't used the plugin that much. It seems very stable, but I may have been a little confused about the options. When everyone says OSD, I presume they mean on the same screen as the TV picture. I think they are still working on that with this, so the OSD is there, but on the desktop monitor, not overlaying the xcard output, right?

The Xcard plugin makes it possible to see the SageTV UI on the TV through the Xcard's TV-out.

- Andy

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by vettejock99

The most distressing thing to me is this: my TV, a Hitachi Ultravision RPTV HDTV monitor will display 480i/p, 540i/p, and 1080i. The ATI dongle I have been using only does 480i/p or 1080i. At 480i/p. the picture quality is essentially no better than any card I have used with S-Video out. At 1080i with FFDSHOW, I got an AMAZING picture at one point, but the CPU overhead killed me. My PC couldn't take it. I heard about the Xcard output quality, but it has not been at all impressive for me. It could be the analog source (HRC cable) or user error on my part, but the same source gives a great 1080i picture on FFSDHOW, if my CPU could handle it. It also didn't impress me on DVDs, either, which makes me question the source issue. I am thinking about selling the Xcard and my CPU and buying more horsepower at this point....

Not to crap on anybody's parade, but I'm not really surprised. I too have read the reports here of the excellent output quality of the Xcard for S-Video, but have been quite skeptical of it's HD/Component output. I know the Xcard has about 0 respect over at AVS when it comes to it's analog output.

[jptaz]

The XCard output is restricted on DVD to 480P, which is the worst part of the product.

As I have a POS P3 733Mhz with 256 MB RDRAM. I can not dream of FFDSHOW usage and upgrading PC means a new PC since it would mean CPU/MB/RAM since RDRAM is hugely expensive. Compared to Software codecs over DVI the XCard is much better and smoother playback even on fast action on MY PC.

When I first hooked it up to the component in on my TV I had to calibrate the XCard and my component input. Every bit of noise in an MPEG2/DVD/analog connection just jumped out. After calibrating it was much nicer.

Having said that I do not think the noise on my 32" CRT is bad, in fact it looked better than the artifiacting of software decoders and the jerkiness in fast action playback, but I can imagine that if this were on a larger screen it would be worse.

I also noticed recently now that I am watching with the XCard Exclusively that there is constant vertical bar that flickers across the screen on the Xcard playback. It is less noticable farther away, I don't know if it is the thin wire I am connecting the component adapter too or if it is just something enherent in the XCard.

If I could afford to build a new PC that could do FFDSHOW via DVI with a new Video card I would, but right now it is just not in the cards.

The Xcard did look as good playing DVDs on my projector via Component at 480i as my Pioneer Elite DVD player...I am sure the AVS forum snobs would point out that the Pioneer Elite has horrible red shift in the Component outs and is bad product, but it looks plenty good projecting an 8 foot image on my wall.

Bottom line....If you don't mind dumping the money or can affordably upgrade the CPU on the box and run FFDSHOW then go for it.

John

[vettejock99]

Excellent points, all. I especially understand what you mean about spending the money. I don't know what irks me more at this point, the man-WEEKS I have spent trying to get an acceptable solution (in retrospect I should've bought a Tivo and tried the HTPC after another 12 months of product maturity) or the fact that due to all of the unanticipated issues I have spent over $300 more than I planned to spend already (and believe me, I did my research).

Anyway, I won't go into all of my pains and frustrations here. What I will say, is that I will soon be asking the experts what they think of a particular setup I may try to do before throwing in the towel altogether. The key is the new RS482 chipset motherboard due in April from ATI. It appears to have the Xpress 200G graphics onboard with a component out. If so, maybe pairing that with a Athlon 64 3500 or similar will allow me to get rid of a lot of this other crap and simplify some things. Maybe I'll be able to pick up a MB/CPU combo for $300 or so, allowing me to sell my current CPU, MB, Xcard, Radeon 9500, and DVI-component dongle and minimizing the out of pocket damage.

For some reason my PC isn't playing well with DScaler5. I was going to try that and the GPL Mpeg1/2 decoder w/AC3 filter as a last ditch attempt to get acceptable quality out of my current rig, if I can get it to work. Failing that, I am going to start selling off equipment and call it a day.

[stanger89]

If you've had troubles so far:

1) DO NOT rely on integrated graphics, they may be getting better but they're nowhere near add-in cards.

2) DO NOT buy a "brand-new-shiny-bleading-edge" component.

What you want to do is look at what others have done and go with a proven setup. Now...

At 1080i with FFDSHOW, I got an AMAZING picture at one point

If you've been there with what you have, scrapping everything and starting over isn't really logical.

Care to give some more details on exactly what the problem you're having is? In what way are you dissatisfied with your results? More details about your configuration (CPU, motherboard, decoders, ffdshow settings that made it "amazing")?

[vettejock99]

Well, I used a guide from avsforums...some sharpening, gradual denoise, resize to 1776x1000, but it pegged by 2.4GHz Celeron D. In retrospect I should've bought a 3.4GHz P4, but they are pricey and I was let to believe that the Celly would be fine because it has a decent core and I have a PVR-250 doing the encoding....and it is just analog cable. It appears to be the denoise and resizing that kills it. Same story on DVDs.

[stanger89]

Have you tried without the resize. ffdshow resize vs your video card would be a rather subtle difference.

[vettejock99]

Yeah, but for some reason, without the resize there is a major difference. I dunno, maybe I am getting 480i instead of 480p which would seem better. Hard to tell, especially with this TV. This was definitely the only thing that worked. On a side note, and moving even more OT, has anyone here had success with DScaler and a PVR-250? I know the official site says no go, but it looks like DScaler5 works. However, it doesn't seem to install right on mine, at least not like DScaler 4 did. Along these lines, should I even believe that DScaler can give deinterlacing and denoise/resize results similar to FFDSHOW?

[stanger89]

DScaler 5 is an alpha MPEG decoder and completely different than Dscaler 4, which is an app for processing RAW video from a (software) TV card. FWIW dScaler 4 is much better at deinterlacing (it has film detection), and noise reduction it probably a tossup.

[jptaz]

I would consider buying a better CPU based on what other people are running FFDShow and/or Dscaler on.

A Celeron 2.4 is fine as long as you do not want to tweak the playback, especially at HD Resolutions.

I assume when you say you should have just bought a Tivo you mean an HD Tivo or DirecTivo because I would be very surprised if you would not be in the same place with a standard Tivo since I do not believe that its output quality is NOT near as good as your current rig using FFDSHOW. In fact I would say pluggin the XCard in to the TV via Svideowould give you an idea of what a Tivo would look like. My friend says his Tivo Analog TV Tuner looks like crap compared to the PVR 250 Tuner, but he connects his DirecTV to SVideo in on the Tivo and it looks great on a 32 Standard Def TV. Of course spending $1300 on an HD Tivo and Life Time Subscription is not that much money relative to building a new HTPC, especially if it has to have enough horse power for FFDShow.

John