Where I think PVR solutions will head

[lovingHDTV]

This is just to start a dialogue on where people think PVR solutions will/should head in the future.

I think PVR solution will be all server/client based. The server will be hidden in the "server room", with a small monitor, or headless and hooked to large storage devices. It needs to be able to handle the storage going offline periodically and handling this nicely. The server will have to support multi-tuners, and be able to server up every concevable type of media imaginable. It needs to be able to cleanly support meta-data (additional information pertaining to the media file it will be serving). I think most solutions will be able to do this. MCE, Beyond, Sage, GB-PVR, whatever.

Where I think you will see product differentiation will be on the client. This is where the user experience will be felt. I think the requirements of a full PC as client are absurd, this should be a cheap STB with optional DVD drive, hardware decoders, network inteface, and other connectivity. I should be able to plug in my digital camcorder and play my video via this box. It should play all files available from the server. I should be able to manage the server with remote and 10ft interface.

What I run today is Cayars on my server so that I can have access to lots of Sage info, and SageMC with Xlobby on my client. I would love to replace my client with a STB like the Roku with a Sage client running on it. A client like this, and if the sever would not remove files I don't want removed, I would be in PVR heaven.

[Now obligitory flame like statment to get a conversation going]
Sage sucks and should never exist!!!!

[stanger89]

Do you work for Microsoft? Sounds an aweful lot like MCE + Xbox 360.

[GbrNole]

join the line, man!

heck if the mediamvp had just a bit more capability i'd be set (component out and hardware decode of mpeg4)

[kayoti]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Do you work for Microsoft? Sounds an aweful lot like MCE + Xbox 360.

I was just thinking the same thing.

[stanger89]

Not that it's a bad thing. But that post just sounded so much like Bill's CES keynote, and the Xbox 360 press conference.

On that note (and OT at the same time) it will be interesting to see how the 360 works, I see they picked Intervideo for the video decoding, wonder if they'll throw in Trimention DNM too?

[FamilyMan]

How about the DigitalDeck? Expensive, but it does everything I would want except Intelligent Recording and being able to record in HD.

[parkimar]

Where I think you will see product differentiation will be on the client. This is where the user experience will be felt. I think the requirements of a full PC as client are absurd, this should be a cheap STB with optional DVD drive, hardware decoders, network inteface, and other connectivity. I should be able to plug in my digital camcorder and play my video via this box. It should play all files available from the server. I should be able to manage the server with remote and 10ft interface.

I tend to agree, this is why products like the XBox 360 are such a threat to companies such as Sage. Sage has a great product (I've basically stopped using Meedio now that Im happy with how all my Video Library is structured) ,
and it has client software, but Someone providing kick ass hardware on which this software can run, and tying the 2 together, is providing a very desirable device.

Also, the fact that it is a rather cool games machine, does go in it's favour.


Your original post was to ask where the future of PVR's is going.

I think the client server part is correct, where I could imagine things going in the future with regards the client, is having the display device come with the hardware facility to stream all the info off of a central server, and a slot in card could provide the overlay frontend software.

Not exactly a deep and insightful analysis, I'll maybe cogitate more on it when Im not at work

Cheers

Mark

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by parkimar

I think the client server part is correct, where I could imagine things going in the future with regards the client, is having the display device come with the hardware facility to stream all the info off of a central server, and a slot in card could provide the overlay frontend software.

Are you sure you guys don't work for Microsoft?

Anybody else watch the CES keynote?

They were talking about TVs coming with MCE "extenders" built in.

[parkimar]

Are you sure you guys don't work for Microsoft?

I'd have noticed !

I didn't know about the CES announcement, I guess great minds must think alike !

Cheers

Mark

[stanger89]

Maybe it's brainwashing

[mediahome]

Oh come on, just because someone is thinking that media capture/storage/distribution in the home will move to a client-server architecture doesn't mean that they are a "Microsofty". I too believe that photos, music, and video in the home will be stored on some kind of a server accessible to media devices and PCs throughout the home. As much as MS will work hard to make MCE/extenders the end all/be all, I don't think that they will win - too proprietary and single platform specific. I believe that products based on UPnP running on a variety of OS platforms will be the winners. I also think that MS will eventually have to move MCE/extenders to be UPnP devices.

[blade]

I have no clue where the future of PVR is heading. If I had to guess it won't be in a direction most of us will like.

Commercials generate billions of dollars worth of revenue. Networks dislike PVRs because it's just a matter of time before they begin losing revenue. Really, what corporation is going to pay millions of dollars for a 30 second ad if the majority of people watching the show won't see it because they have a PVR?

Of course the Networks are going to find new ways to generate revenue, that's why they're in business. Whatever is done will most likely not be very popular with people like ourselves.

[lovingHDTV]

No I don't work for Microsoft. I don't even know what the Bill Gates speach is your refering to. This is just what I want for myself, nothing sinister, just my own greed

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mediahome

Oh come on, just because someone is thinking that media capture/storage/distribution in the home will move to a client-server architecture doesn't mean that they are a "Microsofty".

Whoah! Keep your pants on, I was kidding.

I too believe that photos, music, and video in the home will be stored on some kind of a server accessible to media devices and PCs throughout the home.

I to think that the client/server architecture will probably become the norm, be it a full blown media server PC, and full-up HTPC clients, or thin clients, or the probably more likely, STB type server+clients (what DTV was talking about). I've been running a client/server system for several months and wouldn't think of building a new system any other way.

The reason I made (or tried to) the joke was specifically two things (not to pick on anyone ): lovingHDTV's comments about plugin in media, thin clients, central PC server, sound very much like the vision presented at the CES keynote. And parkimar's comment was somewhat funny (in a timing way) since MS had discussed TVs with integrated MCE "clients".

I in no way mean to ridicule, I was attempting to make a funny off the whole MS controlling the world stereotype. If anything I agree with (most) of it, and think it's an indication of just how well thought out MS's plans are.

As much as MS will work hard to make MCE/extenders the end all/be all, I don't think that they will win - too proprietary and single platform specific.

As much as anyone will win, I think they will. In the CE industry, especially where the MPAA and RIAA have a lot of power, being closed/propritary is a reasonably good thing (from a business perspective).

I believe that products based on UPnP running on a variety of OS platforms will be the winners.

I have no doubt these will become more common, but I don't know how well they will hold up. Like it or not, we're entering the age of digital media with DRM, and I don't thing UPnP is secure enough for such things as streaming recorded premium channels, HD-DVD, purchased music.

I also think that MS will eventually have to move MCE/extenders to be UPnP devices.

Support for UPnP is probably likely, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the content allowed over it is somewhat limited. I could of course, be way off base on the security of UPnP, but with the openness, and ease of implimenting it (free Java libraries), it would seem to insecure for DRM media.

[flavius]

Here is some good news http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/003619.php

[mediahome]

Stranger89 - Yeh, I need to lighten up some. I just don't think that MS has it all thought out as well as some would believe. MCE and the current extenders look a lot like MS's typical "throw something together and see what sticks" product research appoach.

Don't get me wrong - I am not a MS basher. I make my living installing/supporting MS products. I have been working in the MS camp for some 20 odd years. It's just that I have seen this before. Sometimes they fly after version 3, and sometimes they don't.

You make some very good points relative to the influence of the MPAA and RIAA in how product strategy will unfold. My bet is that the sheer number of UPnP supporters and thier reluctance to cowtow to Microsoft will gradually push UPnP out front. But then we have never seen an influence quite like the MPAA and RIAA before.

[silkshadow]

I think we need to clarify what region we are talking about because, I believe, there will be a fracturing of the PVR genre depending on what country you live in. In the US, I disagree with what has been posted here. The future of PVR for you guys will be as follows:

1) The huge congolomerates will offer universal TV-on-demand in a flavor that is easy to use, impossible to steal and will be scoffed at by all tech people who want more control over their media. Commercials will pop up randomly via the STB. This progressively expensive (will be butt cheap when first offered and become more and more expensive) subscription service will be implemented and the masses of America will get used to it and love it: "I press these buttons and I can watch whatever I want. Its so easy, this is the best!".

2) Quietly, the media companies in the US have banded their resources together to create the MCA which has been spending billions lobbying the US Government. Suddenly, a year or so after the first congolomerate offers a full TV-on-demand service nationally, a bill is offered in the House to protect broacast content. To some people's surprise, it passes and is signed into law. Immediately after, intense DRM on broadcast content will slowly force open format PVRs to die off. Hackers will try and crack it but, after a couple of years, it will be so difficult that only certain groups will be able to keep up with cracking the protection and they will guard that ability jealously. The minority of tech-savy users will be left out in the cold surrounded by the impotent screams of the EFF. The masses of America are happily watching TV-on-demand and don't even notice.

3) IPTV may become the standard that drives this but, its cloudy, because better alternatives will come out and push MS for the standard. Probably different cable/sat companies will use different standards to differenciate themselves from each other.

This future is coming unless the EFF gets far better funded, a radical libertarian is elected President (which we all know will never happen), or many, many more Americans get either tech savy or more involved in protecting themselves.

[teknubic]

Wow. ^

For Sale:
1 television
1 PVR
interesting trades welcome.

[parkimar]

No offence taken Stanger
You are right regarding the comedic value of the timing.

Im not sure about all of Silkshadows analysis, but a lot of it is believable - worryingly.

I am uk based, and Sky will be starting HDTV broadcasts soon, so some of these issues will become more prevalent over here as well.
Sky are already mandating that TV sets that accept HDTV content from thier decoders will need to have HDMI interfaces.

I don't know how other broadcasters in the UK are planning to deal with HDTV - Im thinking of the free OTA digital channels of Freeview, however I would be surprised if we don't see a shift to decoders that also require HDMI.

In terms of how this will effect PVR's I guess unless we start getting decoder / capture cards released that can accept HDMI input then we may have problems. Once you have technology that is forced is forced to employ the broadcasters standards, you are starting to be tied to proprietry solutions, that can easily be used to force DRM onto people.

And if you make the proprietry devices, easy to use, so that the DRM, etc is transparant (unless you are making 'Illegal' copies) , the vast majority of people will accept this, since it is easier than cobbling together a powerful PC based system that has the ability to bypass the DRM restrictions.

So i guess in summary, I still agree with the central theme of this thread regarding client server setup (where the client is some fancy swandangle box that looks cool - and maybe plays games as well) . However I can foresee a fork in this whereby a small class of technically savvy folk create thier own hardware / software combo's to regain control over thier own viewing habits / preferences.
This small class of technically compotent folk don't need to be able to do the code cracking etc themselves, just have enough technical nouse to be able to use other peoples solutions.

anyways just my 2p worth.

Cheers

Mark

[cmaffia]

Want to know something?.. After spending X amount of dollars in hardware for my "Sage Universe" (originally I thought I would spend no more than what I laid out for Frey's single tuner bundle pack!! ) and the hundreds and hundreds of hours I have spent configuring, tweaking and experimenting with SageTV, my Series 2 Tivo still blows it away!

I'd like to see development in having Tivo as "THE PVR front end" and integrating it with back end products (from companies like Frey Tech or Microsoft) I realize that would require Tivo to open some of it's source code to interested companies but it isn't at all impossible.

Tivo really does all the basics better than anyone with the slickest and most reliable interface ever and not to menton the most comfortable remote ever made. My point is why reinvent the wheel? I'm not saying my SageTV project wasn't fun, but in keeping with the topic I believe Tivo could pave the future of PVR functionality with some changes to their business model. (Ducking from the impending flames)