linux support?

berniec · #1 11-22-2005, 12:53 PM

in all these new Sage press releases dealing with v4 i see them mention that Sage can be installed on either windows or linux, but where are the links to d/l the linux versions? am i missing something here??

JasonJoel · #2 11-22-2005, 01:07 PM

As far as I know, the Linux version is only available to OEMs - not to end users.

Jason

Peggysis · #3 11-22-2005, 02:49 PM

A quote from the linuxpipeline article (http://www.linuxpipeline.com/showArt...leID=162100520)
"Linux In Your Living Room?" May 02, 2005

"Frey Likes Linux
A commercial software maker, Frey Technologies, LLC, has also entered the Linux PVR market. In early April, the Illinois-based company launched a Linux version of SageTV, which the company bills as a "Tivo-like product." Like most PVR software, when coupled with a TV tuner card, SageTV can record and pause live TV broadcasts, and users can schedule recordings of programs up to two weeks in advance. The product, which also functions as a media jukebox serving audio and image files, is currently available to OEMs and will be sold direct to consumers later this year,

Although SageTV was previously available only for Windows PCs, according to spokesperson Elizabeth Ash, the company developed a Linux version after concluding that the OS offered "higher reliability and lower cost for our users." While Linux users with technical backgrounds are often content to spend more time and effort to use an open-source PVR, Ash said Frey will market SageTV to customers who are willing to pay for product that is much easier to install and comes with technical support."

I have been waiting for version 4 to come out in the hopes that it was the promised Linux version that would be sold "directly to consumers", but alas, I am very, very disappointed...

I have put off buying SageTV because of this promise. I don't want to get stuck with a Windows version if they ever make good on it, because I don't believe they would let me switch platforms. I want to use the Linux version as a server while running Windows on client boxes. I'll wait a little while longer, but the longer I wait, the more likely some other company will make what I want a reality.

stanger89 · #4 11-22-2005, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peggysis

I don't want to get stuck with a Windows version if they ever make good on it, because I don't believe they would let me switch platforms.

Why is that? SageTV has shown that they are very accomidating with licenses, and I'd bet they'd be willing to accomodate you.

gplasky · #5 11-22-2005, 07:46 PM

It is available-as the MediaReady 5000. What you quoted above is true. It is available to OEMs and will be sold direct to consumers later this year. Nowhere does it say it will be sold by Frey. What it is saying is it will be sold direct to the consumers....by the OEMs. So far Frey has no intention of selling the Linux software version direct to the end user as far as I know. I think it has been stated in these forums a few times but I may be mistaken. It's supposed to be marketed as like a set top box and not as a software package. It's hardware and software.

Gerry

dbfresh23 · #6 11-22-2005, 07:59 PM

Stop twisting words and just give me a Linux SageTV Download!!

SprDtyF350 · #7 11-22-2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Stop twisting words and just give me a Linux SageTV Download!!

I agree, why won't they? I think it would be awesome to use Linux running Sage as a server..

stanger89 · #8 11-22-2005, 10:22 PM

Support nightmare.

jominor · #9 11-22-2005, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SprDtyF350

I agree, why won't they? I think it would be awesome to use Linux running Sage as a server..

I would ask why. I've worked on Linux, various Unixes(Solaris,Aix, HPUX), Windows, Macs, and OS/2.
I use WinXP SP2 as my Sage server. It runs 24/7 without problems for months at a time. Since I pretty much use USB2 drives, I don't even shutdown to add drives.

With RemoteDesktop, I can administer the machine from my family room on my laptop. My server is in my basement in a corner on a table with lots of drives and lots of cable.

What would be so awesome about using Linux?

dbfresh23 · #10 11-22-2005, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanger89

Support nightmare.

I think that's a silly comment. I could be mistaken, but I'd think that most to almost all of the "user support" takes place on this forum with experienced users (such as yourself) helping out other users.

Obviously I don't know how much email support requests they get, so maybe it's silly for me to call your statement silly

dbfresh23 · #11 11-22-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jominor

What would be so awesome about using Linux?

Umm, well if you are that experienced with linux and unix, you should realize how much better it is at handling resources. I don't think there is anyone alive - EVEN BILL GATES - that would contest Linux being more powerful then windows. Yes Gates did admit to this recently - in the server segment anyway.

PGPfan · #12 11-22-2005, 11:02 PM

I think people tend to confuse Linux 'power' with that of a modern OS being "purpose built" for a given usage. Windows XP is FAR more 'powerful' of an OS for the general "non-geek" consumer. There is just no contest.

If you have a Linux build for a given hardware set, don't plan on upgrading much (read server environment) and limit the tasks it is required to do, then Linux shows impressive "power". However, if you have a 'purpose built' Windows XP OS (unfortunately only available with XP embedded) then Linux has absolutely NO advantage whatsoever over XP. Again, the key is that it all boils down to intended usage.

-PGPfan

stanger89 · #13 11-22-2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

I think that's a silly comment. I could be mistaken, but I'd think that most to almost all of the "user support" takes place on this forum with experienced users (such as yourself) helping out other users.

I don't know, consider the what sorts of issues there are on Windows, there's a share of software (driver, decoder) issues, but mostly, it's hardware and/or Sage configuration issues.

Now ponder, for a moment, the Linux version:
You've got, basically innumerable versions of the linux Kernel (especially considering those who compile their own).
Then there's all the different distros, with different kernels, and different infrastructures
Then there's the lack of any official drivers for any of the tuner hardware.
Lack of legitimate DVD (CSS) decoders.
Lack of any video decoders per se, seems most linux apps just compile in libavcodec directly.

Linux, as a download, for the general public would be a can of worms, I don't think they want to open.

There are definitely some advantages, but as a media (non-server) OS, it's best suited to the embedded type market, like in the Mediaready.

jominor · #14 11-23-2005, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Umm, well if you are that experienced with linux and unix, you should realize how much better it is at handling resources. I don't think there is anyone alive - EVEN BILL GATES - that would contest Linux being more powerful then windows. Yes Gates did admit to this recently - in the server segment anyway.

I've done development work on both(C, C++) and Java. I don't agree that Unix is necessarily much better at handling resources. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

I would say that for the task we are discussing, the are equal. I run my machine pretty much 24/7. That's pretty hard to improve on.

I would contest any statement that says that Linux is more powerful than Windows when it is presented without qualification. We have customers that run both Unix and Windows servers and I don't hear complaints about either.

SprDtyF350 · #15 11-23-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jominor

I would ask why. I've worked on Linux, various Unixes(Solaris,Aix, HPUX), Windows, Macs, and OS/2.
I use WinXP SP2 as my Sage server. It runs 24/7 without problems for months at a time. Since I pretty much use USB2 drives, I don't even shutdown to add drives.

With RemoteDesktop, I can administer the machine from my family room on my laptop. My server is in my basement in a corner on a table with lots of drives and lots of cable.

What would be so awesome about using Linux?

It's not that I feel Linux is so superior to Windows. On the contrary I believe Windows is a much more user friendly OS. But, I would like to see it because Linux is not Windows. I like having a choice. Just like I would not like it if there was only one type of car. Windows runs and runs on my server and really has no problems. Windows also has become a bloated hog with lots of stuff bundled in with it that I don't need, or want.

Basically I just like different things then what the mainstream finds popular. I sometimes use a Mac because it's different. I bought a Sega Dreamcast because it's different. I drive a 69 Dodge Charger when everyone else drives a Camaro. I ride an old 2 stroke RD-350 Yamaha when everyone else rides a Harley. I just like to be different, and I like to have more than one choice.

I think most of us like to be different. We are using Sage when normal people are using a Tivo..... Ok, maybe we are the normal people

Randy

PGPfan · #16 11-23-2005, 02:23 AM

Very well said, SPrDtyF350.

Finally, someone admits that they just want it because it's different! That's the perfect way to put it.

I've been an avid motorcycle enthusiast for the better part of 30 years and it pains me to hear all the people that parrot the proclaimation "Harleys are the best motorcycles in the world". True, only if your criteria is 'image', but for efficiency, durability, rideability, smoothness, speed, handling, cost, and reliability then Harley isn't the 'Best' by any stretch of the imagination.

If someone wants to use Linux to be different, or to check it out, or whatever-fine. But to blindly say it is the "Best" is just wrong.

-PGPfan

dbfresh23 · #17 11-23-2005, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jominor

I would contest any statement that says that Linux is more powerful than Windows when it is presented without qualification. We have customers that run both Unix and Windows servers and I don't hear complaints about either.

I've used both Windows and FreeBSD extensively. If you can honestly say that you don't see a difference, then you aren't as experienced in Unix/Linux as you think. I would also take the windows machine needing to be rebooted every couple days as a complaint. I think the fact that the *nix platform is much more powerful is just undisputable. Also, if you look in the MR6000 thread you will see Wayne indicated that he has smooth ff/rw which is also attributed to the fact that he's running a linux machine. ReplayTV and Tivo are both run on *nix platforms, I wonder why they didn't choose windows ce or xpe....

paulbeers · #18 11-23-2005, 07:14 AM

I want Linux to cut the cost of building my Clients/Servers (or at least cutting costs legally

). If I didn't have to buy a copy of windows xp home everytime I wanted to build a client, that would save me like 70 bucks or so. Right now when you consider even buying windows xp home for 70-80 bucks, then sage for 70, you are now at 150 which is what I can buy Windows MCE for. That is why linux is sooo much more interesting to me. I do realise though, that this is only a pipe dream. If I tried to build my first PVR in linux, I think I would have jumped off a cliff. Maybe its time to check out Myt*** again......

Peggysis · #19 11-23-2005, 07:18 AM

Allow me to re-quote the article:

"Although SageTV was previously available only for Windows PCs, according to spokesperson Elizabeth Ash, the company developed a Linux version after concluding that the OS offered "higher reliability and lower cost for our users.""

They concluded Linux was more reliable and cost less. (Can't get less than free!)

As for support, SageTV could offer it with no more support than they give to the OEMs.

JasonJoel · #20 11-23-2005, 08:02 AM

And how do you know what support they give to the OEMs? Very likely they are requiring them to use ONE linux distro, and on specific hardware types. Which is something not a lot of end users will either be willing or equipped to do.

About the only way I personally (I don't speak for Frey) think you will ever see a public Linux version is with ZERO end user support. And I'm not really sure it is in Frey's best interest to even do that, to be honest.

It would be neat to see it happen, but I am skeptical it will ever be available directly to end users.

Jason

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