linux support?

[krutaw]

Originally Posted by jominor

I agree that the Unix environment is powerful. Even with the various GUIs available, I still prefer bash. My point, though, is just that Unix isn't necessarily, inheritably,*more* powerful.

However, I suspect that we can swap stories about people with certifications and that's agreement enough for me!

I humbly disagree. In my experience, the *nix command line has proven itself to be far superiour to any windows api or utility.

Heck, not long ago my company implemented a solution I helped design for managing various Active Directory accounts. Something, that while doable in Windows, is far more robust a solution than any available for the Windows Platform.

That asside, I think we definately have the right gene pool here to be able to make a go of it when it comes to a linux Sage client.

Come on Frey, hook us up!

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by krutaw

... Realistically, given a decent client and attainable set of required libraries, the linux client would be a heck of a lot more stable than any windows client could think of, and be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper.

I've got to disagree with this statement. You guys need to understand that you aren't comparing apples to apples, oranges to oranges. There is NOTHING inherint (sp?) in a Linux distro that makes it better/more stable than Windows XP. The simple fact that you CAN slim it down to just the functionality that you want is the sole reason that it can seem more stable. Windows XP by default has FAR more functionality out of the box than any Linux distro which can be good or bad depending on intended use.

If Microsoft would make available the developement environment for Windows XP embedded for a reasonable price, speaking from experience there would be no comparison, XPe is VASTLY SUPERIOR for a Sage system, be it client or sever. Windows XP just plain has all the multimedia support available.

If you compare XP PRO to a slimmed down Linux, then Linux CAN be as good (maybe better) IF you use the few limited choices of hardware that are blessed with Linux driver support - legal DVD playback not withstanding.

-PGPfan

[jominor]

Originally Posted by krutaw

I humbly disagree. In my experience, the *nix command line has proven itself to be far superiour to any windows api or utility.

Heck, not long ago my company implemented a solution I helped design for managing various Active Directory accounts. Something, that while doable in Windows, is far more robust a solution than any available for the Windows Platform.

That asside, I think we definately have the right gene pool here to be able to make a go of it when it comes to a linux Sage client.

Come on Frey, hook us up!

Well, I have to say that your experience with the Windows API isn't that substantial. The Windows API is the basis for writing applications. If you suggest that the Unix command-line is richer than the very APIs used to create the browser your are running, I would say that you haven't written many programs, certainly not Windows based.

[Edit]
One more thing, there are a variety of command-line replacements for Windows anyway. No matter how you slice it, they are equivalent.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jominor

One more thing, there are a variety of command-line replacements for Windows anyway.

Including bash

[x[corwyn]]

Alright being a Windows and Unix/Linux admin I have some input here.

A straight blind install to any old linux distro will not work. The support nightmare would be awful. Drivers are a huge issue and linux really isn't for Joe Average User.

That doesn't mean not use it though.

First of all I believe a linux distro incorporated with the sage software would be perfect. They can set it up then EXACTLY for what they need it to be set up as. the Kernel, the drivers, and applications can be setup. The hardware that can be used can be specified ahead of time. All you have to do is download the image, put it to disk, install, and configure it for your setup.

Now those of you that are saying that windows servers are just as reliable as linux boxes....It comes down to admins. A well setup linux box can go for years without needing a reboot. The software can outlast the hardware. I agree my Sage box is pretty good, and stays up for a couple of months though we have entered month 6 for this setup and now funky stuff is going on with no real ability to identify the funkyness. Linux you can go through logging, identify issues and if you know what you are doing you can stop and restart a process. There is no registry so you will not need a reboot, just a general knowledge of what works where.

If a good distro is put out and it has the drivers that are needed to support the hardware and the MVP....wow. That would kick some serious ass in the competition.

[RAlfieri]

Originally Posted by jominor

I would ask why. I've worked on Linux, various Unixes(Solaris,Aix, HPUX), Windows, Macs, and OS/2.
I use WinXP SP2 as my Sage server.

I would love to be able to dump the overhead of a Windows XP system on my media center PC for a lean and mean Linux installation with Sage. Windows has been nothing but headaches for me as an OS; although SageTV is the BEST option for a stable Windows-based DVR platform. Windows Media Center is unreliable and unstable.

[churcj2]

My bias would be towards Unix systems I guess because I picked it up in school. MS probably has come a long was, and I use it primarly at work and at home.

From a business sense, I'd think a Unix system beats out a windows system because you have so many options to run it in a very lean mode for many applications. Most if not all of your software is legally free which keeps cost down. As a developer and support individual I love the tools that come with Unix, but because of practical needs at work I must make use of cygwin on windows to have that sense of familarity.

I'm by no means a Unix guru or even remotely an expert. I can generally figure things out with time and make it work. Same goes for windows, though I get more experience on it because of work and home use.


A linux version would be great. For me its not really a reliability factor as so much goes into that (hardware can give you problems too), but rather a cost and perhaps performance factor. Does the linux version require xwindows? Persumably if the Linux version is released, people will opt to try and get it working as a client on XBox (whether that will work or not I don't know). If it did, it would probalby be the most motivating reason for me to want one. Though if I were setting up a dedicated living room PC I might opt for linux once I checked into whether or not there were drivers and software for my needs.

[phenixdragon]

Hmm...I have to disagree with keeping the costs down. One of the big deals now is how pricy it is to use UNIX\LINUX in the work place. I really dont know anyone in the business world who gets apps and the OS for free. As I work for Starbucks and I can tell you, we pay a ton of money for out programs and nothing was free, same goes with each version of UNIX we are running. Now maybe smaller companies are able to go with free but larger ones arent getting it for free.

I beleive also I just read something about Germany switching to all Linux and they stated that it will be more costly to go with Linux then Windows.

I also see a big push (at least on the West Coast) for Windows. Again, at my work, the push away from UNIX to Windows has increased becaue of flexability and it is cheaper to run/support Windows then Unix. But of course our main box is the largest i5 on the west coast. But of course we have MSFT here so thats a major factor.

Everyone has their own opinions on this but I myself only see it costing more because there are so many reports showing it does and all the companies I ahve worked for it did cost more.

But I would like to see a customized version of Linux for Sage. If they came out with their on version of Linux that would just kick butt. That stripes away all the extra fat.

[dbfresh23]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

But I would like to see a customized version of Linux for Sage. If they came out with their on version of Linux that would just kick butt. That stripes away all the extra fat.

First we would need to see a version of SageTV for Linux - for those of us that aren't OEMs. There are a bunch of customized Linux installs for MythTV, so I'd imagine they would start showing up if we had something to customize.

Also I read a while back that the State of MA is switching to Linux. Moving off all MS products, even going to Openoffice. Only things that may cost more when moving to the *nix platform is support and commercial apps like HPUX, AIX and Solaris.

[JasonJoel]

Hardly... How about retraining your entire IT organization? Often that costs more than the software and hardware costs.

Switching from one platform to another is ALWAYS horrifically expensive in people and productivity terms.

Jason

Originally Posted by dbfresh23

Only things that may cost more when moving to the *nix platform is support and commercial apps like HPUX, AIX and Solaris.

[churcj2]

Didn't mean to keep alive a hot OS discussion I know that can be touchy.

Ultimately for me the only factor of unix vs windows is the possibility of building a task specific tool (aka a SageTV client) that can run on a relatively lean piece of hardware (maybe the xbox with linux installed). Might be able to do it a little cheaper, or maybe its just a touch feeling memory from college and earlier days of work for me. In the case of the XBox, it makes a possibility? that would be good if it did.

[phenixdragon]

On which is more exspensive, one is more then another to whom ever you talk to because we all have diffrent views. I mean at my work, every cept the AS/400 admins said the AS/400 would go away with us. but look at us now we just purchsed 2 of the largest AS/400 (now called i5) boxes on the west coast. Both as exactly the same since one is going to be mirrored at real time but it is the largest. If we switched off to UNIX we would paying up the butt in everything that comes with it. I will say no matter what price is diffrent depending on the situation, like what you have now, what you want, what you are going to, etc... so neither way is cheaper then the other.

but as for Sage i still say I want a custom Linux version for it. I mean I woudlnt even mind if they only supported 2 or 4 tuner cards just as long as they worked and they were the best. If they did that there isnt a reason they couldnt be kicking butt in the DVR world. and CableCARD.

[Peggysis]

Love this statement:

"Avoid frequent reboots, updates and viruses of other PC operating systems and enjoy and entertain yourself and your family more with SageTV Media Center for Linux OEM Edition."

Ahhh.... if you are listening, thank you SageTV!

I spent the last year investigating and trying out just about every type of PVR software available to replace my 5 year old Tivo (with lifetime subscription), and I like SageTV's software interface, hardware support, and stability best of all. The support of the MPVs - I mean "Media Extenders" -make even more useful for the whole house. If only those boxes did HD!

I will purchase the Linux version probably this week. I'm glad to see that SageTV included the Linux OS distribution as part of the install package. IMHO, this is the way to do it.

Server System: P3 800 with ~350 MB memory, a Hauppauge PVR 250, and an ATI Rage Fury 128 Pro Video Card, (mode 0 install)

This system never took to XP (it would periodically freeze when idle), but is rock solid with Win2k (which is a pain to install these days) and is currently in trial mode with my new AMD based HTPC as the client (and new gaming system).

[churcj2]

While I suppose many might be looking for the SageTV to run on a linux as a server, I'm more interested in a client.

I'm curious as to whether or not a linux client could run off the xbox. That would be one of the ideal setups for extending ones sagetv to various TVs.

[gplasky]

The linux version is using Gentoo. If you could get the xBox setup running Gentoo I don't see why you couldn't.

Gerry

[IKK]

So has anyone tried loading Sage Linux on the Xbox yet. I am looking at ordering a new client "I have an extra MVP" but I would rather have the ability to watch HD recorded channels on the client.

[stanger89]

You're not going to be able to do HD on an Xbox, not enough power. Last I heard, Linux Sage didn't support XMVC, without which there's no hope a Celeron 733 can decode HD. Even with hardware accelleration I don't think it's likely.

[IKK]

Well I am trying to find a way to record my stuff in HD and watch it on another client. I dont care if it is transmited in HD I just dont want to have to record it in two diffrent formats. The MVP would be perfect if it could transcode HD single to SD

[stevech]

Based on my experience with Linux and I/O devices (printers, scanners, etc), the drivers are more often than not buggy and missing functions. I attributed this to (a) manufacturer offered only a Windows driver so someone had to reverse-engineer a driver with little or no manufacturer support or (b) manufacturer provided a poor implementation for Linux (low motivation).

Given the complexity of video encoders/tuners, is this a problem in the linux based HTPC world?
At the very least, one has to be very careful on choosing hardware - to find adequately reliable Linux drivers for Kernel version xxx.

I spent the first half of my professional life working with Unix v6 on VAXen, DEC Alphas and Unix, Sun SPARCs, and a little Sun OS on x86.
But... well, you know the story

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You're not going to be able to do HD on an Xbox, not enough power. Last I heard, Linux Sage didn't support XMVC, without which there's no hope a Celeron 733 can decode HD. Even with hardware accelleration I don't think it's likely.

True enough, though at CES I asked the Nvidia Purevideo GM about Linux support for Purevideo, and he said that while they are not planning to release it generally, they have shipped Linux drivers with purevideo enabled to select OEM's. It would be great if these saw the light of day.

Has anyone here talked to their Nvidia OEM to see if they had such drivers available?

Thanks,
mike