New Video Projector Advice

[jptaz]

Hey all,

I am on the fence as to whether to try and fix my current projector that does not handle HD, but looks great for DVDs or buy a new one. If I buy a new one I am looking for the following:

1. Must accept HD signals via a Component input.

2. I would prefer a projector that has long lamp life ( 2000+ hours, preferrably 3000+ in some sort of econo mode )...I always watch with low to no ambient light.

3. Would prefer a Native HD projector (1280 x 720 or greater).

I have been looking at Sanyo Z3 ( Native HD - Expensive lamps ) and on the other end of the Spectrum Refurb Infocus X1 ( Affordable Long Lamp Life ).

I am sure there are lots of options. I am hoping to stay in the $1500 or less price range.

I currently have a Plus Piano HE-3100 which is a wide screen DLP Projector (848 x 600 Native) that has a Light Output of 450 ANSI lumens (normally white) and Contrast Ratio of 700:1 (Full on/off) per the specs. I personally find that it preduces plenty of light output for my viewing habbits ( when it works...right now it is flickering with a new bulb ). I have learned how to watch without seeing much Rainbow effect, even on a movie like Sin City.

Here are the specs on my current unit:
http://www.buyplusdirect.com/site/pl...spec/index.htm

Any input from folks who have Projectors would be great.

Thanks,
John

[jptaz]

Anyone...Anyone...Bump

Maybe a better question is should I spend more money than $1500? Should I be looking at DLP 1280x720? Do the current DLPs not suffer as badly from the Rainbow effect as my older projector?

I know Stanger has a Toshiba MT700 which on paper has a faster wheel than my current projector which has 6 segment 4x...I believe the MT700 goes to 5x. I can usually adapt to the Rainbow effect on my DLP, but it might be nice for those who can't to enjoy the big screen experience.

Any thoughts / comments?

Thanks,
John

[stanger89]

I would seriously look into a DLP, you can definitely get one for another $1500, probably for more like $500.

I've got an MT700, which is the twin of the BenQ PE7700:
http://www.projectorpeople.com/homet...me=BenQ+PE7700

Of course, rainbows are a personal thing, and my guess is that if you see them on yours (I see them on my MT700, which is 4x BTW, unless you change it in the service menu), you'd probably see them on a MT700/PE7700.

I guess you'll have to decide if you like the DLP look, and if you can deal with the rainbows.

Actually, you can probably get a killer deal on the Optima H77:
http://www.projectorsolution.com/pro...r=PCoptomahH77

It's got the 5x 8-segment wheel. And if I'd have been a bit more patient I would have had one of those instead.

If you like the look of your current PJ, a new DLP will probably be a nice upgrade, especially if you go with one with a faster wheel.

You could also consider the Matterhorn (1024x576) PJs.

[jptaz]

Thanks for the Info Stanger!

What Screen do you use for your projector? How are you feeding sources to it, Component out from PC? DVI?

I definitely need to actually go look at some LCDs. I am very happy with my DLP and I particularly like the film like softness that DLP offers over the Crisper more graphics like look of the LCDs.

I may still pay the money to at least get my Projector looked at and see what it will cost to fix it. I would really rather keep it for another year or two to feel like I have recouped my initial investment and frankly I still really like the way it looks....would I love HD, sure, but getting 5 years out of the unit would be preferable especially if it means I can go 1080P or better for the next one

John

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jptaz

Thanks for the Info Stanger!

What Screen do you use for your projector?

Right now it's just a raw Parkland Plastics Durotherm screen. Hope to Goo it sometime over the next week or so.

How are you feeding sources to it, Component out from PC? DVI?

PC is DVI->HDMI, and Component for the Xbox and Xbox 360

I may still pay the money to at least get my Projector looked at and see what it will cost to fix it. I would really rather keep it for another year or two to feel like I have recouped my initial investment and frankly I still really like the way it looks....would I love HD, sure, but getting 5 years out of the unit would be preferable especially if it means I can go 1080P or better for the next one

Realistically, I'd guess 1080p at sub $3000 MSRP (which is about where 720p DPLs have just made it), is at least 2 years out. Hopefully I'm wrong. Right now the cheapest on is the Sony "Ruby" at $10,000. It took at a year or two for DLPs to make the jump from ~$8000 to $3000.

[jptaz]

I know it is probably wishfull thinking that if I get my current projector to last 2 more years that I will be able to afford a 1080P+ Projector, but hey a guy has to dream

What size is your projected image/screen and what is your throw distance? I have to measure but I would like to achieve get a 92" Diagnal 16:9 from 12 feet ( Which is what I believe my current projector manages. )

As much as I like the DLP technology and my projector I am having a hard time justifying the higher price with comparisions like this:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ae900_pe7700.htm
and
http://www.projectorcentral.com/plv-z4_h79.htm

Especially since the Z4 can be had for about the same price as the BenQ PE7700. To lose the Rainbows and gain better contrast level and black levels, at least according to projectorcentral is hard to pass up. While I can adapt to the rainbow on DLP, many of my friends and family have not been able to do it so much.

Again I have not seen any of these LCD projectors and I will definitely be calling a few AV places around to see if any one has demo units to see in action.

John

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jptaz

I know it is probably wishfull thinking that if I get my current projector to last 2 more years that I will be able to afford a 1080P+ Projector, but hey a guy has to dream

What size is your projected image/screen and what is your throw distance? I have to measure but I would like to achieve get a 92" Diagnal 16:9 from 12 feet ( Which is what I believe my current projector manages. )

I believe I'm at about (need to calculate -> sqrt( 96^2 + 96/2.35^2 )...) 104" diagonal, and 14', could be 15'. That's at almost minimum zoom. I just moved it (for my new anamorphic lense) back about 4' so that would have been 96" diagonal at about 10'.

As much as I like the DLP technology and my projector I am having a hard time justifying the higher price with comparisions like this:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/ae900_pe7700.htm
and
http://www.projectorcentral.com/plv-z4_h79.htm

They've come a long way recently (LCDs). When I was looking/buying, the only real competition for the HD2 DLPs, was the Sony HS51, and it cost more than my Tosh.

Somehow (amazingly, and this astounds myself) I haven't kept up on the FP market since I got my Tosh. Not really sure how...

Especially since the Z4 can be had for about the same price as the BenQ PE7700. To lose the Rainbows and gain better contrast level and black levels, at least according to projectorcentral is hard to pass up. While I can adapt to the rainbow on DLP, many of my friends and family have not been able to do it so much.

Actually if you look, the DLP does have better black level, and probably contrast (remember, the LCDs are using dynamic IRIS technology to get those sweet contrast numbers).

Again I have not seen any of these LCD projectors and I will definitely be calling a few AV places around to see if any one has demo units to see in action.

I'd suggest trying to find a Sony dealer with an HS51/HS60. That should give you an idea what LCDs look like. I almost bought an HS51 from a local dealer, but they wouldn't budge on price, and it was $1000 more than the Tosh could be had for, and $500 more than I payed (I payed more to get it from Crutchfield, who surprisingly had a reasonable price, but mainly because they have an exceptional return policy on PJs (30days, vs <10hrs most places) and no-interest financing, did I mention I was rather impatient.

One down side of the Benq/Tosh, I'm on my second bulb already, the first only lasted about 150hrs. Others have had the same trouble. Supposedly it's been fixed (bad batch of bulbs) and mine's still going, but it still would cause me to steer others toward some of the alternatives.

Oh, and one more thing, you say your bulb is flickering? If you haven't, try running it in high-power mode for a few hours. That can fix the problem sometimes by reshaping the electrodes in the bulb.

[jptaz]

Stanger,

Thanks for the info. I am still looking, but my basis for saying they had better contrast ratio and darks was based on the reviews from projector central which traditionally has viewed DLP as king in this area less to do with Numbers...I have now read several other reviews that say that these units visually can compete with the HD2 DLp and in some case pass them...but all in all a tie for contrast. I personally don't care if it is real or trickery that achieves the contrast levels as long as it works and going from the low contrast level I am at now anything would be a big improvement.

I am actually hoping a store(s) has any one of the following: Panasonic PT-AE900U or PT-AE700U, Sanyo Z4 or Z3, Optoma H79, BenQ PE7700, The Sony would be nice but Seems like it has the Sony Inflated price where as the others are better values, well except the H79...but would love to see it anyway.

I have a long way to on this decision and truthfully I may wait until the spring to decide what to do...as much fun as super bowl would be in HD on the big screen I think I can be patient.

I don't think I have a higher power mode on my projector, unfortunately it has only one mode...I may just try running it for a while to see if it gets better, but I think something got lose inside the box. The reason the bulb got replaced early was because my wife threw the dogs chew toy at it last winter .

John

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jptaz

Stanger,

Thanks for the info. I am still looking, but my basis for saying they had better contrast ratio and darks was based on the reviews from projector central which traditionally has viewed DLP as king in this area less to do with Numbers...I have now read several other reviews that say that these units visually can compete with the HD2 DLp and in some case pass them...but all in all a tie for contrast. I personally don't care if it is real or trickery that achieves the contrast levels as long as it works and going from the low contrast level I am at now anything would be a big improvement.

The debate is basically if ANSI (checkerboard) or on/off contrast is more important. LCDs have caught up, and in some cases surpassed DLPs in on/off contrast, talking 5000:1 on/off for Dynamic IRIS LCDs, vs at best about 3000:1 for similarly priced DLP. However LCDs still have quite a ways to go WRT ANSI contrast, last I heard, they topped out at about 1000:1 (if you're lucky) vs the same 3000:1 for a DLP.

Realistically, they're both important, in different ways. On/off gets you those inky blacks for dark scenes, while ANSI is what gives you the "punch".

I am actually hoping a store(s) has any one of the following: Panasonic PT-AE900U or PT-AE700U, Sanyo Z4 or Z3, Optoma H79, BenQ PE7700, The Sony would be nice but Seems like it has the Sony Inflated price where as the others are better values, well except the H79...but would love to see it anyway.

I wasn't suggesting you buy one, (I'd avoid buying anything Sony given their recent stunts), just that an Sony is probably about the easiest to find, and should give you a reference for LCD look vs DLP look. You might also have some luck finding a Mitsubishi HC900 (I think that's the number).

[Bohica]

I have a location to check on line, whenever / whatever you decide, for price and to compare models. If you go to their projectors page, you will see quite a few different brands. The details for each will discuss inputs as well as lamp life in hours. I purchased my projector from them, and purchsed two plasmas -- in each case I called and spoke to someone who was more knowledgable than other places I checked... for a while I thought they were selling off the back of trucks -- if you know what I mean. Their prices hold up well to froogle searches (better than most because often they can't advert their prices due to MAP) -- Hope this doesnt come off as some advert for them as I am not affiliated -- just had really good dealings with them -- and I know its hard to find good comparisons. As I said -- call -- they seem to know their stuff http://www.avdeals.com.

Good Luck

[steingra]

Do you know if DLP looks/works similar whether being used inside a projector vs inside a tv/monitor?

What do you think of the InFocus screenplay 4805? They dropped price by 500$ within past 6 months or 12 months I think.

here is a pdf of it http://www.infocushome.com/pdf/4805/sp4805_ds_eng.pdf

http://www.infocushome.com/amer/eng/...lay/sp4805.asp

I dont claim to understand all the spec's on these types of things, yet. But just wondered what you thought of this one?

There certainly are a lot more options these days, between all the different technologies out there. :-)

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by steingra

Do you know if DLP looks/works similar whether being used inside a projector vs inside a tv/monitor?

Yup, same thing.

What do you think of the InFocus screenplay 4805? They dropped price by 500$ within past 6 months or 12 months I think.

here is a pdf of it http://www.infocushome.com/pdf/4805/sp4805_ds_eng.pdf

http://www.infocushome.com/amer/eng/...lay/sp4805.asp

Nice PJ, if you're OK with 480p. "Better" (576p, and 720p) ones aren't much more.

[jptaz]

The infocus 4805 is very similar to my Projector with the addition of the HD Input capability. But I agree with Stanger that at $1000 it is not worth looking at when at $300 more you can get a brand new Sanyo Z3 ( which I am still considering ) and it comes with a 3 year parts and labor warranty and if you want to stick with DLP you can get a 576P unit for the same price.

I did some measuring and it looks like my Throw Distance is actually more like 10 to 10.5 feet, 11 feet is a bit of stretch (Litterally for my COmponent Cable which is 50 feet long).

I am seriously going to have to look at projectors...after an hour at AVS forum I have found more concerns with LCD than I had originally thought. I am losing the potential Rainbows of DLP in exchange for the Potential Vertical Banding and increased Screen Door Effect. While my current DLP has lower res, I still have to get about 5 feet from the image to see it. Seeing as the main viewing location ( My Sofa ) is about 12 feet from the screen I am usually good, but there are two other seats that are more like 7 feet from the screen. Without actually going and standing 5 feet from the image.

I am fairly certain that no matter what I get will be a substancial step forward and frankly I think this time I will spring for the extended warranty.

John

[teknubic]

Originally Posted by jptaz

after an hour at AVS forum I have found more concerns with LCD than I had originally thought. I am losing the potential Rainbows of DLP in exchange for the Potential Vertical Banding and increased Screen Door Effect.

I have an LCD front projector and have all but eliminated the screen-door effect by bringing it slightly out of focus. Not enough to where you'd look at it and say "Hey, it's fuzzy." but just to where the pixels are butted up against eachother. I'll take pics to post for you if you want.

[jptaz]

What Projector do you have?

Have you seen any evidence of Veritcal Banding?

I definitely would like to see a picture of some text being projected.

From what I reviews I have seen they say the Panasonic PT-AE900U does a better job with the screen door effect than the Z4, but I suspect the Z4 couldbe tweaked a little with the focus.

Thanks,
John

[teknubic]

I have the HS51. Retail on it says $3,500 but I found it for $2,400 shipped; a great deal, IMO.
No Vertical banding. The client is set to 1280x720@60hz. The lens is set ~14' from the screen projecting an image 96"x54". Seating is ~10' away.
My vision is not perfect so I was not able to see the screen-door effect from the seating area -- only when up close and personal was it obvious.
I'll do my best to get an accurate representation in a photo but the best way to experience it is to go to a showroom. We auditioned several front projectors before buying the one we have. I felt a little sick after watching a DLP for more than 10 minutes continuously. A friend chose LCD as well because DLP gave his wife headaches so it's not just me. I know you've said you had gotten used to it but IMO you don't need to with LCD.

[jptaz]

Thanks for the info.

I have adapted to DLP, but honestly a good number of my friends have not.

I will have to see if I can find a dealer to look at the Sony...I did find one for about you did...previously when I looked they were closer to $2800, but if I can get for Sub $2400..I might consider it since the Sonys have historically had less Vertical Band problems.

John

[teknubic]

I'm sorry I haven't taken pictures yet (stoopid hollidays) but I have found exactly what I'm talking about:



Keep in mind that this is up close and personal with the projected image. Stand back a meter and you can't see it.
HTH

[jptaz]

Welll I have seen the PE7700 and several other 720 DLP projectors and I still see raibows...not as bad as my Piano, but I think I am moving to the LCD camp. For less money I can actually get a Panasonic 900 or Sanyo Z4 which has been favorably compared to the PE7700 by a number of sources...some say it does better blacks and contrast than the PE7700 and the worst review half heartily admitted that it was too close to call, but since the reviewer was a DLP guy he leaned slightly in favor of the PE7700.

I am still looking into warranty options since Panasonic only includes 1 year parts and Labor...The Sanyo Z4 has 3 years as does the PE7700. I am more concerned with LCD Projector because of all the failure possibilities...stuck pixels/dead pixels...vertical banding...etc. I have never heard of Vertical Banding, Stuck or Dead Pixels in DLP. I have heard that Panasonic Concerns 5 stuck/dead pixels in a grouping to be the point where they will repair or replace the LCDs.

I guess I should probably not worry that much since there are 3 panels and each pixel will only 1/16" square on my wall...and At 12 foot viewing distance will I really see a Dead pixel even on a pure black or pure white screen?

John

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jptaz

At 12 foot viewing distance will I really see a Dead pixel even on a pure black or pure white screen?

But you don't watch a pure white screen, you watch something, generally darker and more dynamic. There are basically two ways an LCD pixel can fail, it can fail ON, or OFF. If it fails OFF (black) then it's not really a big deal, because it's nearly impossible to detect a black spot in anything. However if it fails ON, even a single pixel could be unacceptable. Just imagine a bright green spot somewhere on your screen.

Unfortunately there's no perfect answer. DLP's have rainbows, LCDs have VB and stuck pixels. Pick your poison as it were.