Make Sage Use Recycle Bin ??

[Humanzee]

I dont use IR and I delete programs after I view them to keep some free space on my drives and keep it easy to manage. I also defragment my drives automatically on a nightly schedule so keeping some free space is important to me. In fact, I use the "Disk Use Monitor" as a measure of how far behind I am in watching my programming. Currently it says I have a lot of work to do..

On occation I accidentally delete a recording and want to restore it. I also havn't had much luck with recovery tools, as others have mentioned. However, I would like the ability to undo these mistakes. I like sleonards description of a possible solution, however, I would add the feature to only keep the "deleted" files actually on the disk for a set amount of time, or to "keep at most" a certain number of deleted programs, say 24-48 hours or 10 deleted programs (user defineable). Then they could be deleted, manually, automatically, or by Sage's need for more disk space. Usually, I know immediately that I have made a mistake. Thus a few hours or only a few programs kept in the delete cache to "recover recently delete recordings" would work for me.

This is a good idea, even if only few of us will use it.

[camshaft]

Originally Posted by Humanzee

I dont use IR and I delete programs after I view them to keep some free space on my drives and keep it easy to manage. I also defragment my drives automatically on a nightly schedule so keeping some free space is important to me. In fact, I use the "Disk Use Monitor" as a measure of how far behind I am in watching my programming. Currently it says I have a lot of work to do..

On occation I accidentally delete a recording and want to restore it. I also havn't had much luck with recovery tools, as others have mentioned. However, I would like the ability to undo these mistakes. I like sleonards description of a possible solution, however, I would add the feature to only keep the "deleted" files actually on the disk for a set amount of time, or to "keep at most" a certain number of deleted programs, say 24-48 hours or 10 deleted programs (user defineable). Then they could be deleted, manually, automatically, or by Sage's need for more disk space. Usually, I know immediately that I have made a mistake. Thus a few hours or only a few programs kept in the delete cache to "recover recently delete recordings" would work for me.

This is a good idea, even if only few of us will use it.

This is exactly what I would like to have, and I really like the idea to use the same code as the archived recordings with a few changes but I have not even atempted to use studio yet due to the time it will take me to learn how it works.

[Hector]

I can see how the logic of this is elusive because its one of those things that 'on paper' might not seem to make any sense but this was one of the most popular features of TivoWeb. When you 'delete' a show in Tivo it appears gone forever to the user but in reality it's just flagged for deleletion and then deleted by the system when space is needed (all hidden from the user). The tool that allowed users to 'rescue' these shows was really popular and people would install Tivoweb just for that purpose (as it was the easiest canned method).

peace . . .

[camshaft]

I just guess that the moderators are sooo PERFECT they never need an easy way to reverse a delete. It just makes more sence to use the features built into the os than to add a separate utility that can not even garantee it can revive the files you want. That is why I do not like the suggestions saying that I can download some stupid program to replace functionality that shoude be an option in the software anyway.

[Humanzee]

I think that the problem is that Sage wouldn't be able to remove things from the recycle bin in order to make more room. It should be a Sage feature not an OS feature.

An equivalent to using the recycle bin would be to automatically move show listings to a seperate menu folder like "archived recording", accept that they would still be marked for deletion when space is needed.

FWIW I think this thread should be renamed to not reflect the "recycle bin" Then maybe it would get more attention from the stv developers. Or maybe we need a new thread titled "Multi Function Delete"

I like my scenario above best, but that is just me.

[Hector]

I think that's exactly right.

peace . . .

Originally Posted by Humanzee

It should be a Sage feature not an OS feature.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Hector

I can see how the logic of this is elusive because its one of those things that 'on paper' might not seem to make any sense but this was one of the most popular features of TivoWeb. When you 'delete' a show in Tivo it appears gone forever to the user but in reality it's just flagged for deleletion and then deleted by the system when space is needed (all hidden from the user). The tool that allowed users to 'rescue' these shows was really popular and people would install Tivoweb just for that purpose (as it was the easiest canned method).

peace . . .

When letting Sage auto delete when space is needed an undelete wouldn't work because the show would be overwritten very soon after deletion.

The main reason I manually delete is to keep as much free space available as possible, to reduce fragmentation. If the shows were still sitting on my hard drive then manually deleting them wouldn't be doing me much good. The way Sage handles manually deleted recordings really doesn't need to be messed with. What you all are asking for sounds like a modification to how auto deleted shows are handled.

It sounds like what you all want is an option for Sage to remove the recordings from the recordings list but not actually delete them. Then Sage's auto delete function would only delete shows that you have removed from the recordings list when free space is needed. Of course a way to restore the shows back to the recordings list would also be needed.

You don't really need a way to "recover" a deleted recording. You just need it removed from the list so that you don't see it. Then for Sage to actually delete it when space is needed.

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by blade

It sounds like what you all want is an option for Sage to remove the recordings from the recordings list but not actually delete them. Then Sage's auto delete function would only delete shows that you have removed from the recordings list when free space is needed. Of course a way to restore the shows back to the recordings list would also be needed.

You don't really need a way to "recover" a deleted recording. You just need it removed from the list so that you don't see it. Then for Sage to actually delete it when space is needed.

That's a different way of putting it but, yes, that's essentially what my solution would do. Of course, that's also the way the Windows Recycle bin works as well. Except that Windows doesn't autodelete items from the bin when it needs space.

[cineburk]

Ummm...did anything ever happen with this? I have had a few instances of deleting a file and later finding out my wife or kids wanted to watch it. Something like this would be perfect.

[blade]

Originally Posted by cineburk

Ummm...did anything ever happen with this? I have had a few instances of deleting a file and later finding out my wife or kids wanted to watch it. Something like this would be perfect.

There was another thread on this earlier today and the answer is still no.

[geogecko]

Originally Posted by blade

When letting Sage auto delete when space is needed an undelete wouldn't work because the show would be overwritten very soon after deletion.

The main reason I manually delete is to keep as much free space available as possible, to reduce fragmentation. If the shows were still sitting on my hard drive then manually deleting them wouldn't be doing me much good. The way Sage handles manually deleted recordings really doesn't need to be messed with. What you all are asking for sounds like a modification to how auto deleted shows are handled.

It sounds like what you all want is an option for Sage to remove the recordings from the recordings list but not actually delete them. Then Sage's auto delete function would only delete shows that you have removed from the recordings list when free space is needed. Of course a way to restore the shows back to the recordings list would also be needed.

You don't really need a way to "recover" a deleted recording. You just need it removed from the list so that you don't see it. Then for Sage to actually delete it when space is needed.

There is a lot of good information in this post.

Some comments.

The main reason I manually delete is to keep as much free space available as possible, to reduce fragmentation. If the shows were still sitting on my hard drive then manually deleting them wouldn't be doing me much good.

I only hope you don't defrag your video recording drive...there really isn't a point, since the video files get fragged almost instantly, and you're just providing wear and tear on your hard drive for almost no benefit. I've never defragged mine in over a year now.

As for the last part of your post, this is a very good point, but what about this?

Instead of worrying about deleting shows, or flagging them as deleted, why doesn't SageTV just build in a filter, to where it filters out all "Watched" shows. Then, you could go into recordings, "Watched Shows" and see the ones that have been watched, in case the wife wants to watch it.

That seems like the easiest, and most straight forward way to do it, and of course, letting Sage take care of deleting when it needs to.

[popechild]

Originally Posted by geogecko

Instead of worrying about deleting shows, or flagging them as deleted, why doesn't SageTV just build in a filter, to where it filters out all "Watched" shows. Then, you could go into recordings, "Watched Shows" and see the ones that have been watched, in case the wife wants to watch it.

That seems like the easiest, and most straight forward way to do it, and of course, letting Sage take care of deleting when it needs to.

I'm not personally that worried about having an un-delete option, but I can understand those who do, and in my opinion this solution would not be what they are looking for. The reason is that you're just assuming that everyone would automatically want to remove the "watched" shows from the recordings list, or into a different list, when there are plenty of reasons people may want to keep a show around and then only delete it at a later time.

I have shows end up flagged as "watched" plenty of times where I didn't actually watch the show - maybe it was on live tv when it was recorded and I was doing something else, or I ff'd through it at one point to look for something but didn't actually watch it yet. In your suggestion, this would then move automatically to a different "watched" list, and I would either never see it, or I would have to make a practice of always looking through both lists to find what I was looking for.

The "un-delete" functionality (like what tivo has now) is good for people who like to maintain more control than letting Sage automatically do everything. Yes, Sage will auto-delete when it runs out of room, but personally I don't like figuring out exactly how I want to set every show's deletion preference and then worry about whether or not something's going to be deleted before I want it to while something else I don't care as much about is still sitting there. So I'm one of the people that goes through and deletes shows manually all the time. (But NOT just every time I watch a show the first time, like "watched" status). I don't care about un-delete because I haven't really accidentally deleted things I needed back, but I'm sure I would want it if/when I do.

You are right about it basically just being a way for people to remove it from their recordings list so 1) they don't have to wade through so many recordings, and 2) they've basically told Sage that it's okay to delete those files whenever Sage wants. But perhaps this isn't easy for some people to understand because you're thinking about it from a functionality standpoint and not a useability standpoint. All people are thinking about is useability - "I delete shows when I feel like it, and sometimes I make a mistake and want to get one back. I don't care how it works."

[camshaft]

I'm not personally that worried about having an un-delete option, but I can understand those who do, and in my opinion this solution would not be what they are looking for. The reason is that you're just assuming that everyone would automatically want to remove the "watched" shows from the recordings list, or into a different list, when there are plenty of reasons people may want to keep a show around and then only delete it at a later time.

I have shows end up flagged as "watched" plenty of times where I didn't actually watch the show - maybe it was on live tv when it was recorded and I was doing something else, or I ff'd through it at one point to look for something but didn't actually watch it yet. In your suggestion, this would then move automatically to a different "watched" list, and I would either never see it, or I would have to make a practice of always looking through both lists to find what I was looking for.

The "un-delete" functionality (like what tivo has now) is good for people who like to maintain more control than letting Sage automatically do everything. Yes, Sage will auto-delete when it runs out of room, but personally I don't like figuring out exactly how I want to set every show's deletion preference and then worry about whether or not something's going to be deleted before I want it to while something else I don't care as much about is still sitting there. So I'm one of the people that goes through and deletes shows manually all the time. (But NOT just every time I watch a show the first time, like "watched" status). I don't care about un-delete because I haven't really accidentally deleted things I needed back, but I'm sure I would want it if/when I do.

You are right about it basically just being a way for people to remove it from their recordings list so 1) they don't have to wade through so many recordings, and 2) they've basically told Sage that it's okay to delete those files whenever Sage wants. But perhaps this isn't easy for some people to understand because you're thinking about it from a functionality standpoint and not a useability standpoint. All people are thinking about is useability - "I delete shows when I feel like it, and sometimes I make a mistake and want to get one back. I don't care how it works."

This is exactly the point I tried to make when I started this thread, but I am not so good with words!!!

[sennbj]

In my past Tivo life I deleted shows on accident occasionally just out of habit, with sage I have only manually deleted a couple shows, but it would have been nice to be able to recover them.

My real rub is the auto delete priority. Take for example last week, I took my wife on vacation and left my father to house sit with my daughter. They watched a couple of the shows from last week that I had missed editing the favorites for and they got auto deleted because I had not manually gone in and changed them to manual delete (I did with most of my favorites). Now, I have hours and hours and hours of intelligent recordings that no one will ever watch that I would prefer get removed before a favorite that just so happens to be flagged 'watched'. I have an MVP for my boys that mostly gets used to watch cartoons, but occasionally they will start up something that is on the recorded list, then find out they are not interested and just turn off their TV... Poof, watched gets flagged and the next suggested recording of Tom and Jerry overwrites a show that is on the favorites list and has not actually been watched.

Same goes for my Daughter, she uses Sage Client to watch some of the same shows we do in the living room and before I got all my favorites edited, shows would just disappear, but heck I still had like 75 episodes of intelligent recorded Sponge Bob.

Please, Please, delete Intelligent Recordings before anything else, then start digging into favorites that have been watched, or better yet, just do it by date when it comes to favorites (first in first out, after all the intelligent recordings are gone)! If there is a switch in the properties files to do that I would be a happy guy!!

[blade]

Originally Posted by geogecko

I only hope you don't defrag your video recording drive...there really isn't a point, since the video files get fragged almost instantly, and you're just providing wear and tear on your hard drive for almost no benefit. I've never defragged mine in over a year now.

I never defrag and it has been almost 2 years. I was just pointing out that you have less fragmentation by freeing up more space, which in turn should be a little less wear and tear on the drives.