SageTV Client Issues

[RickD]

I'm a newcomer to SageTV, and have been trying to use SageTV (in service mode) along with a SageTV Client to distribute TV with PVR control (like pausing live programs) to various computers around the house. At this time, the SageTV service runs on a HTPC in the family room, and I access the TV feed with a computer running the Client in another room. If this worked ok, I would eventually use additional clients in other rooms. We don't have great broadcast reception, and only use a single DirectTV system that feeds into a Hauppaugge PVR-150 in the HTPC. We don't watch enough TV to justify more than one satellite system.

The default (and perhaps the only) Client behavior makes the above system almost useless. There is no problem if only the HTPC is running live TV or if only some other Client is running live TV, but when the HTPC and a Client are both running live TV, they prevent each other from changing the channel.

I understand that you have to handle the single tuner situation somehow, and that the designers may have thought that someone should not be able to switch channels while someone else is watching, but this makes the Clients almost useless for distributing TV around the house. With this mutual lock-out system all the parties watching live TV around the house have to agree to get off live TV in order to change channels.

This has zero Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF). When she is watching the HTPC, sometimes she can change the channel and sometimes she can't. And when she can't, she has to get me to sleep the Sage Client in another room. This would be even worse if we had multiple Clients up.

I would love to find out that there is some way to reconfigure the existing system to avoid this problem (a second satellite system is not in the cards, and does not fix the basic problem. Whenever you have more clients than tuners, you have this issue).

If there is no workaround, Sage should seriously consider improving the clients in this area. The ideal solution would be to let any client that is using a particular tuner to fully control that tuner (perhaps with a warning message that there are other users of that tuner). A more limited alternative would be to allow one client (perhaps the first to start using a tuner) to fully control the tuner. This would allow that HTPC to always control live TV (so long it was started first), while other clients could "observe" live TV on other computers. Almost anything would be better than the current situation.

If there are no workarounds for this, I'm at least hoping to start a dialogue with this post. I love Sage as a single computer PVR, but was shocked when I discovered this client behavior.

Rick

[gplasky]

I'm not seeing this as a popular option. If it was then everyone would only buy 1 satellite or cable box for their house and connect all the TV's up to it. It might be nice as an option but I would suggest putting up a poll to see how much interest is in it. Maybe as a workaround try to put another tuner in the PC and split if off your satellite feed and just set the new tuner for one channel. Then it would always show whatever is on the satellite. There may be some drawbacks to that. Not sure.

Gerry

[Mahoney]

I'd have thought that if anyone else was watching Live TV on a different client, and you try to change channel, a dialogue should pop-up on the other client(s) asking their permission to change the channel. If any of them click "no", this is reported to you. If no response is recieved in, say, 15 seconds, the other client is assumed to have said yes.

[toricred]

I personally really like the idea of the pop-up. That would be perfect for me.

[stevech]

I'd vote for a simple pop-up that says "<pcname> changed the live TV channel"

and let the people sort it out from there.

[ke6guj]

the easiest solution.... MORE TUNERS!!!!!

[nielm]

even easier: never watch liveTV

[RickD]

Originally Posted by gplasky

I'm not seeing this as a popular option. If it was then everyone would only buy 1 satellite or cable box for their house and connect all the TV's up to it. It might be nice as an option but I would suggest putting up a poll to see how much interest is in it. Maybe as a workaround try to put another tuner in the PC and split if off your satellite feed and just set the new tuner for one channel. Then it would always show whatever is on the satellite. There may be some drawbacks to that. Not sure.

Gerry

Gerry, this problem will happen with multiple tuners, if there are more clients than tuners. In a house with a HTPC and three other computers, even with two satellite channels the clients are going to lock each other all the time. What really bothers me (feeding into that WAF) is that the HTPC can get unexpectedly locked up, and then you have to figure out which client in which room is causing the problem. In my existing system, TVs around the house can access a single Satellite feed through cable and anyone can change the channel and control the system with IR repeaters. I want to get rid of the TVs and use the computer monitors (and this surely must be the kind of thing that Sage as a company wants to encourage) for all household video distribution, but the clients need some work.

Rick

[blade]

Originally Posted by RickD

Gerry, this problem will happen with multiple tuners, if there are more clients than tuners. In a house with a HTPC and three other computers, even with two satellite channels the clients are going to lock each other all the time. What really bothers me (feeding into that WAF) is that the HTPC can get unexpectedly locked up, and then you have to figure out which client in which room is causing the problem. In my existing system, TVs around the house can access a single Satellite feed through cable and anyone can change the channel and control the system with IR repeaters. I want to get rid of the TVs and use the computer monitors (and this surely must be the kind of thing that Sage as a company wants to encourage) for all household video distribution, but the clients need some work.

Rick

The best solution (unless Sage changes something) is to not watch live TV. Having the same thing displayed on every TV in the house isn't all that appealing to most people. I think the majority of users rarely watch live TV. I would think the biggest benefit in your situation would be the ability to watch something different on each TV despite only having one receiver thanks to the recordings. The ability to simply pause live TV is one of the least valuable features of a PVR when you look at everything else they can do.

You said you're new to Sage so your viewing habits probably haven't changed much yet. I used to watch a lot of live TV and channel surf. Now that I have +50 favorites setup I watch live TV maybe once a month for an hour or two. I have more than enough recorded material to watch.

[roofus]

Originally Posted by blade

You said you're new to Sage so your viewing habits probably haven't changed much yet. I used to watch a lot of live TV and channel surf. Now that I have +50 favorites setup I watch live TV maybe once a month for an hour or two. I have more than enough recorded material to watch.

I'd have to second that, give the PVR functionality a try. If you really just want one channel always live on all tvs, they make A/V transmitters way cheaper than SageTV clients (computer form or otherwise). I think you might be using the wrong tool for the job you're trying to do. Using a screwdriver on a nail isn't a great way of doing things.

SageTV is a great PVR, give it a try, record the wifes fav shows in advance, and use Comskip or show analyzer to take out the commercials, do this and the WAF will skyrocket in a positive direction.

Just my two cents...

[RickD]

Originally Posted by blade

The best solution (unless Sage changes something) is to not watch live TV. Having the same thing displayed on every TV in the house isn't all that appealing to most people. I think the majority of users rarely watch live TV. I would think the biggest benefit in your situation would be the ability to watch something different on each TV despite only having one receiver thanks to the recordings. The ability to simply pause live TV is one of the least valuable features of a PVR when you look at everything else they can do.

You said you're new to Sage so your viewing habits probably haven't changed much yet. I used to watch a lot of live TV and channel surf. Now that I have +50 favorites setup I watch live TV maybe once a month for an hour or two. I have more than enough recorded material to watch.

I can imagine watching much more recorded TV over time. On the other hand, if Sage is going to offer Clients, they might as well do it right and I think it's useful to provide feedback. More importantly, my wife is not interested in playing with technology, and is far more likely to stick with live TV. It seems perverse that the only time you should not watch TV through Sage is when the TV is live.

As for Roofus' comment, you don't record my wife's favorites in advance . If she wants to see a show, she wants to see it as soon as it hits the air. I do see this evolving over time, but, really, the point is that this Client behavior can be changed, and it's a win for everyone. I haven't heard anyone say that mutual lock out is a good idea.

Rick

[blade]

Originally Posted by RickD

I can imagine watching much more recorded TV over time. On the other hand, if Sage is going to offer Clients, they might as well do it right and I think it's useful to provide feedback.

Well some would argue that the client does do it right. If I'm watching something and someone else changed the channel on me from another client I wouldn't be too pleased. Everyone has their own needs and wants I guess.

[rfutscher]

Originally Posted by blade

Well some would argue that the client does do it right. If I'm watching something and someone else changed the channel on me from another client I wouldn't be too pleased. Everyone has their own needs and wants I guess.

That is why it needs to be an option. Add it to the configuration.