Possible group buy of Ardence Desktop (Diskless PC)

[AndersNolberger]

Hello

I have been in contact with a local distributer of Ardence Desktop. That is a program that makes it possible to use Windows XP without a hard drive and instead use network boot to boot an image on a server on the network.

There has been discussions about this in a thread in the SageTV Linux forum but I take up this question here since it is of topic there.

I have asked if we could get a better price if we buy more licenses and got the question back about how many we are talking about.

The list price is approximately $250 for a one client license.

My question to you is if you are interested in this software and how much you are willing to pay.

You can read more about the software at http://www.ardence.com/enterprise/products.aspx?ID=83

I have no connection to this company at all but I have run a succesful test for a couple of days and i am going to buy it for myself.

Anders Nolberger

[PGPfan]

Hi Anders,

You know (hopefully) that I'd be interested. As for pricing, my memory wasn't quite as good as I thought regarding the AVSforum group purchase. When they did it, turns out they got 3-client licenses for $250. Very much worth the price for those that got it.

Might I suggest that you create a Gmail accout specifically for people to send an email 'of interest' to so that it'd be easier for you rather than filling a thread with both questions, and posts of intent. Also would make it easy to 'bulk email' all parties regarding where and when to send payment, etc.

To those that are considering it, or are on the fence-this really is about the perfect software to have for the HTPC environment.

-PGPfan

[chrisc16]

I would be interested in a group buy on this as well. Just tell me where to sign up!

-Chris

[PGPfan]

Anders, another thing to consider is if we negotiate a 'bundle' (like the 3-clients for $whatever), try to get pricing for each additional client we could add. I think a lot of people would expand this to all their PC's once they experience it on their HTPC's.

Just thinking out loud.

-PGPfan

[Jesse]

Hi,

Ok, speak slowly and carefully so I can understand. What is the advantage here? How does this apply to sage?

TIA

PFC. Pyle

[PGPfan]

Hi Jesse,

It basically allows your Sage client (and server if you use external storage) to operate without a hard drive inside! No noise, no moving parts, no fuss, no mess, nada. It appears to work amazingly well (several forum members have tried it and raved about it).

Also makes maintaining your clients much easier since you only patch/update one 'image' of the OS and then re-boot all your clients and they automatically get the updates.

Does this explaination make any sense to you?

-PGPfan

[Deadbolt]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Hi Jesse,

It basically allows your Sage client (and server if you use external storage) to operate without a hard drive inside! No noise, no moving parts, no fuss, no mess, nada. It appears to work amazingly well (several forum members have tried it and raved about it).

Also makes maintaining your clients much easier since you only patch/update one 'image' of the OS and then re-boot all your clients and they automatically get the updates.

Does this explaination make any sense to you?

-PGPfan

At ~$83.33 per license + the cost of the actual PC to run the software what is the advantage of this over using a MediaMVP (~$90) with the Media Extender ($30)? The media extender also is on the server (consolidated updates and backup point). And while this software runs without a drive (no HDD noise) you will still have to take care to silence the CPU fan, case fans, and power supply fan of a client using the Ardence software. The mediaMVP is silent. The only benefit I can see right now is being able to display HD content...and hopefully we'll get a media extender in the future for that as well.

I'm just trying to understand the advantages in this type of environment.

Thanks!

[AndyS]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

At ~$83.33 per license + the cost of the actual PC to run the software what is the advantage of this over using a MediaMVP (~$90) with the Media Extender ($30)? The media extender also is on the server (consolidated updates and backup point). And while this software runs without a drive (no HDD noise) you will still have to take care to silence the CPU fan, case fans, and power supply fan of a client using the Ardence software. The mediaMVP is silent. The only benefit I can see right now is being able to display HD content...and hopefully we'll get a media extender in the future for that as well.

I'm just trying to understand the advantages in this type of environment.

Thanks!

All very valid points. The big difference is that the MVP uses the resources of the server to run the Sage app (although that doesn't include the MPEG decoding as the MVP can do that itself), but with Ardence the client PC itself runs the Sage app, freeing up server resources. Also, the MVP doesn't support DVD playback whereas Ardence would allow this (because it's just a normal PC from a software perspective).

I am building a diskless, fanless PC (based on an EPIA ME6000) that would be perfect with Ardence. This is a cool technology....

Andy.

[PGPfan]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

At ~$83.33 per license + the cost of the actual PC to run the software what is the advantage of this over using a MediaMVP (~$90) with the Media Extender ($30)? The media extender also is on the server (consolidated updates and backup point). And while this software runs without a drive (no HDD noise) you will still have to take care to silence the CPU fan, case fans, and power supply fan of a client using the Ardence software. The mediaMVP is silent. The only benefit I can see right now is being able to display HD content...and hopefully we'll get a media extender in the future for that as well.

I'm just trying to understand the advantages in this type of environment.

Thanks!

Hi Deadbolt,

This is one of the things that is kind of hard to explain (much like Tivo's are until you use one ). Basically what makes this far superior to the MVP (I have 2 of them) is that it is your full blown PC. You have unlimited potential for HD right NOW. You can use existing equipment you already have. You can repurpose your existing HD into a media server and run diskless in your client. There are many other advantages (upgrade ease, etc.) that are hard to describe, but trust me they are there.

As for the 'coming' HD extender, don't get your hopes up. I always support Sage and think they are overwhelmingly the best PVR app out there but keep in mind that (for me at least) I've had my MVP's for a couple years since Jeff and Dan first mentioned them and look how long it's taken to get support. HD isn't going to be any different (except I doubt we'll see a user developed plug-in like Matt made for the MVP) so this concept is real, and here today.

Remember, you don't have to get it if you don't feel it will benefit you.

-PGPfan

[Jesse]

Hi,

PFC Pyle thanks you PGPfan. I can definitely see where you guys are coming from.

Question: I will still need a seperate OS for each diskless client, correct? I could not operate more than one client on a single OS image could I?

Deadbolt: Very valid. One would still need a fan for the processor, even if the vid card and psu were passively cooled. Your points regarding the MVP are well taken. I am using one now and am quite pleased with it. Alot of value for the money.


That being said, if an HD/DVD capable extender does not become available in the near future then my next client will have to be a full on pc. Because of where that client will be I will most likely put the pc in the basement, so noise will not be an issue. With noise not a factor I dont think this product will be an advantage in my application. If I had to put a pc in my family room I would be looking much harder at this.

Thanks again folks.

Jesse

[sleonard]

My next client will need to be a PC client. It will be connected to an HDTV and I also will be adding some HD tuners to the server. A full blown but diskless PC client will give me DVD and HD playback as well as WMA, WMV, DivX playback. None of which is supported natively on the MVP so I will also avoid any transcoding hit on the server's CPU.

I like PC clients since they give you more control of the components and SW running on them and they are also fun projects. The downsides are the increased cost and that a well designed HD extender might have specialized hardware not available to a PC builder.

So, I guess I'm interested. I'm even thinking of several licenses for future PC clients. What do we do to get in on this?

[sleonard]

Just thought of something else even though it's probably not feasable. It might be nice if Sage themselves could get licenses for resale in their store. That way we wouldn't need to buy more than we need right away and could still purchase more when we build future PC clients.

[AndersNolberger]

I am thinking of getting one of this: http://www.hifiatx.com/hfx.php?lang=EN. then I don't need any fans at all in the pc and it will be completely silent.

Right now I am only asking to see if there will be enough interest for Ardence to be willing to make a special price for us. If I see enough interest here and after talking to the seller I will get back with information about how to go to the next step.

Anders

[PGPfan]

Anders, my man!

I too have been looking at that case (it's stunning isn't it!). The trouble I'm having is trying to find one at a reasonable cost. I've been looking into a group buy on it as well (manufacturer has a minimum order of a pallet 20pcs.) but I haven't found a US distributor willing to work with me yet.

I have found some willing to get it for me for $500+, but talking to the maker it should be able to be had in the neighborhood of $290 if bought in the before mentioned quantity. Do you happen to know of anyone who might be able to supply me with one of those cases for a more reasonable price than $500 USD? I'm dying to get one.

-PGPfan

[AndersNolberger]

Since I live in Sweden it would be difficult to cooperate on that one due to it's weight!

Did you notice that the link is not to the old HFX but for a new case called HFX mini. I think the new case is much nicer looking and definetely a better size for a HTPC.

Anders

[PGPfan]

WOW, I just noticed the 'mini' version of the hifiatx case. I was referring to the C30. I prefer the larger one, but the little guy is kind of nice as well.

-PGPfan

[Deadbolt]

Originally Posted by PGPfan

Hi Deadbolt,

This is one of the things that is kind of hard to explain (much like Tivo's are until you use one ). Basically what makes this far superior to the MVP (I have 2 of them) is that it is your full blown PC. You have unlimited potential for HD right NOW. You can use existing equipment you already have. You can repurpose your existing HD into a media server and run diskless in your client. There are many other advantages (upgrade ease, etc.) that are hard to describe, but trust me they are there.

As for the 'coming' HD extender, don't get your hopes up. I always support Sage and think they are overwhelmingly the best PVR app out there but keep in mind that (for me at least) I've had my MVP's for a couple years since Jeff and Dan first mentioned them and look how long it's taken to get support. HD isn't going to be any different (except I doubt we'll see a user developed plug-in like Matt made for the MVP) so this concept is real, and here today.

Remember, you don't have to get it if you don't feel it will benefit you.

-PGPfan

Well, good luck with this buy but I'm not convinced it is best for me. For one...I don't have any HDTVs so that is not a concern for me for the next year at least. Playing DVDs ON THE BOX means nothing as a $30 DVD player works just fine Also, playing Windows Media, DiVX, XVid, ect. have all worked flawlessly transcoded...and I have only an old AMD Athlon 3200+ for a server. I just don't see the cost justification for my situation...especially if you start talking $500 for just the silent case

I will be following this thread though as I think this software would be great for an office environment.

[briands]

Quick question -I've been too lazy this morning, I'll post first, then go read the linked page.

1- Hardware? Since an OS image is hardware dependant (drivers, etc), must all clients be the same hardware?

2- Licenses? OS or even sage client - how are unique keys, etc managed? What about config files?

I REALLY like the administation simplification, especially as the number of full PC clients grow.

Would this software (or any other) work to automatically distribute idle resources? Show analyzer or transcoding for instance?

[AndersNolberger]

I am no expert on this software and since I have only tested with 1 client I really don't have an answer but.

You can run Ardence in two "modes", shared or private. In shared mode all client share the same master disk image and the hardware must be identical. But I think that you can have some parts individual like software keys and such, don't ask me how.

In private mode every client has it's own image and the client can be different.

I think that you can mix clients of both types on the same server.

Anders

[footmasta]

This sounds like it would be a good starting point. What would you need to do just put a copy of Sageclient on there and your done? . I am still a little confused, I guess you would flash a OS on a like a CF card? You still have to buy a nice remote to make it feel like a media extender