Using the AccessDTV HDTV Card w/ SageTV

[Narflex]

Howdy.

I've decided to release a patch for SageTV 1.4.10 that enables *experimental* recording with the AccessDTV HDTV card. I wrote this a couple months ago, and it works fairly well in my testing, but use it at your own risk. This is NOT a commitment to supporting the AccessDTV card. I'm simply posting this because I see no reason to keep it to myself and there's a decent chance people can make use of the work....and you might even get it fully working in your setup.

Instructions
---------------------------------
1.This patch requires SageTV or SageRecorder 1.4.10 to be installed first. Then download and extract http://sage.tv/SageDLL1.4.10PatchADTV.zip to your SageRecorder or SageTV folder. Overwrite the Sage.dll file that's already there.

2. Upgrade to the V2.5 ADTV drivers, it won't work with any earlier version

3. Copy the JanusPSI.dll file from the ADTV folder to the SageTV or SageRecorder folder.

You will need to have a software MPEG2 HDTV-capable decoder installed on your system for this to work.

The card will show up as "Janus Capture Device". The only known problem is if you try to watch a channel with bad reception it might crash Sage because the MPEG2 data gets severely corrupted in this situation and Sage can only handle so much corruption at this point before it gets sick.

You'll also see the hardware decoder listed. You can try it, and it might work for you...I have had it working in testing. If you try to use it while recording, you will get a BSOD. Even though the hardware is capable of recording & playing back at the same time...the way that the driver allows this is not currently compatible with Sage's multimedia architecture.

Have fun.

[StylinLP]

Wonderfull news. After I resolve my basic SageTV functionality my next project is to install AccessDTV card. Glad to see there may be a solution for this.

[Chuck Coughlin]

This is great news!!!!! I cannot wait to try this. I am willing to pay a premium for HDTV support if it will make any difference in the development cycle. You made my week!

Question though:

What decoder were you using with what video card. What were (are) your system spec's? Any insight into this would be very helpful.

[Narflex]

Chuck,

This is where you'll have to play around the most to see what works for you. I'm using the MPEG2 decoders that came with the ADTV card. They're not registered by default, but take a look and you'll find the DVD Express Audio & Video Decoders in your ADTV folder. From DOS run regsvr32 on them and you'll be able to use those decoders in Sage.

My video card is a GeForce MX440SE. The CPU is an AthlonXP 1800+.

Have fun.

[mkerdman]

Hey Jeff - Very cool I'd love to try it.

The link above does not work, however.


Thanks,


Murray Kerdman

[JJarmoc]

Sweet, time for me to go buy an HD card.

[dkardatzke]

I just updated the link, should work now.

[rotaryracer]

Guys, this is GREAT news! Thank you for releasing this patch!

So, if I understand correctly, you can schedule shows on the AccessDTV using the Sage interface and the recordings show up as normal?

For playback through software decoding, can this be done directly through Sage or do you need to jump out and run them through a 3rd party app?

If I run the onboard hardware decoder, will this require sending the output out of the AccessDTV? I'm assuming software decoding would let me output via the video card connection (similar to PVR-250). If I use the hardware decoder, do I need to use the AccessDTV breakout cable? I'd like to use the DVI out on my Radeon and not have to goof with two separate video connections.

Thanks Sage!

[Narflex]

rotaryracer,

The files will show up in Sage as normal and you can play them back through Sage also using software decoding.

The onboard hardware decoder is somewhat functional with this patch, but not that usable. Stick with the software decoding if you're going to try to use this.

[djg]

Jeff,

This is really great news and I am anxious to try it. You mention it requires the version 2.5 drivers - there were actually two versions. The first is dated 10/25/02 and the second 11/7/02. Both have the same driver version 4.10.1.52 but show the different dates in device manager when installed. I don''t know what the difference is except that the 11/7 drivers cause an instant reboot when tuning one of the Chicago HDTV stations. I have no issues with the 10/25 version so use that. Can you comment on which dated version you are using?

Thanks,

Dave

[LaVike]

Is it true that the AccessDTV card records in a non-standard format and that you have to use the AccessDTV card or some kind of proprietary AccessDTV software to play recording? From searching on hear and AVS it is confusing how this card works. Being able to record TV, archive to DVD, and then play back a DVD is a great benefit of SageTV. I hope this doesn't change when the HDTV capabilities are added.

Also, for the smart folks out there, what does an HDTV DirectTV or cable box output? Is it a digital or analog stream? If digital, is it some standard format?

Thanks!

Nils

[JJarmoc]

As far as I've heard, the AccessDTV captures a standard .ts stream like any other HD capture card. Mine is still on order, so I may not be right, but that's my impression thus far.

As for the output of DirectTV or a cable box, it's analog. As has been discussed here before, there's nothing currently available that can capture this and make it available on the PCI bus.

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by JJarmoc
As far as I've heard, the AccessDTV captures a standard .ts stream like any other HD capture card. Mine is still on order, so I may not be right, but that's my impression thus far.

As for the output of DirectTV or a cable box, it's analog. As has been discussed here before, there's nothing currently available that can capture this and make it available on the PCI bus.

The .TS files written by SageTV should be standard .TS streams like any other HD capture card.

AccessDTV files were previously encrypted and had a proprietary file scheme.

Upon the pending release of the next version of the AccessDTV software it will create standard .TS streams like any other HD capture card.


Murray Kerdman

[LaVike]

Thanks for the very fast responses! Very informative! So to make sure no good deed goes unpunished, I have some more questions about this card.

The iTech site references handling analog and digital inputs. Can I replace my PVR250 with this card or is it doing SW MPEG2 encoding?

I have other questions about the card. Read most of the long thread on AVS but that's talking about SW features that are being added. The iTech site isn't very helpful. Is there a better source. Basically I want to output via DVI from my video card to my HDTV. Can I do this or do I need to use one of the outputs on the AccessDTV card.

Just to make this about SageTV, the only reason I'm considering this is I want to use SageTV with all this stuff. Sorry if its gotten off topic.

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by LaVike
Thanks for the very fast responses! Very informative! So to make sure no good deed goes unpunished, I have some more questions about this card.

The iTech site references handling analog and digital inputs. Can I replace my PVR250 with this card or is it doing SW MPEG2 encoding?


>>>> No. accessDTV only does NTSC viewing, no recording.


I have other questions about the card. Read most of the long thread on AVS but that's talking about SW features that are being added. The iTech site isn't very helpful. Is there a better source. Basically I want to output via DVI from my video card to my HDTV. Can I do this or do I need to use one of the outputs on the AccessDTV card.


>>>> DVI output may be possible with SageTV SW playback of (1) .TS files it or the (2) "To-Be-Released accessDTV" files each create.


Just to make this about SageTV, the only reason I'm considering this is I want to use SageTV with all this stuff. Sorry if its gotten off topic.

Murray Kerdman

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by djg
Jeff,

This is really great news and I am anxious to try it. You mention it requires the version 2.5 drivers - there were actually two versions. The first is dated 10/25/02 and the second 11/7/02. Both have the same driver version 4.10.1.52 but show the different dates in device manager when installed. I don''t know what the difference is except that the 11/7 drivers cause an instant reboot when tuning one of the Chicago HDTV stations. I have no issues with the 10/25 version so use that. Can you comment on which dated version you are using?

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

Just use the Beta Drivers & Software (this is NOT the new release version) that are posted now at accessDTV:

07-Nov-02 V2.5 Beta Drivers (600KB>
accessDTV Drivers.

22-Oct-02 V2.5.02 Beta Software (6.8MB>
accessDTV V2.5.02 Beta

Please send any comments to: beta@accessdtv.com

11-Nov-02 V2.5 Readme File (4KB>
Readme File

http://www.accessdtv.com/accessdtv/downloads.htm

They work well with 2000/XP.

PSIP and sub channel problems do exist and are created by the haphazard coding of certain local stations.

Contact your local broadcaster if you have any problems triggered by sub channel tunning or sub channel switching.

[Narflex]

dig, I'm using the drivers from 11/7.

[djg]

Jeff and Murray,

Thanks for the reply. I installed the trial version a few minutes ago and got it working using the 10/25 drivers I/ve been using. There are a few problems but it works well on NBC, ABC, and PBS. It stutters on CBS and gives me a frozen picture on FOX. I suppose those are more an issue with the way those stations broadcast or the video decoder - I'm using WinDVD Intervideo decoders. This is my first try with SageTV and I am impressed with the interface and how well it does work for an "experimental" version.

I also note some of the Chicago area HDTV broadcasts such as WGN (19), WCIU (27), and WPWR (51) don't show up on the channel listing.

If this is a preview what's to come, I am very happy.

Thanks for releasing this,

Dave

[mkerdman]

Originally posted by djg
Jeff and Murray,

Thanks for the reply. I installed the trial version a few minutes ago and got it working using the 10/25 drivers I/ve been using. There are a few problems but it works well on NBC, ABC, and PBS. It stutters on CBS and gives me a frozen picture on FOX. I suppose those are more an issue with the way those stations broadcast or the video decoder - I'm using WinDVD Intervideo decoders. This is my first try with SageTV and I am impressed with the interface and how well it does work for an "experimental" version.

I also note some of the Chicago area HDTV broadcasts such as WGN (19), WCIU (27), and WPWR (51) don't show up on the channel listing.

If this is a preview what's to come, I am very happy.

Thanks for releasing this,

Dave

Dave,

Very cool.

Try recording a program and playing it back using the pause, review and fast forward keys of SageTV.

Do the same for "live" HDTV.

SageTV is "always" recording, so, try pausing, reviewing and fast forwarding "live" as well.

Then, try closing SageTV and opening accessDTV.

Right click on the FILE button of accessDTV and browse to the directory where your SageTV keeps its "Video" files and try to play back the .TS file SageTV created.

This brings up the DEMO mode of accessDTV which is not fully featured and will only PLAY, PAUSE and STOP .TS files.

When the new release of accessDTV comes out you will be able to PLAY these SageTV created files in accessDTV with all playback features enabled.

Please report back your experiences and impressions.


Murray Kerdman

[RBTConsultants]

OK, got it installed and running with Sage Recorder. Tried it with Intervideo filters and got 100% CPU utilization. Switched to Sonic filters and CPU dropped under 50% with DXVA enabled.

It tunes the tuner and records. However, watching the picture using SageRecorder as the player has issues. For example, it works great with Fox and NBC here in Philly. But a blank picture w/ sound on CBS. ABC looks like about 1 FPS with jerky sound.

However, it does record the TS files nicely no matter the channel, better than AccessDTV because it records one big file instead of a bunch of little ones. This by itself has some value.

I took the .TS files and played them back in Zoomplayer. First I used the ELECARD DMUX. Get picture and sound fine. The problem for me with the Elecard demux has always been that on recordings from some networks it can't seek (skip forward, back slider doesn't work), etc. Things just kinda freeze up. On other networks it works fine.

So, I thought, hey, let me try the Sage demux. Now, when I play back the recorded stream in Zoomplayer, it exhibits the same behavior as Sage Recorder does, depending on which channel the stream was recorded from.

AHAH - as I have continued to contend all along, it is ALL in the DMUX. The decoders play back the TS streams fine, but the DMUXs are not built properly to handle TS streams, so it is a hit or miss proposition whether playback works from a particular channel. I suspect that this will even differ from city to city depending on their local broadcaster's characteristics, such as sub channels, etc.

I have no technical knowledge to know what differentiates these streams nor do I know what challenges would lie in trying to code a DMUX to handle them correctly, nor do I even have a clue how many variations might need to be considered. So, I'm not qualified to do anything more than comment that if all of this is going to work, we need a good DMUX.

I suspect that AccessDTV's DMUX may be the answer, but in Graphedit it's output pin will not connect to the input of any video decoders I have installed. (sonic, Intervideo, Cyberlink, Elecard).

So, I may use this to record since it gives me nice long files which are easier to handle. But it looks like if I want to play them back, it's still a conversion using HDTVTOMPEG2 before I can watch them in Zoomplayer with seek, skip, slider, etc. Because I really need to skip the commercials :-)

Hope somebody gives me an EPG and "watch one thing while something else is recording" soon. First one to the finish line gets my $

Bob