Sports teams "TBA" on Sage but not Zap2It

ToonGal · #1 03-07-2006, 09:16 AM

I love sports, and SageTV is primarily used to track sports and my teams automatically so that I don't have to know about scheduling in advance. I have a favorite "College Basketball California" set so I don't miss any NCAAB games of my alma mater. Worked great all season. (I have an issue that it picks up "Women's College Basketball California" too, and don't have a "NOT Women's" feature, but minor quibble.) The major issue is that SageTV doesn't have the latest / greatest data from Zap2It. For instance, during the NCAAB conference tourneys (and I assume March Madness), they don't have the team info loaded. Worse, they have TBA only info, it will never get picked up as a favorite, and I only get it if I manually program it. (Set for the Pac-10 tourney, already.)

I know it is not a Zap2It issue, because I've tracked the Zap2It site. IT is updated (and cited below). I know it is not an EPG update issue, as my EPG was updated hours ago (and the info below on Zap2It was available for a day or two). I waited to see if it would update automatically, but doesn't look hopeful. My only guess is that SageTV grinds the data from early and never updates it.

Anyone have the same issue? Any workaround around this issue? Any suggestions? Does my analysis seem right? Thanks in advance for any help!

From SageTV:

Quote:

College Basketball
Episode: Pac-10 Tournament, Third Quarterfinal: Teams TBA
Airing: Mar 9, 2006 6:00 PM - 8:30 PM
Duration: 2h 30m
Channel: 40-FSBA
Scheduled to record from 6:00 PM to 10:00 PM (+90m)
Description: From Staples Center in Los Angeles.
Category: Sports event/Basketball - First Run
Language: English
Show ID: EP0009905824

From Zap2It: http://tvlistings2.zap2it.com/progra...ries_id=407143

Quote:

SHOW TITLE: College Basketball
EPISODE: Pac-10 Tournament: California vs. USC
CATEGORY: Sport - Events
SYNOPSIS: Third quarterfinal, from Staples Center in Los Angeles.
CHANNEL: 40 [FSBA]
DATE / TIME: March 9: 6:00PM
Set Reminder
LENGTH: 150 Minutes
NOTES: English

aperry · #2 03-07-2006, 11:58 AM

Sounds to me like SageTV is not querying often enough perhaps. Or, they are not getting updates to this information when they do query from Zap2It (Tribune).

More than likely, when SageTV pulled the data, whenever that was, the teams were TBA. When that changes, I don't know whether they would get the new data or not.

I noticed this anomaly during the football playoffs, teams were listed as TBA even though it had been known for nearly a week who was playing. I did not check Zap2It's data though (I guess I should have).

I wonder if the XMLTV data got updated or not, or if it had the same thing as SageTV.

rsagetv99 · #3 03-07-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToonGal

I love sports, and SageTV is primarily used to track sports and my teams automatically so that I don't have to know about scheduling in advance. I have a favorite "College Basketball California" set so I don't miss any NCAAB games of my alma mater. Worked great all season. (I have an issue that it picks up "Women's College Basketball California" too, and don't have a "NOT Women's" feature, but minor quibble.) The major issue is that SageTV doesn't have the latest / greatest data from Zap2It. For instance, during the NCAAB conference tourneys (and I assume March Madness), they don't have the team info loaded. Worse, they have TBA only info, it will never get picked up as a favorite, and I only get it if I manually program it. (Set for the Pac-10 tourney, already.)

I know it is not a Zap2It issue, because I've tracked the Zap2It site. IT is updated (and cited below). I know it is not an EPG update issue, as my EPG was updated hours ago (and the info below on Zap2It was available for a day or two). I waited to see if it would update automatically, but doesn't look hopeful. My only guess is that SageTV grinds the data from early and never updates it.

Anyone have the same issue? Any workaround around this issue? Any suggestions? Does my analysis seem right? Thanks in advance for any help!

From SageTV:

From Zap2It: http://tvlistings2.zap2it.com/progra...ries_id=407143

Try removing your video source and adding it back in. I think, that Sage does not update the EPG with all changes, but I could be wrong. For example, I wrote a script to add the <previously shown> tag to shows that did not already have it based on certain criteria. When I updated the EPG with this new XMLTV file, the Sage EPG did not show my changes. It wasn't until new shows were added that I saw the changes.

The same theory may apply here. On the other hand, when a show changes time-slots, the EPG has always picked this up (at least for me). Of course, that could be because the time-slot change is planned in advance, and not a last minute change to an existing EPG listing...

aperry · #4 03-07-2006, 02:17 PM

A lot of "whether updates happen" can be due to the provider not providing up-to-date info (though that does not appear to be the case here). A frequent offender for me is Oprah, which shows no current info, rather generic info and description ("Oprah discusses topics before a live studio audience").

ToonGal · #5 03-09-2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aperry

A lot of "whether updates happen" can be due to the provider not providing up-to-date info (though that does not appear to be the case here). A frequent offender for me is Oprah, which shows no current info, rather generic info and description ("Oprah discusses topics before a live studio audience").

An interesting update to my EPG data observations. The show "Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends" has been showing ep "0000" and no data since ABC Family started airing it last week. All eps for a two week span have had no EPG data. Today, without warning, all two weeks were suddenly populated with EP IDs, titles, and full descriptions. The only thing I can summize is that Frey probably DOES crunch all data daily, and only check eps with 0000 for updates.

Anyone from Frey (or in the know) have any input as to how the local Frey EPG data updates? Anyone using XMLTV (or in the know) know if using XMLTV or Frey's DB is interchangable? Thinking of trying XMLTV, just to explore my options, but if I lose all history and/or don't create a compatible history (if I go back to Frey EPG), might not.

Thanks again for any input/insight!

zz5 · #6 03-09-2006, 01:02 PM

I did some testing on this. I found a college basketball game that is on today that is listed "Team TBA" in Sage. This game is "Conference USA Tournament, Fourth Quarterfinal" on CSTV tonight at 8:30 p.m. Central Time. I checked zap2it's website and the game is listed with the teams "Central Florida or East Carolina vs. Houston". I then downloaded the today's data using zap2it DataDirect and these teams were also listed. After that, I forced an EPG update on Sage to make sure that I had the latest data. The data in Sage still does not list the teams for the game. So the conclusion is that both the zap2it website and zap2it DataDirect data is newer than Sage.

The episode numbers updating all at once for a whole series is not necessarily a problem with the way Sage is updating. I've noticed that happens for a lot of shows sometimes, especially when a channel first starts airing them. Even the website for the channel the show's on won't list the episodes titles and then all of the sudden they list the next two weeks. It happens the same way with the zap2it website as well TV Guide's website. It's just that the broadcaster is not putting the data out.

Here is how the game is listed in DataDirect:

<program id="EP0009906159">
<title>College Basketball</title>
<subtitle>Conference USA Tournament: Central Florida or East Carolina vs. Houston</subtitle>
<description>Fourth quarterfinal, from Memphis, Tenn.</description>
<showType>Series</showType>
<series>SH000990</series>
<syndicatedEpisodeNumber>CUSAQTR4</syndicatedEpisodeNumber>
<originalAirDate>2006-03-09</originalAirDate>
</program>

aperry · #7 03-09-2006, 05:07 PM

This is all rather concerning to me. If SageTV is not updating the guide info frequently enough to keep up with this stuff, then that's a problem.

Wakecrash · #8 03-09-2006, 06:08 PM

Yes, that is bad if they are not updating.

mayamaniac · #9 03-09-2006, 08:01 PM

A "Force Update of EPG Now" in Detailed Settings wold be nice.

aperry · #10 03-09-2006, 08:22 PM

True, and you can force an update by disabling then re-enabling a channel.

However, in the scenario that zz5 described, a new pull of the guide was done from Sage and it did not have the latest info, even though Zap2It had already updated their info.

This all comes down to that we as SageTV users are at a disadvantage. Not only do we have to wait for Tribune/Zap2It to update their information with changes like what's described here, we also have to wait for SageTV to update their information.

I hope that something gets worked out where these updates happen in a more timely fashion.

ToonGal · #11 03-12-2006, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToonGal

Anyone from Frey (or in the know) have any input as to how the local Frey EPG data updates? Anyone using XMLTV (or in the know) know if using XMLTV or Frey's DB is interchangable? Thinking of trying XMLTV, just to explore my options, but if I lose all history and/or don't create a compatible history (if I go back to Frey EPG), might not.

Before I just give up on getting an answer to either question, or for a resolution of the problem overall, I figured I'd take one last stab. Didn't want to have the thread just disappear.

Most importantly, if anyone knows, can I use the XMLTV w/ the Frey DB interchangably? If so, then can take matters into my own hands until they fix it, and always have the option to switch back. Also want both sets of history to be mutually compatible. Assume so w/ Zap2It source info, but you never know.

AM curious to know how Frey does it, because the built-in is SO much more convenient (and useful). Is it just once in advance, or is there is some update system to their process on add'l added info.

Thanks for any feedback. Want to get moving on this, even tho the NCAA is too late for this, most likley.

rsagetv99 · #12 03-13-2006, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToonGal

Most importantly, if anyone knows, can I use the XMLTV w/ the Frey DB interchangably? If so, then can take matters into my own hands until they fix it, and always have the option to switch back. Also want both sets of history to be mutually compatible. Assume so w/ Zap2It source info, but you never know.

Not yet, but it is supposed to be in the next release...

Lester Jacobs · #13 03-13-2006, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToonGal

Before I just give up on getting an answer to either question, or for a resolution of the problem overall, I figured I'd take one last stab. Didn't want to have the thread just disappear.

Most importantly, if anyone knows, can I use the XMLTV w/ the Frey DB interchangably? If so, then can take matters into my own hands until they fix it, and always have the option to switch back. Also want both sets of history to be mutually compatible. Assume so w/ Zap2It source info, but you never know.

AM curious to know how Frey does it, because the built-in is SO much more convenient (and useful). Is it just once in advance, or is there is some update system to their process on add'l added info.

Thanks for any feedback. Want to get moving on this, even tho the NCAA is too late for this, most likley.

Try the DigiCasa plugin in the Canadian forum section. It grabs data using ZaptoIt's DataDirect service, it does not use XMLTV at all. Thus the ShowID's, Episode #'s, etc should be exactly the same as the data feed that Frey uses. Thus I assume (though I have not tested this) that one can switch between the DigiCasa plugin and the native Frey feed with impunity.
Even though the DigiCasa plugin is targeted at Canadian users, it actually can grab data for all of North America so US users are covered. Since the plugin uses DataDirect this means that its data is as current as DataDirect's which should translate to more detailed information in the EPG.

Cheers
Lester

ToonGal · #14 03-17-2006, 08:41 AM

Thanks, Lester! Exactly what I was hoping to hear for compatibility. I spent some time trying to configure DigiCasa, but even using SageTV v2.2.8 your installation instructions are a little out of date. I didn't have time to debug it, so restored my initial config. If I take another stab at it, I will make sure to document it thoroughly so others can have a beaten path.

The reason I haven't rushed to do it is good news though. California plays in the NCAA tourney tonight. Had it manually programmed. Five days ago, it had a unique ID with the "TBA" info and I manually set it to record. Two days ago, it had a "0000" ID with absolutely NO information, as it was set to no description. This morning, I woke up with a pleasant surprise, as it actually did have "California" vs. their first victim, so maybe this update thingie is happening (or Frey did something, hopefully???).

Call me crazy, but I think the "0000" part does have something to do with the updating part. But happy to see my beloved team shown on Sage and thought I'd pass it on. Might try DigiCasa again, but time is at a premium during March Madness...

Thanks again for the help, all. Go Cal Bears!

ToonGal · #15 04-15-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lester Jacobs

Try the DigiCasa plugin in the Canadian forum section. It grabs data using ZaptoIt's DataDirect service, it does not use XMLTV at all. Thus the ShowID's, Episode #'s, etc should be exactly the same as the data feed that Frey uses. Thus I assume (though I have not tested this) that one can switch between the DigiCasa plugin and the native Frey feed with impunity.
Even though the DigiCasa plugin is targeted at Canadian users, it actually can grab data for all of North America so US users are covered. Since the plugin uses DataDirect this means that its data is as current as DataDirect's which should translate to more detailed information in the EPG.

Hey Lester!

Thanks for the great suggestion. I tried to get this up and running before I went on my first vacation, but couldn't get it to work. Since Cal was eliminated in the first round, I figured probelm wasn't too important. Now, my Sharks and Suns have made it to the playoffs and the problem has reared its ugly head again. Will probably have to manually get the Sharks games PVR'd on the road to record them. *sigh*

Which brings me to DigiCasa. Lots of installation issues, and I can't figure out if the guide is out of date (from http://www.digicasa.com/prod_sagetv_plugin.htm), I've intalled it incorrectly (unlikely, but possible), or just no longer working. This seems like exactly what I'm looking for, so any help appreciated. I see an active XMLTV how-to thread recreated and think a DigiCasa one would be equally useful. Am more than happy to be your tester (except on vacation from Wed->Tue) and will help you document your product.

Current installation actions:
- Using SageTV v2.2.8, Cayars, all well, except the TBA sports teams

- Have three PVR250 cards installed, all currently using Sage EPG data.
- Using SageTV as a service, w/ SageClient on local HTPC and on two MVP's (w/ Matt plug-in)
- Verified Zap2It access (acct/pw active to 6/06) and channel lineup (all activated for my zip) and looks good
- Updated withay-http.jar, withay-util.jar, and xerces.jar (dated 2004, 2004, and 2003) from DigiCasa_jars.zip (on your site) into C:\Program Files\Java\jre1.5.0_06\lib\ext\
- Extract3ed DigiCasa_zap2it_v1_20.zip contents to C:\Program Files\Frey Technologies\SageTV\ (preserving directory structure, so zap2it\ is a directory parallel in hierarchy to ChannelLogos, STVs\, and webserver\ and zap2itconfig.xml parallel to the .properties files.
- Edited zap2itconfig.xml file to include correct username, pw, and days to 1 (from 2). Made no other changes.
- Added epg/epg_import_plugin=zap2it.Zap2ItImportPlugin to Sage.properties (and even tested on SageClient.properties in case that was it) while SageTV service / client was down
- Restarted Sage Server/Client

Abject failure. Two methods, both same results. First, tried updating the EPG lineup on each card configured.
- Menu: Utils/Apps/Setup >> Setup Menu >> Setup Wizard >> [select PVR250 card] >> EPG Lineup >> Use Programming Guide Data with this Source >> Cable or Satellite >> Enter a New Zip Code >> 00000
Just hangs there with no return and left it for over an hour to verify.

Then, tried removing all tuners from the configuration, then re-adding them, figuring that would be the cleanest solution. Nope. Same problem.

Ideas as to what might be going on / wrong? No rush, as I'll just stick w/ SageTV EPG and manual playoff recordings for now. Might play around w/ v4.x while I have my computer backup and am playful...

Thanks in advance for any help!

Lester Jacobs · #16 04-15-2006, 04:45 PM

Hmmm....can you post the contents of the zap2itdata.log file from the Sage Install directory? This should provide some clues as to what's going on. Also can you try setting number of days to 3 or 4 instead of 1? 1 *might* be dangerous as there might be a bug in my code (I haven't checked) where 1 day may end up downloading nothing at all (not sure if my boundary checking code catches this condition).

Cheers
Lester

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