Wireless MVP should NOT be offered by Sage!

[Jester]

After a month and 105 posts without a solution Sage needs to take down the announcement above that promotes the wireless MVP.

I rarely post negative remarks on forums but I've had it with this "product". It is crap. Yeah, flame me and tell me to get a refund... I don't want a refund, I want the MVP to work as advertised. I want back the endless hours of tweaking that has been stolen from me!

This product includes the necessary media extender connection license to communicate with the SageTV server. Setup is simple and easy; just connect the Media Extender to your TV, setup your wired or wireless network connection and you are ready to go. No additional software or setup required.

This is so far from the truth it isn't funny.


Official Sage tech support response:

Unfortunately I don't have any suggestions for you right now. We are working on fixing these issues as quickly as possible.

Selling a product with KNOWN issues is dishonest!

[_Demo_]

What happens on your mvp? Did you try the latest mvp.bin posted yesterday?

_Demo_

[Jester]

I have tried every mvp that has been throw at me. The results have been the same since I unpackaged the MVP. It works in a wired configuration and blinks at the loading screen in wireless mode with the MVP on the same shelf as the router (6 inches apart and 5 bars).

I'm not saying it isn't my router somehow but it can't be this hard, can it? I have a D-Link DI-634M router. For kicks I downloaded and installed GBPVR since I started this thread and have the exact same issues with it. It's gotta be my system but I am at a loss as to the source of the problem. All I want is a server in my livingroom with a MVP in the bedroom.

Sign me regular Joe out of options.

Here's my wireshark file:


12 0.091205 66.163.171.139 192.168.0.150 POP Response: +OK password required.
13 0.098331 192.168.0.150 66.163.171.139 POP Request: PASS xxxxxxxxx
14 0.210355 66.163.171.139 192.168.0.150 TCP pop3 > 1516 [ACK] Seq=143 Ack=51 Win=65535 Len=0
15 0.515389 66.163.171.139 192.168.0.150 POP Response: +OK maildrop ready, 0 messages (0 octets) (3820695 2147483648)
16 0.518898 192.168.0.150 66.163.171.139 POP Request: STAT
17 0.578626 66.163.171.139 192.168.0.150 POP Response: +OK 0 0
18 0.579767 192.168.0.150 66.163.171.139 POP Request: QUIT
19 0.638268 66.163.171.139 192.168.0.150 POP Response: +OK server signing off.
20 0.638996 66.163.171.139 192.168.0.150 TCP pop3 > 1516 [FIN, ACK] Seq=241 Ack=63 Win=65535 Len=0
21 0.639064 192.168.0.150 66.163.171.139 TCP 1516 > pop3 [ACK] Seq=63 Ack=242 Win=16400 Len=0
22 0.647416 192.168.0.150 66.163.171.139 TCP 1516 > pop3 [FIN, ACK] Seq=63 Ack=242 Win=16400 Len=0
23 0.660157 66.163.171.139 192.168.0.150 TCP pop3 > 1516 [ACK] Seq=242 Ack=64 Win=65535 Len=0
24 5.961141 216.239.63.104 192.168.0.150 TCP http > 1514 [FIN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=0 Win=8190 Len=0
25 5.961258 192.168.0.150 216.239.63.104 TCP 1514 > http [ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=15982 Len=0
26 17.012678 192.168.0.150 216.239.63.104 TCP 1514 > http [FIN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=15982 Len=0
27 17.038500 216.239.63.104 192.168.0.150 TCP http > 1514 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=8190 Len=0
28 21.434398 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 RIPv1 Response
29 36.926729 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
30 36.926843 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
31 36.926889 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
32 36.926933 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.134? Tell 192.168.0.1
33 36.927011 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
34 37.004715 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.222? Tell 192.168.0.1
35 37.070831 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
36 37.075905 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
37 37.088901 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
38 37.346412 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
39 37.350237 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
40 37.353983 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
41 38.476923 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
42 38.481794 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
43 38.487166 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
44 38.564155 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
45 38.816868 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
46 38.997005 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
47 39.002211 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
48 39.049250 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
49 40.204885 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
50 40.209756 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
51 40.215001 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
52 40.373028 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
53 40.526717 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
54 40.531828 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
55 40.544822 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
56 40.724917 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
57 40.730171 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
58 40.851902 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP Discover - Transaction ID 0x1eb7cec4
59 40.859138 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP Offer - Transaction ID 0x1eb7cec4
60 40.865886 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP Request - Transaction ID 0x1eb7cec4
61 40.872758 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP ACK - Transaction ID 0x1eb7cec4
62 40.906505 192.168.0.1 239.255.255.250 SSDP NOTIFY * HTTP/1.1
63 40.940046 192.168.0.220 255.255.255.255 WCCP Unknown WCCP message (1)
64 41.125355 Micro-St_98:34:07 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.220? Tell 192.168.0.134
65 43.120032 192.168.0.220 255.255.255.255 WCCP Unknown WCCP message (1)
66 47.105607 192.168.0.220 255.255.255.255 WCCP Unknown WCCP message (1)
67 50.780626 192.168.0.220 255.255.255.255 UDP Source port: nfsd Destination port: 16891
68 51.433554 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 RIPv1 Response
69 53.152103 68.178.171.146 192.168.0.150 TCP http > 1086 [ACK] Seq=0 Ack=0 Win=6974 Len=0
70 53.152138 192.168.0.150 68.178.171.146 TCP [TCP ZeroWindow] [TCP ACKed lost segment] 1086 > http [ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=0 Len=0
71 81.432795 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 RIPv1 Response
72 97.351093 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP Discover - Transaction ID 0x394b8300
73 97.358328 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP Offer - Transaction ID 0x394b8300
74 97.365201 0.0.0.0 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP Request - Transaction ID 0x394b8300
75 97.372075 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 DHCP DHCP ACK - Transaction ID 0x394b8300
76 97.441997 192.168.0.220 255.255.255.255 UDP Source port: nfsd Destination port: 16881
77 97.897001 192.168.0.220 255.255.255.255 UDP Source port: nfsd Destination port: 16881
78 98.092012 Hauppaug_07:e2:39 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.134? Tell 192.168.0.220
79 106.833640 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.220? Tell 192.168.0.1
80 107.832876 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.220? Tell 192.168.0.1
81 108.832834 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.220? Tell 192.168.0.1
82 109.832780 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.220? Tell 192.168.0.1
83 110.832744 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.220? Tell 192.168.0.1
84 111.431869 192.168.0.1 255.255.255.255 RIPv1 Response
85 111.832723 D-Link_d0:31:59 Broadcast ARP Who has 192.168.0.220? Tell 192.168.0.1

[Stuntman]

Where is this alpha posted??

[Jester]

It's over on page 5 of the blinking MVP thread...

[_Demo_]

Could you post a file version of a log of ethereal running on the server from when you power on the mvp to where it blinks and leave it blink for 1 minute.

Thanks

_Demo_

[Fallen Kell]

I don't see it downloading the mvp.bin file during that log capture.

Two things to check. Did you stop and restart your sagetv service on the computer after copying the new mvp.bin file to the SageTV directory? Can you remove the power plug from the wireless mvp and have it do a full boot? I am not saying you have not done these two things, I am just trying to find out for sure.

Uploading the file of the capture would also allow for better troubleshooting, although I highly recommend doing another capture and that you close all web-browsers, email clients, network games, p2p services, etc., on the sagetv system before starting the capture (basically anything that would use the network other then the sage). This will help speed up being able to read through and analize the data.

[roxy99]

I don't know why everyone is so obsessed these days with wireless. Are people to lazy to fish wires and do a little spackling of their walls? Really, just get a WIRED MVP and you won't regret it.

I have never been more satisfied with a product then with SageTV. The only mistake Sage makes is it tries too hard to innovate at the expense of de-bugging. Sage needs to take its time more before trying to introduce new features. Also, the user must realize that it tester-beware when trying a new beta. Use the latest commercial release for improved stability.

[InvisiblePin]

I can understand your frustration, and I don't blame you for your problems. You may indeed have a hardware/sofware set up that is difficult to get working with the Sage Media extender. I did have some bumps along the way, but was fortunately able to get through them.

However, I feel like this product has given me what I have been searching for ever since I started playing around in the PVR arena. My playback is smooth and clear. Recordings are perfect, the guide is nice, I just love it. I take my wireless unit downstairs when I exercise and bring it back up when I'm done. It works great.

For what I'm looking for this product is awesome. I plan on buying another unit in the future so I can just leave them both plugged in, and so my wife and I don't fight when I try to take it downstairs with me.

[Jester]

I'll make a full scan tonight. I clipped off the first part because it listed what I thought was sensitive data like my password.


Let me ask a dumb question - Does the Sage Service have to be running? I always have Sage running with live tv on the main box, thinking that was enough. Should I be running the service too/instead? Is that causing my issues?

Again, I have live tv playing on the local pc that has Sage loaded on it. I am trying to kick off the wireless MVP from a remote tv.




roxy99,
Nice try but there is no way to do what you suggest in my house. Nor would I want to hack it up even if I could fish the wires up a floor (my house is too valuable). I am not lazy. Sage offers the product so I want to use it. BTW - where does it say that wireless MVP is beta? ...but it FEELS like Beta.

[Jester]

I see issues with the DI-624 router on the net. If I were to go out and get a new router, which one do you suggest? I have all D-link stuff now.

[PshThLimit]

I'm by no means an expert but a quick look at your log shows 192.168.0.1 in combination with 2 different subnet mask (255.255.255.255 & 239.255.255.250) I'm not too sure whats going on there. Also all the ARP request looks like its having a hard time resolving DCHP handling for your wireless device.

Are you using a multi router setup?

I had a similar issue when I added a wireless router to my already wired network. You have to make sure only one router is handling the DCHP assignments.

Some more information about how your hardware is configured may gleen the info someone needs to help you.

--Edit--
1. I found out that 239.255.255.250 is reserved for the SSPD, so that's probably not an issure.

2. I read up on your router. Are you using any of the filters? MAC or IP filters?
If you are try disabling those and see if you can connect the wireless.

[mayamaniac]

I think PshThLimit is on the right track, your router setup is the problem. If you have no idea how to set up a router or have no idea what is wrong, maybe turn on remote access, usually port 8080, and someone knowledgable here will help you figure it out. Then once things are working, you can disable the remote access.

[Fallen Kell]

I really do not know if you need to have both the sagtv service running if you have an instance of the sagetv gui itself running on the server. I personnally run sagetv as a service, so it is something that you can try.

Could you also give an overview of all the main devices on your network? Mine is a follows:

[PGPfan]

Hi Jester,

I can feel your pain trying to get the wireless working. Fortunately I can run wired everywhere I need an extender.

I know it would cost a little more, but you might want to consider THIS which is a 'powerline' network adapter that is specifically designed to stream HD and audio over the powerline. All other examples of this I've seen work for networking, but NOT for streaming media. This 'may' be the solution you (and others with limited wiring access problems) have been looking/waiting for.

I don't have one myself, but it looks VERY promising!

-PGPfan

[stevech]

Originally Posted by PshThLimit

I'm by no means an expert but a quick look at your log shows 192.168.0.1 in combination with 2 different subnet mask (255.255.255.255 & 239.255.255.250) I'm not too sure whats going on there. Also all the ARP request looks like its having a hard time resolving DCHP handling for your wireless device.

Are you using a multi router setup?

I had a similar issue when I added a wireless router to my already wired network. You have to make sure only one router is handling the DCHP assignment

If you have a wired LAN with a router, then to add wireless (802.11) either (a) buy an access point and connect it to your existing router or (b) run your wireless router as an access point. Some (like Buffalo) have a physical switch to go to Access Point (AP) mode. But most any w-router can behave as an AP by doing this: Connect the W-router to your PC's LAN port by some means, or get your PC to wirelessly connect to the web pages in the W-Router. Now: Set the SSID. Disable the DHCP server in the w-Router. Setup the WEP/WPA security options. Set the W-Router's IP address to some address that your wired LAN router will not use for DHCP. Now reboot/connect the W-Router which is now an AP. Cheaper than buying an AP.

[Jnetty99]

Originally Posted by Jester

I see issues with the DI-624 router on the net. If I were to go out and get a new router, which one do you suggest? I have all D-link stuff now.

I can't get wMediaMVP to work with a Dlink DI-614+ router wireless, but it works wired. All you see is "loading application". It works correctly with Another non D-Link router.

So the issue is the router, but what is my question? What needs to be modified, I have placed the router on the default settings and still doesnt work.

Maybe the problem that the DI-614+ has is also your problem with the DI-624.

[Fallen Kell]

Well, for the "wireless" part of it, at the consumer level, you will be hard pressed to beat the Linksys WRT54GX SRX wireless router. The "routing" part of it isn't so great (but then again, none of the Linksys "routers" are really good at "routing", their throughput are horrendous from Lan -> Wan and Wan -> Lan connections compaired to good implementations... but then again, they were designed on the principle that most home users do not have more then a 6mbps connection to the net).

Anyway, the reason I say this product is for its wireless. It has one of the best ranges out of the box and one of the most "stable" throughput for a wireless connection avaible to the average consumer. It will cost you though at around $130-150, so it is a pricy option. It also can not act as a wireless-ethernet bridge or in AP mode, so features wise, it is lacking compaired to other routers as well at that premium price. The reason I suggest it is due to it stable wireless throughput, something that most other products do not offer.

See Tom's Hardware for some benchmarks:

Router Performance Charts (please note this is focused on "routing" not wireless):
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/lans_r...html?chart=119

SRX's wireless performance tests:
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/0...4gx/page8.html

Compair against the Netgear Rangemax 240 that is at the top of all the "routing" charts:
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2006/0...834/page5.html

Please note the "minimum throughput" as this is an EXTREMELY important number when dealing with streaming multimedia. For the Netgear, the minimums hit 4.3mbps even at very close locations. This router's wireless performance has HUGE drops multiple times each minute. This does not do well for an application that needs to have a constant 12mbps connection for smooth audio/video. The Linksys on the other hand never dropped below 29.4mbps for those same locations.

Again, take a look at the charts, but also take it with the knowledge that you need good wireless throughput, which is not measured on the top router charts...

802.11n is also just around the corner with some products out there already (although they are not using the finalized standard, just the current 802.11n design docs). Grant it, this won't help for the G device, but it is something to keep in mind.

Personally, I wouldn't buy the Linksys SRX. I would get exactly what I have, which is either a WRT54GL or an older rev of the WRT54G (hardware version v2 or v3 if availible, v4 was a step down in processing power, and v5 is a crippled device, and unfortunately the one in production so you need to look at it in the box to know what version it is, the latest is crap, so if you can't figure out what version it is, don't get it and just get a WRT54GL, which is pretty much a WRT54G v4 hardware, just priced more because it costs more to make then the v5 hardware). But I am not like most consumers. I am a systems admin, and do this for a living. I don't mind ripping things apart, flashing the firmware to a non-standard one and doing detailed configurations because I know how to do all that. For those that don't know how to do that, well the price you pay is the extra $80 it will cost to get a SRX...

I also have a hard time recommending a D-Link just from experience. I can't say if the router really is your problem or not. If you have a spare wireless router sitting around go try it. Although most normal people wouldn't have one (I do, actually I have 4, but as I have said, I am not like most people...)

[hemicuda]

If the box has that Easy Setup Pushbutton feature listed you can probably bet it's the newer, crappier firmware. I think I remember reading that the TX power was crippled in the v5 boxes as well.

[Fallen Kell]

Originally Posted by hemicuda

If the box has that Easy Setup Pushbutton feature listed you can probably bet it's the newer, crappier firmware. I think I remember reading that the TX power was crippled in the v5 boxes as well.

The pushbutton was added in v4 hardware, so it could be a v4 as well. But yes, the TX power was lessened in v5 hardware. Again, the v5 hardware is pure crap. Buy the WRT54GL if you don't know for a fact that it is older pre-v5 hardware. It will cost you ~$10-15 more, but at least you know you have options (you can load other firmware, DD-WRT, Seasoft, EWRT, etc., etc., to gain new features like vlan support, ipchain firewalls, bridge mode, enhanced DHCP controls, DNS server capabilities, NTP server capabilities, etc., etc...). This basically is what makes this the good choice, because you can literally do everything you could want for a small network on one of these devices, that is assuming you know what you want to do and understand the technologies (this is why Cisco doesn't typically sell their products to home users, because if you don't have several hours of training on how to use their devices, you wouldn't know what to do...).