Zap2It's poor quality

[DaveK]

As a SageTV user for the past 2 years, I've noted a decline in EPG data quality over this past year.

The problems fall into one or more of several categories I've outlined towards the end of this posting.

In each instance where an error or omission is occurring with the Tribune Media Services/Zap2It data, a check of the TVGuide.com website _always_ provides correct information.

In talking with local broadcast engineering staff I know, they indicate that they have been trying for years to provide TMS with electronic schedule data, but that TMS management is not interested. The few times they've gotten a lower level TMS staff person interested in the project, that TMS staffer has ultimately left the company.

TMS is taking their data from broadcaster's websites (or previously by paper submissions) and entering into their own database. Whether they have an automated, or semi-automated method of parsing data from hundreds of differing websites, or whether they are hand keying the data is unknown.

The broadcaster's scheduling software are databases in their own right, and are generally off the shelf solutions which could easily provide _correct_ information to the likes of TMS, should they be interested in improving their product's quality.

Here are the types of issues I've noted:

1.) Incorrect guide data. Simple enough... EPG describes one show, yet something completely different aired. Where I've noted this most often is with the local PBS station(s), and is NOT due to last minute changes in the programming schedule. These are shows scheduled weeks in advance, TV Guide and the local broadcaster's websites are always correct.

2.) Incomplete guide data. Some program's contain generic descriptions, no unique show ID (i.e. ending in 0000), and an invalid original air date.

One show that started showing up this way about a month ago is 'Friends' which the local "CW" affiliate is airing twice daily and each show is simply described as "Six friends living in New York hang out at a coffee bar".

Another recent example was a multi-part series on PBS, yet for each of the parts, TMS had identical description's and no unique ShowID. As a result, Sage only captured one of the many parts and missed the series.

3.) Rerun's tagged as first run with new episode ID's assigned. Recent examples of this occurred last week with the Conan O'Brian show. Although Conan was on vacation, and and old episodes were being aired, the shows were all tagged as 1st run with new show ID's and 'original air dates' matching last week's air date(s).

Another example was the most recent Dateline NBC, to catch a predator show that aired Saturday (10/28). Although this show was a rerun, here again it was given a new ShowID, tagged as First Run, and the Original Air date was 10/28/06. TMS got it wrong, and TV Guide got it right.

4.) Recurring episodes contain varying descriptions and may or may not contain different episode ID's, even though information like 'origional air date' are the same and correct. The difference is enough that Sage will go ahead and re-record an already 'watched' program.



As TMS also provides guide data to TiVO (is that a bad word here?), defects in their guide data are affecting large numbers of consumers.

Attempts to contact TMS to address these matters elict no response, so apparently they are not concerned with factually correct observations from an end data consumer. Perhaps Sage staffer's are in a better position to demand a better quality product from their EPG provider.

[FZ1]

I've also noticed each of the probelms you've listed above, and it's very annoying. I wonder what can be done about it?

[teedublu]

We see these things too. Most recent pain was loosing Lost Episode 19, because the EPG said it was a rerun. Several days after the fact, the EPG was still reporting it as a rerun. (we're on Comcast in the DC / Baltimore metro area)

TW

[FZ1]

There are quite a few programs that Zap2It consistently shows incorrect "first run/rerun" info for in my area (Comcast San Jose, CA - Extended Basic). TVGuide.com always shows them correctly. It results in extra recordings of watched episodes, and missed recordings of new episodes.

A few that come to mind...
The Ultimate Fighter
Pride Fighting Championships
The Apprentice
The Bachelor

There's a presidential debate on Fox News tonight that doesn't even show on Zap2It's listings, but TVGuide.com (again) shows it correctly.

It's too bad the EPG needs to be babysat like this. If Sage pays for Zap2It's services, I wonder if they've got any clout?

I guess I'll leave them some feedback, but I won't hold my breath. http://mserv.zap2it.com/zeebee_feedback and feedback@zap2it.com

[FZ1]

I'm sorry to say Zap2It's inaccuracy has become the biggest annoyance I have with Sage. It's killing the WAF. What good is a DVR if it doesn't know what shows are airing?

There's been no improvement on the shows I listed in my previous post, and problems have now extended to just about every mma program on Versus. The airing titles are usually correct, but the EPG reports every airing as a new episode that hasn't been watched/recorded. Setting sage to "detect non-unique airing ID's" skips 1st runs.

The airings are always listed correctly on tvguide.com. Could Sage choose to get their data from them?

[Fluffdaddy]

Zap2It's "inaccuracy" is not a huge problem with me. The only channel that I notice that is consistently wrong is the *G4/TechTV/ZDTV/C|NET-TV channel with their "first run/rerun" info.

Over all I'm happy with Zap2It, I'm guessing they are right on the money 98% of the time in both Canada and the USA guide info. That's not bad in anybodies book

*How many time can a channel change its name?

[FZ1]

I'm sure most users enjoy the same accuracy as you do, given most of what they record airs on the channels Zap2It reports correctly. If they didn't, this thread would be a lot longer. Must be nice.

Now imagine if most of your favorites aired on G4, TechTV, ZDTV, or C-NET-TV. Would you still rate them at 98% accurate for US/Canada? You'd then be in my world of regularly needing to compare "upcoming recordings" to tvguide.com to get the right episodes recorded.

Most of my favorites air on Versus and SpikeTV, which seem to be some of the "less important" channels to Zap2It.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by FZ1

There's been no improvement on the shows I listed in my previous post

Did you contact SageTV or just report it to Zap2it? There is no guarantee that Zap2it would fix the data, but you are probably better off reporting the issues to SageTV, since they pay for the data.

- Andy

[FZ1]

Done, thanks Andy.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by FZ1

I'm sure most users enjoy the same accuracy as you do, given most of what they record airs on the channels Zap2It reports correctly. If they didn't, this thread would be a lot longer. Must be nice.

Now imagine if most of your favorites aired on G4, TechTV, ZDTV, or C-NET-TV. Would you still rate them at 98% accurate for US/Canada? You'd then be in my world of regularly needing to compare "upcoming recordings" to tvguide.com to get the right episodes recorded.

Most of my favorites air on Versus and SpikeTV, which seem to be some of the "less important" channels to Zap2It.

FYI: My cable box displays a guide from TVGuide and I notice a bigger problem there then with Zap2IT. Two movies with the same name playing currently are always wrong on the STB guide from TVGuide but I go to SageTV to get the correct version of the movie playing. Also when the premium channel has decided to change when they air a movie - the TVGuide STB listing has it incorrectly listed but SageTV is correct. So long story short I'm glad I don't have your problem. The biggest complaint I have with BOTH guides is the very brief description some shows display.

[FZ1]

Wow, you're experience is opposite mine. I wonder if your STB's guide matches tvguide.com, which is always accurate for the shows I record.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by FZ1

Wow, you're experience is opposite mine. I wonder if your STB's guide matches tvguide.com, which is always accurate for the shows I record.

Never visited their site but you are probably right. The cable box probably gets the cheapest listing available plus you have to put up with the adds as well .

[CollinR]

I have Tulsa, OK Cox communications, it is jack up pretty regularly. The start/end times seem to be the most common errors. Really irritating as it often causes Sage to stop recording before the show is over.

MXC on Spike TV has no description half the time, it could be the same show over and over for all I know.

Rarely is it totally incorrect, ie not the listed program. Usuallly it's just the start/end times and the lack of description.


SageTV is totally dependent on the EGP listings, if thats inaccurate the entire TV side fails in one way or another.

[FidgetyRat]

For the most part my EPG is fairly accurate. I have an incorrect recording once a month or so where it says one episode will air but something completely different gets recorded.

Most recently though, as posted in another topic the entire new season of south park has no episode information, and refuses to ever update. The episode info is available online, just not int he EPG so now my upcoming recordings list will have 10 "SouthPark" episodes that I cannot tell apart and causes nothing but confusion..

I think they are giving up on us...

[Alfiegerner]

Out of interest, does anyone from the U.S.A or Canada use xmltv for their epg info? Do xmltv feeds even exist for North America?

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Alfiegerner

Out of interest, does anyone from the U.S.A or Canada use xmltv for their epg info? Do xmltv feeds even exist for North America?

Schedules Direct can provide you xmltv feeds for both US and Canada. There's a small fee involved to get that though. $20/year

Schedules Direct


Gerry